Marcio Kabke Pinheiro

If Panasonic somehow figured out the AF issues, in my view the S5 could be a hit. For exactly the same reasons that the A7 III was - not the best in any area, but a very good balance for most users with a good price in the segment.

The huge size of the S1 line was a downside for many people (albeit, with good reason, praised by a lot of other people). This was solved. If ony Pansonic could release less HUGE lenses...

3 hours ago, sanveer said:

I hope that there is a GH6. Which would assure M43 and All Panasonic users that Panasonic didn't abandon its users, Well Before the whole Olympus fiasco happened. It takes atleast a few years 2-5), to plan and develop the next camera. If the GH6 is released and priced at $,2500, it would be a Monumental Disaster. People will find it difficult to justify pricing a M43 sensor camera higher than a FF sensor camera. Especially if it doesn't have RAW video. 

Hence all the talking about "high frame rates". 2500 for a general camera, yes. But for a, let's say, 4k240 fps and 6k120fps camera? Maybe.

Size comparison with the G9 made by Apotelyt:

As I said before, always thought that if any other m43 camera would be released, would be a GH6. Now I have some doubts, with the possibilty or form.

First, about the state of m43 as a system. After the Olympus news, nothing new - the E-M10 IV was already on the way, was not a new camera. Long ago a GX10 rumor saying that it would be released in the first half of 2020 - nothing. The JIP deal is still under wraps. The future is cloudy - and if JIP don't have the wish to continue the Olympus business, I think that Panasonic will not put much money on it - very few new lenses, if any, probably specialized like the 10-25 zoom - or even keep supporting alone the format.

Second, the IR interview. Panasonic said very clearly that wants L-mount to be a standard mount for video. About m43 - lots of "evaluating where to go with the development", and talking about telephoto / supertelephoto / high frame rate.

The "H" in the GH stands for "Hybrid" - hence, they were targeted as hybrid cameras, good for video and stills. Alwways was the case since the GH1, but the GH5s breaks the mold, and this assumption could not be right anymore.

Now I have two views for the future:

- The S5 is the new GH6 - the body looks VERY like the GH5, specially the top plate scheme. Almost the same tech specs - and probably if anything is not there, Panasonic could say "get the S1H";

- The GH6 will be a specialized high frame rate little monster - 4k120p no crop, 6k60p. Maybe they get the GH5s route and make a video only focused model, with a 6k sensor, and some new and unique features, to justify an almost certain price increase, around the $2500 mark.

And I doubt that we will se a GH7.

On 8/29/2020 at 11:04 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Some terribly cynical opportunism and profane language from whoever was stood near you when that Ferrari ran off the road there.

Binotto?

(considering their performance on Spa...)

On 8/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, Trek of Joy said:

I bet this is the lower priced rumor, the $3499 camera. IMO, its Canon's response to Blackmagic and Zcam, with superior EF lens integration and DPAF. There's easily room above this with a no-limits version capturing internal raw and tiers using the R5/R6 FF sensors. The form factor is more appealing to me over the C1/2/3/500's, but still looks bulky. The only Canon I'll buy is an R5/R6 without all the fake issues. 

Chris

For me it is the Komodo response. Canon never bothered with Blackmagic or Zcam. And with lower priced cameras.

Yep, got the leaked size / weight of the S5, compared to the GH5:

GH5 - 138.5x98.1x87.4 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion) - weight 724 with battery and sd card), 645g body only
S5 - 132.6 x 97.1 x 81.9mm (excluding protrusions) - weight 714g (with battery and sd card), 630g body only

5 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

Little Photoshop size comparison between this and the S1H. Quite smaller !

Holy shit, I thought that the scales were wrong, played with the file in Gimp but they are right.

Made a VERY crude size comparison with the GH5 (got a size comparison between the S1 and GH5 in Camerasize, and used the S1 mount as size reference - sorry for the quality) and...looks like that it is even smaller than the GH5.

 

It resembles VERY MUCH a GH5. Reinforces my opinion that a GH6 might not exist...

Only me, or the S5 resembles VERY MUCH a GH5, especially on the top plate?

Panasonic interview in Imaging Resource: https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2020/08/20/panasonic-interview-covid-development-full-frame-micro-four-thirds

"Mr. Yamane: Yes, we believe L-mount is a highly optimum mount for video shooting. And so going forward, we'd like to make L-mount a standard of the video shooting industry. Within the alliance, we'd like to discuss how to strengthen our video performance, and make it a kind of a standard for the video shooting world.

DE: You hope L-mount could maybe become like the PL-mount, so very popular.

Mr. Yamane: Yes. Yeah, this is my personal hope, that L-mount could be the standard format for video shooting."

About m43:

"For telephoto or super-telephoto, maybe we should go with the Micro Four Thirds, which makes a more compact package with high-zoom. So we are studying the future development plan, including Micro Four Thirds."

"Mr. Yamane: We introduced the S-series of full-frame cameras, and we target high picture quality with the S-series. However, there is some video footage which only Micro Four Thirds can realize, in terms of optimum depth of field, mobility, zoom ratio and so on. So Micro Four Thirds is also a precious asset for us to cover video shooting needs. The GH-series has been already used by lots of videographers, and it is used for high-end video shooting by one-man operations. So without fail, by using the GH, customers can make very attractive footage using the characteristics of Micro Four Thirds. We are now studying how we are going to evolve GH series going forward, [to make the most of its advantages].

DE: Hai. (Yes)

Mr. Yamane: Thanks to Micro Four Thirds' smaller sensor size, it is good for high-speed response; high frame-rate video"

For me, looks like that video would be all in L-Mount, and m43 would be for niche formats.

(before calling me m43 hater - I ONLY have m43 cameras)

4 hours ago, Asmundma said:

A lot of people are is pissed about the R5 crippling, I could understand if you don’t have a Cx00 camera. If you have, your investment would be more or less lost. Thats the reason Canon did this firmware crippling. Actually it make sense, like it or not. So please stop this stupid arguing about the marketing, Use your logical sense Then this is 100% as expected. 

I guess that people that uses Cxx cameras value such more thing than recording specs. Form factor, abudance of hands-on controls, better thermal management (even without the R5 crippling)...

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Or maybe we are a niche who don't make them the extra billions they are targeting so fuck us.

 

Unfortunately, maybe it is the case. In the stills foruns that I look, people are giving a damn about the issue and just wanting to know when they could buy it.

Only chance is a class action suit - japanese people do not like that kind of thing.

7 hours ago, sanveer said:

Yes, true. I am curious what the % improvement in battery life will be. 

My point is: there will be a GH6? Using GH5 compatible batteries is a good incentive for switching...

I always thought that, if Panasonic would release a new MFT camera, would be the GH6. But with no "rumors" flowing, no MFT news since the 10-25 f/1.7...maybe there will not be one.

5 hours ago, sanveer said:

It probably indicated that the GH6 has not been abandoned and is on track. Also, that it's battery life will be improved, compared to the current battery, without  change in size. 

Or, since a FF camera could use the old GH5 batteries, that the S5 is the GH6.

Hope that Andrew do a very good test with the AF. Still skeptical about the DFD - but if the somehow manage to make it work, it would be amazing.

One question about the DFD in L mount: it works with all L-mount lenses, or it is like in m4/3, that it only works with Panasonic lenses and not with Olympus ones?

Just saw the last blog post from @Andrew Reid - NOW I'm curious. 🙂

The plot thickens.

Best case: there are more than one temperature probe; the API is reading the CPU temp and the EXIF data is internal temp. Hence, you have an failed documented API.

Worst case: a class action lawsuit ready to win.

Towerjazz used a Nikon Z image in one of their reports, leading to believe that the Z6 or the Z7 have a Towerjazz sensor. If this is the case, could be a good alternative.

But very interesting report about the security market size. Yeah, that is what could bring a new MFT sensor.

Just to correct (a little) my previous assumptions - I had only saw the pictures of the dissassembly, not the video. Now I saw the video, and there is a metal part between the smaller PCB board and the mainboard, where the thermal pads makes contact.

If this metal part had a heatpipe to draw the heat away, the problem could be minimized. IF the problem is really heat...

Just now, Andrew Reid said:

The main problem is the PCB circuit board on top of the CPU, sandwiched between that and the back casing.

It is utterly lunatic design or (more likely) on purpose.

The main CPU should have a thermal pad on top and direct contact to the chassis.

It is akin to Nvidia putting a second PCB on top of their graphics processor so it doesn't get into contact with the heat sink, and then telling gamers "sorry but your 2080 Ti only works for 20 mins of 4K Monster Hunter World then you have to go to 720p")

I find it hard to believe any engineer would be happy with this layout. The simplicity of the physics, your average 10 year old would understand. Even I understand that if I don't put my Intel CPU in direct thermal contact with a heat sink in my PC, it gets too hot.

So Canon can bleat on about using the magnesium alloy case as a heat sink all day long but they didn't implement it that way.

The big question is why.

Yeap, exactly my point. As I said, I have some electronics background, and a 2nd year student would never make that mistake. CPU and memory with a thermal pad to conduct the heat...to another board? And when you have a big heat spreader just behind the main board, but put the chips in the other side?

It is on purpose, or they have the dumbest engineers in the world.

2 hours ago, jessedacri said:

 

Please also ask them why they decided it was necessary in the 1DX II to put a heatpipe/heatsink in but they are doing less than the bare minimum in the R5 where the camera is marketed with professional video features, in a market segment with competition delivering reliable professional video features (S1H and A7sIII). This quote from canon themselves is damning - why did they not feel the same need they did then, instead opting to release two pages of overheating documentation and ship a crippled product with clear-as-day poorly designed hardware?

 

 

 

The "fun" part is that THIS heat pipe could be implemented in the R5  - I has never saw the picture above, never would thought that a heatpipe this small could work. A similar approach could work in the R5 - a thin metallic shield in contact with the chips with thermal pads, and this heatpipe conducting the heat to the bottom plate (it just have to avoid the connector for the board that sits above the mainboard).

Than you make the bottom plate with two "floors" (like the heat spreader on the Sigma FP1), with a gap in the middle to help in ventilation and to prevent the bottom to be very hot to touch.

Still in the engineering regard...the drawing of the internal heat spreader of the A7SIII looks VERY similar to the on in the R5. Maybe it is a common way to make cameras?

Yeah, everything in this case is VERY strange.

I will go back to the pics of the camera internals (I was an electronic technician ages ago, but our @BTM_Pix could give a much more helpful opinion): or these pics are false, or I missed something, or Canon engineers made mistakes that a newbie electronic student would not do.

First: the two thermal pads, besides not covering the CPU, are completely useless. According to the pics, above the mainboard there is another smaller board; hence the thermal pads did not conduct the heat to a spreader, but to ANOTHER BOARD?

Second: looks like that a big metal spreader exists BEHIND the main board, with a single pad. Canon is trying to dissipate the heat this way? It would be the most inneficient method to do it. If they wanted that structure (the 9th picture in the article) to serve as a heatsink, the CPU and the memory chips should be mounted in the other side of the mainboard. It is utterly stupid.

The hipotesis that the pictures could have something wrong is because of the first pic, that shows the back of the back panel of the camera. The gray part looks like magnesium, and there are some "squares" there that looks like to fit some chips on the board, but it is completely different from the smaller board that goes over the mainboard. The rest seems legit - but completely absurd engineering.

To solve this, using that big metal part as a heat spreader, they should kind of flip the board layout, but mantaining the actual connectors in each side. This means a completely new desgined mainboard - and it is not the best solution, that metal structure is closer to the sensor, and the heat could bring noise to the sensor.

Don't see to much room for a heatpipe to conduct the heat to the bottom of the camera (the best solution on my view).

If this pictures are real, it is one of the must dumb designs ever.

On 8/9/2020 at 12:45 AM, Emanuel said:

The way you elaborated your thinking much well structured BTW and you finish worried with Netflix... : D

Man, how on earth would they or anyone refuse anything properly exposed from and with this camera?!

; )

 

In Portuguese from Brazil: "Não tem como!" né? @Márcio Kabke Pinheiro ;- )

"Não tem como" buy a Red camera in Brazil, with the import taxes and general vendors greed.

A Komodo will probably cost more than a full equipped SUV here.

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Bride : Did you have any prior warning that it might be prone to overheating and not being able to record for more than a few minutes ?

Film maker : Absolutely not, no.

The Internet: 

 

Priest: "If any of you has a reason why these two should not be married, speak now or forever hold your peace." 

Film maker: "WAIT THIS PEACE OF SHIT IS OVERHEATING!"

Bride to groom: "See? I said to you to use a lighter fabric in your clothes"