IronFilm

8 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

 

I'm reading this in a hurry...

What does it means? In 4K prores raw i will have an extra 1.4 crop after the 2x crop of M43?

It's raw. So of course you can't be using the full sensor with a scale down applied. Nah, raw means a crop of the sensor if you're not recording the full resolution. 

1 minute ago, PPNS said:

its a spec to brag about rather than being truly useful. Ive not used any previous gh series cameras, but they were probably already fairly easy to match to a ‘better’ camera if shot in a 10bit 422 (or higher) mode. 

There is a big difference between "easy" vs a seamless integration into workflow (as professionals would demand). 

25 minutes ago, PPNS said:

i have fantastic news: the a35 has log c4, which is quite different from c3. so you have to put in the same work as before if you want to match the cameras. it’s strange that panasonic licensed log c3 imo when Arri is abandoning it for something newer.

ugh! Maybe that was why ARRI was willing to give it away... 

Only people using older (non ARRI 35) cameras would be wanting it???

20 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

And now having seen what the GH7 is, yes indeed, this combo would tick every box for me other than very occasionally, but enough times to warrant one, throwing in something even wider for the full frame stills.

The Olympus 7-14mm f/2.8 or Panasonic 8-18mm f/2.8-4 lenses are not to your tastes?? 

Ahhh... that makes kinda sense, maybe their supply of them was very limited. So they had ones there to share, but not enough to hand out to everyone. So some people (such as Gerald....) only got their copies to play with a couple of weeks later (or an even longer wait). 

12 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

A caveat to note is that the LogC3 can only be used in the compressed formats and that it is still only Vlog-L that is available in ProRes RAW.

With it having ProRes HQ 4:2:2, this is likely not a massive drawback. Especially, of course, if you are a Resolve user and don’t want the extra transcoding step anyway.

 

Not a big deal, as I bet a tonne of ARRI shooters who are using the GH7 with LogC3 as a supplementary camera would only want it to be in ProResHQ and not anything else anyway. 

7 minutes ago, zlfan said:

this is big wish and fits well with the video shooting. 

dreaming big! dreams are free

1 minute ago, zlfan said:

interesting, if c400 can do s16 4k raw, it will be better than gh7, as c400 has built in nd filters. yeh, the price tag is 4 times, guess related to 4 nd filters. lol. 

Not 100% if it is 4K at S16??? Would have to double check that, I just remember noticing it had a S16 mode for the C400

4 hours ago, zlfan said:

I think an even more impactful cam is something like s5 iii with a 6k full Frame and a dci 4k s35 crop prores raw arri log c3. this is like a Alexa 35 at $2500, plus a Alexa lf when in full Frame mode. that 15 stop dr is nice, that highlight rolloff is unique, but a $2500 cam can do 95% of a mini lf and an Alexa 35. this is what a new cam should be, just like 5d3ml in 2015, r1mx in 2009. 

I bet the "S2H" will be "ARRI Certified" (and maaybe they'll bring it to the S5IIX as well) 

4 hours ago, zlfan said:

gh7 still has advantage over gh6, as gh7 can record prores raw, and has better dr. so gh7 can match to Alexa even easier. 

For sure! But for people who are already owners of a GH6 (and sometimes shoot with ARRI), then this is an awesome upgrade without needing to buy an entirely new camera. 

3 hours ago, mercer said:

At the risk of sounding contradictory, with further thought, I find the GH7 release to be a bit... cynical... for lack of a better word. In less than a year, the S2H will be released with similar and/or better features. Is Panasonic just trying to get one last bit out of m4/3 and the unsold GH6 parts before  they discontinue the entire m4/3 division?

The S2H will fairly likely cost roughly double what the GH7 costs. (especially if the GH7 is starting to see a few discounts by the time the S2H finally arrives, say if it might even just dip under $2K: $1,999)

3 hours ago, mercer said:

When you add the, out of left field, LogC aspect, is it possible that Panasonic is purchasing Arri like Nikon purchased Red and Panasonic is cleaning shop to release an entirely new division/lineup of cameras?

I very very very highly doubt they'll buy ARRI (but hey, the RED purchase was a shock too!)

3 hours ago, zlfan said:

there are some s16 lenses with pl mount, and 2/3 lenses, they can be adapted to m43 mount. gh7 can do dci 4k prores raw hq 60p s16. with a good s16 lens like Zeiss 10-100mm, it is very powerful. right now there is not many good s16 digital cinema cameras. 

Add now the Canon C400 to that list!!

4 hours ago, mercer said:

I will be curious to see where the GH series goes from here. This seems like an apex for m4/3. You can only assume that the GH8 will be GH8K, and I'd love to see a GHX eventually, but I'm not sure it will have the legs to last that long. 

The GH8 could keep everything exactly the same about the GH7 (not even adding 8K), but gives us four stage internal NDs (or perhaps eND) and a SDI BNC (or mini-SDI??) output with zero delay (and an independent full size HDMI output) and it would sell like hotcakes. 

Or maybe this could be called a "Panasonic GH7S"??? (a MFT camera inside a beefy "S2H body"???)

4 hours ago, mercer said:

But once again, the problem with the GH series of cameras and flagship m4/3 cameras, in general, is the cost. Although $2200 is a reasonable price for the features you're getting, for me, it only makes sense if you're going all in and getting the 32bit audio unit and the LogC key... at that point... after you add a lens or two, you're looking at 3-4 grand... and then you're in R5C, Z8 territory... but then if you go that route and get lenses for those systems, you're in C70 or Komodo territory. It's a never ending game of upselling that I just can't justify for a hobby.

I think you need to initially ignore lenses when looking at costs, as it isn't right to compare camera body + lenses with just a camera body from the competition (such as a Z8)

The next step afterwards, is you then compare camera body plus lenses VS camera body plus lenses of the competition. 

MFT tends to win here, with cheaper lenses. 

And if looking at camera systems, then even with the paid upgrades you're looking at:

R5C = $3.6K

FX3 = $3.7K

FX30 = $1.6K

XH2S = $2.5K

From this perspective, the GH7 and $2.2K (or $2.4K) looks very good. Heaps cheaper than the FF competition, and very comparable to the APS-C / S35 competition. 

You add on the audio adapter accessory for any of these and it is another $400+, very comparable indeed to the $499 for the Panasonic DMW-XLR2

So all in all, I think the Panasonic GH7 is priced very comparable or even sharper than the competition is. 

If you're at this budget bracket. (unfortunately I'm at the GH4/G85 price point, and I already have one!)

15 hours ago, EspenB said:

I think its pretty certain that both the S9 and the GH7 was shown and handed out at the Lumix press junket in Osaka.

From the people I follow, I feel certain about this. 

But I suspect the GH7 was perhaps not quite ready back then. So they couldn't talk about it during / immediately after the trip. 

23 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

2. how does arri c log make this better? 

Makes it very easy to fit in with established workflows using ARRI cameras. (if that's not your world, then it's much less of a big deal this particular announcement) 

17 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Official certification by ARRI is surprising indeed!

If anything can cause an explosion in seeing Panasonic mirrorless on film sets I work on, it would be THIS! 

Would instantly make the GH7 the #1 choice for crash cam / B Cam / etc, anything that needs very awkward mounting, such as mounting a camera for a shower scene or riding a motorbike or a snorricam. 

Ohhhhh.... it will be available for the GH6 too!!!

In addition, ARRI LogC3 recording can also be used on the LUMIX GH6 in the same way as the LUMIX GH7 by using the Software Upgrade Key DMW-SFU3A, with the exemption of the REAL TIME LUT function which is not available on this model.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/05/panasonic-lumix-gh7-internal-prores-raw-recording-32-bit-float-audio-recording-arri-logc3/ 

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Thats quite the surprise.

The handheld Alexa dream finally realised ?

Official certification by ARRI is surprising indeed!

If anything can cause an explosion in seeing Panasonic mirrorless on film sets I work on, it would be THIS! 

Would instantly make the GH7 the #1 choice for crash cam / B Cam / etc, anything that needs very awkward mounting, such as mounting a camera for a shower scene or riding a motorbike or a snorricam. 

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

From the announcement, it looks like a pretty solid working person's camera. 

100%!

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The YouTuber scene probably won't find much to be excited about, but I suspect that Canon is going to sell a ton of these to owner/operators. 

Maybe, maybe not. 

The C400 might have the same problem the C300mk2 too had, it came out too late in the upgrade life cycle , and it lost out to the earlier released Sony FS7

And a lot of Canon fanboys might have already got a C70 (or C300mk3). 

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Also, it makes all the recent C70 sales make more sense. 

Definitely! A full priced C70 is tough to justify if you can afford a little bit more for a C400 (and don't mind the little extra size), so it made sense to make the price gap between the C70 and C400 a little big.

4 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I know so few people that actually own/use these Canon cinema cameras. Everyone I know has switched to Sony. Those that didn't have pretty much ditched the cinema line altogether and gone with one of Canon's mirrorless options. I'd be curious to see how many cinema cameras they actually sell these days.

That's my feeling too, when I think about the past shoots I've worked on over the last couple of years, even if you combine all of the C70 + C300mk2 + C500mk2 into one category, it still wouldn't out number the number of FX6 shoots I've been on.

3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

There are tons of people using C70's and C300 II's. 

For sure there are, but compared to the hordes of people using FX6 & FS7?? Much less. 

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

$8,000

Does it justify a $2K higher price than their main competition? 

But hmmm... this is very cool: 

"Full Frame, Super35 & Super16 Modes"

Biggest feature missing from the FX6 that I wish it had!

1 hour ago, Tim Sewell said:

Front of my house on the day.

It's damn hard to black out a house, yet often still an easier path than forcing people through a series of night shoots!

11 hours ago, bjohn said:

The OG BMPCC only went up to 30fps; it was the BMMCC (Micro Cinema Camera) that added 60fps.

whoops! Shows how long it has been since I've turned mine on... I guess it's time to sell it 

Rumors now say the GH7 pricing is $2200

That's good news (was worried it might have been on the higher side of the two thousands, not low two thousands), and with how high inflation has been lately, I don't think we could have realistically have hoped for much better. 

11 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Or a card slot in the XLR unit?

ohhhh... that's an ingenious loophole! 

Kill two birds with one stone. 

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

On a more serious note, I feel Panasonic can squeeze out another 1/2 of dynamic range (from the G9ii) by tweaking the VLog, improving heat management and improving the Sensor coating further. That's 11.8 (G9ii) + 0.5 stops. That Full Frame territory. A few flavours of ProRes, BRAW and RAW wouldn't be too bad. They could shrink that horrible YAGH attachment that they made for the GH4, to about 1/3rd it's size, and have external multiple flavour RAW in the recorder. 

The YAGH was innovative for its time, nobody else had tried this, but I can't see them ever repeating in 2024 the now obvious mistakes of it:

1) it needed external power

2) was too big (having four SDI outputs for instance is great, but a bit overkill? 1x full size HDMI + 2x SDI independent outputs is enough for 97%+ of people) 

27 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Agree that the f8 manual lens is something of an abomination and did the launch no favours…but, this thing is being marketed as the content creators/bloggers camera so needs a wide angle.

Gee, didn't realize the existing options for Panasonic was so bad:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_brand_name%3Apanasonic%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Aleica-l-mount%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses

$600 for a 35mm f1.8 or $800 for a 24mm f1.8 or $900 for an 18mm f1.8!

They really needed to develop a cheaper lens, even if means a compromise on image quality, even if it means it is slower (but not slower than f4) to cater to the wide angle needs of S9 users. 

20mm f4 would have been a fantastic lens for the selfie shooter. Throw in a mid-wide like a 35mm f2.8 at a very cheap price, and you'd have lots of happy S9 users. 

From memory.... yes? (in the case specifically of the Sonys)

As they use their proprietary smart shoe connection, which connects to the base of the handle. But then at the top of the handle there is another proprietary smart shoe connection which is where the audio module is attached to it. 

2 hours ago, kye said:

It seems strange to me that because a cinema camera is small that somehow it is judged like a P&S rather than a cinema camera.  Many/most cinema cameras lack IBIS and reliable AF-C today, and even P&S cameras smaller than GX85 lack IBIS.

If you want a cinema camera that behaves close-ish to how a modern mirrorless camera is, then it sounds like you want a Sony FX30. 

They're on sale now: US$1,599 (waiting for them become sub $1K on eBay!)

2 hours ago, kye said:

and isn't 15x the size of the camera.

I mean, seriously:

Just another instance of "people who want quality must be fine with a humungous camera".

This here is both a top handle and an audio accessory. 

If you want to mount a mini short gun such as the Deity SMic3S or a Sanken CS1e then this is the logical way to do it, be using a top handle too. 

So let's ignore the top handle for a moment, as that size doesn't matter.

Can the audio accessory actually be made any smaller?

It really can't be, not significantly so. Not if you wish to keep full size XLR inputs plus the knobs/switches for direct control over it (vs doing menu deep diving). Which is the entire point of it!!

7 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I think that too, but I suspect Panasonic decided that it was more important to launch the S9 now (to some extent to ride the X100VI wave and pick up some sales from people who can't wait for one of those). The 26mm pancake feels to me like a 'we gotta have a really small lens, in a hurry, to sell or give away with the S9' rushed product - otherwise why would it be manual focus, given the target market? If it had been maybe F4 with AF, even if that meant it was a bit longer, I suspect the S9 launch YT videos might have been generally much more positive.

Honestly I think sticking with the Panasonic Lumix S 50mm f/1.8 Lens as the "freebie / promotional lens" would have done far less harm to the S9 launch, than that f8 manual focus lens! Even though the 50mm is quite big, at least it wouldn't have generated so much negativity  being bundled with the S9. 

(although yeah, I think ideally Panasonic should develop a 45mm f2/8 lens that's very compact, or something like that)

5 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Panasonic needs to have input from everyone under the sun and you get results like the GH4, coming from the GH3. I don't pretend to know the inner workings of any brand, but I imagine it's something of the sorts. So, why do they get it wrong? Some voices are louder than others is what I think.

What was wrong with the GH4?? It was revolutionary for its time!

On 6/2/2024 at 10:05 AM, Andrew Reid said:

The image has aged well but not the feature set. It's lacking AF, IBIS, 4K, HFR, and a good battery or audio. The Olympus E-M1 II is 400 quid and a good alternative.

well the BMPCC for its niche as a very low budget "cinema camera" I think can kinda hold up and live without IBIS, HFR (still has 60fps, enough for most purposes), great audio, or great AF.  Because that's the type of camera it is (of course, it was aimed at bird photographers, then yeah, you need a totally different feature set!)

It's only in the last couple of years or so do I think the lack of 4K is becoming more of an issue as it ages. 

But yes, sadly the battery situation of the BMPCC has always been its biggest weakness, they should have just used a slightly bigger grip and gone with perhaps a NP-F550 or similar battery. 

On 6/3/2024 at 5:00 AM, kye said:

During the livestream around S9-gate Gerald mentioned he didn't have anything that he was reviewing but couldn't talk about, so depending on the accuracy of that claim and the timelines involved, maybe he doesn't have either.

I half suspect that he doesn't have a pre-release GH7 loaner. 

The issue is if Gerald has done not just "a negative review" but does what others have even called "the MOST negative Day 1 review" for the previous GH6, and then you stack on top of that all his negativity towards other Panasonic cameras... why would Panasonic ever trust him to give them a fair go review for the GH7?

On 6/3/2024 at 5:00 AM, kye said:

Wow, that seemed to go really fast!

I guess it was just over 2 years ago, but still.

Time flies when you get older, plus I think covid distorted all of our senses of time 

On 6/3/2024 at 5:00 AM, kye said:

Maybe the GH7 launch was what all the influencers were invited to in Japan, and like Dave said, they switched up the camera that was released for some reason.  It would explain the audience and also the S9 not having the associated lenses also being announced at the same time.

That kinda makes sense, but also doesn't. As the timing is too tight. 

Why not just show the demo GH7 to them and have loaners sent out? 

The change up makes sense if perhaps the GH7 was pushed back by a couple of months or more. 

But this is really only a small handful of weeks later since the Japan trip. Surely this trip could still have been used for a GH7 launch?? Rather than making a mess of the S9 launch!!

18 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm surprised they'd just straight up discontinue the GH6.

The GH7 will need to have some really killer features to stand out, I think. 

I'm surprised the GH6 is being discontinued so fast. Usually the pricing of the new model is high enough, especially compared to the price of the old model on sale, that there is enough of a pricing gap that the new and old model can sell alongside enough and be targeting quite different market niches. 

At least for a few months or perhaps a year plus, until the new model sees its first discounts. 

In extreme cases, you see the likes of Sony keeping their older models around for ages and ages, so they can keep on targeting lower and lower price points (as they get discounted) without having to target increasingly cheaper price points. 

Maybe we'll see soon see "a GH6mk2" , like the GH5mk2. It will have very small changes, enough to call it "mk2", but not so many changes that it costs much R&D at all for Panasonic. 

That then gets launched at an aggressive price point, so as to cater to everyone who wants "a cheaper GH7". 

27 minutes ago, kye said:

Varicam RAW is uncompressed DPX with an external unit.

Would be wild if Panasonic delivers raw in the GH7 via "an external unit"

But the external unit is merely a battery grip with an extra card slot.