IronFilm

13 hours ago, Davide DB said:

I also use and own other brands, but if I were to insist on proposing certain non-Sony cameras, I would not work with the networks that give me my bread.

This. 

If you are starting out then just get yourself the Sony FX6. It's a no brainer decision. (unless it's too expensive, then go for the FX3, or if super broke, then the Sony FX30. Or if buying secondhand then maybe a Sony FS7 / F5 / F55). 

Anything else (S5mk2 / Blackmagic / RED Komodo / X-H2S / Z8 / etc ) is just going to massively limit yourself to only working in the indie filmmaking space or in house productions or music videos or weddings and such. (with the possible exception of maybe the C70 / C300mk3 / C400, depending on your local market conditions. In some part of the world they're not even on the radar, but in other parts they're playing a very strong 2nd place to Sony)

Possibly they're a non-english speaker using ChatGPT to translate their thoughts into something readable for us. 

I've been doing that a bit lately myself when I've been needing to post in another language! As I find ChatGPT to be more accurate for translations (in either direction) for my purposes than using Google Translate. 

What's your total budget? As a secondhand Panasonic GH5S (an older MFT camera, but damn good low light for its time! Note: this is a totally different sensor to the GH5! Don't mix them up) with a full set of f0.95 primes plus a couple of COB lights, couple of 1x1 panels, and a few LED tubes with of course all the stands/modifiers you wish, will cost a similar amount as a new Sony FX3 with a couple of zoom lens and nothing else. 

Yet that GH5S package will out perform by a large margin the FX3 when you're filming narrative shoots outdoors at night. 

On 7/27/2024 at 2:30 AM, Benjamin Hilton said:

Really most full frame cameras these days though can handle basic low light no problem, especially when paired with F1.8 lenses. 

As can most modern Super 35mm / APS-C cameras! Even good MFT cameras (GH5S / GH7 / P4K / E2-M4) can handle these tasks with ease. 

On 7/27/2024 at 5:32 AM, herein2020 said:

I agree 100% with @bjohn your first question should be how much are you willing to learn about lighting, your second should be how much ambient light is typically available to you, and your last should be how much lighting are you able/willing to bring with you. 

Once you have truly learned how to maximize both available/ambient lighting as well as how to optimize your supplemental lighting then figure out what camera meets your workflow needs while delivering the image quality you are looking for. 

You need amazingly little supplemental lighting with modern cameras at ISO 3200 - ISO 4000 when filming only a few individuals which is where many current dual native ISO cameras tend to set their second native ISO. I have managed to adequately fill light up to 5 people at night with nothing more than optimizing my ambient light and two Falcon F7 panel lights.

One thing I keep alluding to here is ambient light. Yes even at night there can be plenty of ambient light if you know how to use it. A streetlight, window sign, digital billboard, lit candles, even oncoming car headlights can all be used to help light your scene at night. I like to use ambient light for back or side lighting whenever possible then a small panel light for front fill and as a key light for good white balance/skin tones at night.

At the end of the day all cameras need light, cranking the ISO as high as it will go trying to turn night into day is a newbie approach which just reduces contrast, washes out colors, and can make any camera you buy look worse than cell phone footage no matter how clean YouTubers will tell you a camera is at high ISO.

Even if your particular location you're using doesn't have any ambient light (or only a very small amount of it), you can still have the possibility of this ambient light existing to drive the motivation of your "artificial" lighting. Could there be a street lamp out of frame that's throwing light onto your subjects? Yes, so place a light there to emulate it. 

Your scene will look a lot better because of it when done right. 

16 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Yes, I mean exactly that. It was my sole video camera for an entire season.

No full length ceremony or speeches etc, but hundreds of clips throughout the day.

I’ll go see if I can find anything on Vimeo but it might be a bit old now…!!

I remember being very impressed with what Brandon Li shot years ago with his Sony RX100 that he put up on vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/rungunshoot 

But I can't seem to find it again. 

He likely removed remove, like he did with his Sony NEX-5N videos (probably because of the people who were in them, and didn't want his brand image associated with them any longer):

https://web.archive.org/web/20130215084133/https://www.rungunshoot.com/the-350-docu-filmmaking-kit-depreciation-is-wonderful/ (ha, I see my old comment there from 2013! Forgot I wrote that)

17 hours ago, MrSMW said:

You jest, but a few years back, I did, as an alternative to a Go Pro with the Backbone rig and lens options but in the end went for a Sony RX100V which I shot all my video on for a year but ended up changing it for it’s bigger brother, the RX10ii.

Wait what... you were shooting for a while professionally with just a Sony RX100V? 😮 

Truly we engage in gear overkill... relative to that!

(or do you mean just as a secondary camera to your primary?)

On 7/23/2024 at 8:11 PM, MrSMW said:

Went back and tried the S1H + battery grip + over 1kg lens and...just no.

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

there are no lens options unless I push the size & weight back up.

Seems that you really want something lighter/smaller..... have you consider Nikon 1? 😉

(am kidding, am kidding)

And now Meike has released an 85mm lens for L Mount:

 https://meikeglobal.com/products/meike-85mm-f1-4-auto-focus-lens?variant=45431946903780

Rather "expensive" at $499!!

Hopefully with time it will see a big price drop, and/or a cheaper f1.8 version

9 minutes ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Even when the print etc. is made by machine,  in most cases the content was created by a human (with some tools), so it reflects an individual's life experiences and vision. 

Sure, the photographs reflect the "individual's life experiences and vision" even though the actual content (the photos files that the prints are made from) is made by a machine (a camera). 

Same will be true for AI generated art of the future, the "AI Art Prompter" will be using their "individual's life experiences and vision" to create the art just like a photographer does with a camera today. 

9 minutes ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Actual fully hand-made art such as paintings or sculptures are too expensive for most people to own, but they can still be appreciated in museums, galleries and other people's homes in many cases. 

Sure, that might still remain, but the other 99% of the market for "hand made videos" could be gone. 

9 minutes ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

People often frame and post on their walls and mantleplaces photographic prints where they at least took the photos of moments that spoke to them themselves.

Sure, but those photos have zero commercial value to anybody else other than the people involved in taking it. (and perhaps their close relatives as well)

5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

It takes spending six hundred dollars before you truly get something better than the Tascam DR60D I'm afraid. 

Wanted to add "...without having to compromise in some other area" but the editing time ended seconds before I could submit. 

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Crappy probably wasn't the right word to use on my part. I wouldn't say they're great, though. 

There are better options out there for not that much more money, that have better preamps and features.

Yes... but also no. 

What if a person wishes to spend less than $200 new? (or the equivalent lower amount, if buying secondhand) Let's also pretend too that 24bit matters to the user. 

Is there anything better than the DR60D?

Nope!

What if you go up to $300? $400? 

Nope. (assuming you don't need the extra channels of a DR70D)

It takes spending six hundred dollars before you truly get something better than the Tascam DR60D I'm afraid. 

For some people that's "not that much more money", for others that's "a lot". 

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

The Portacapture line from Tascam are much better and competitively priced, for example. I have the x8 and it was a game changer for me as a one or two person crew. 

Handheld recorders though are poor ergonomics for on set usage. 

But yes, I can't help but wish, what if Tascam had put the guts of the X8 instead into the form factor of a DR701D / DR680 / HD-P2 instead??? 

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I wouldn't recommend the H4n (including the latest version) either. Zoom has essentially released the same recorders, preamps and all, repeatedly over the last decade plus with only minor improvements.

Ehhh... that's true for the H Series from Zoom. 

But Zoom has been doing fairly well in continuously improving what's on offer with the F Series. (but I do wish a F4n existed! And I wish there was a big leap in improvements from the F8 to the F8n Pro) 

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

To Tascams credit they've at least avoided that and just kept the same pieces of kit for sale. I can respect that, because at least they aren't trying to sell their customers the same recorder with minor feature upgrades every 5 years. Still though, can't say I'd recommend the DR-60 or any of that generation of recorder. Save up a little more money and get something better. 

Sadly Tascam has discontinued most of their recorders from the pre / early F8 era. 

The only field recorders they've kept are the Tascam DR60D (the mk2 version) and the DR70D. 

Wish they'd kept the DR701D, it could have undercut even the cheapest of the Zoom F Series (the F6). Perhaps they could have released a DR701D mk2 that added the buzzword of "32bit" but otherwise kept mk2 identical to mk1. 

Or maybe a Tascam DR680mk3 that was identical to mk2 but added timecode support. 

Or kept around the Tascam HS-P82 but kept on slashing the price, if they priced it at say US$2K then it maybe could have still competed in a niche against the Zoom F8n Pro and Sound Devices MixPre10. 

Or updated the Tascam HD-P2 to a HD-P2 mk2 (or perhaps it should be an "HD-P4", as I'd imagine the mk2 should simply add a couple more channels of recording to make it relevant in the modern world of today. As two channel recorders are not much use now). 

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Most cameras today have "good enough" preamps, I think. I use the XLR adapter on my S5s and S5II X and am quite satisfied with it. There are obviously instances, especially with older cameras, where the camera preamps are bad but we're actually quite fortunate that they've gotten as good as they have. We're a long way from the T3i.

Panasonic is kinda the exception, they don't prioritize audio, but at least they usually treat it a bit better than some other brands do. Such as Canon, who still don't have any XLR accessor yet at all for any of their mirrorless cameras. 

18 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

It's old and the pre amps are pretty crappy.

The preamps are great for its (very low) price. 

Much better than the Zoom H4n, or DSLR preamps.

10 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Don't tell me!  Tell them!  I was just an innocent bystander with a v-mount-powered camera.  🤣

I'll send them some angrily worded emails telling them off! 😉

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

At this point, all of my rechargeables are older and I don't have any black Eneloops. 

If they're old they might have merely  half the battery life of what they had when new. 

And Black Eneloop Pros will themselves give perhaps double (or more!) the run time vs brand new lower quality AA batteries. 

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

It might have been less annoying if rechargeable AA's didn't take so long to recharge.  😅

Get a better charge?? 

I use a ISDT N24 (honestly, I should probably get a second one of these... a 24x AA charger isn't big enough for me!). 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959506834.html 

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Part of the kit was a briefcase full of alkaline batteries.  It made me awfully sad thinking of how much waste their students generate!  😬

They're pinching pennies, and being pound foolish. It's so very very expensive in the long run. Not to mention it works worse on set. 

Just get solid quality rechargeables!

9 hours ago, EduPortas said:

What? No love for Tascam's DSLR recorder?

Zoom F Series and MIxPre Series has been crushing Tascam I'm afraid. 

I'm sad Tascam is AWOL 😞

Want to see a Tascam DR680mk3! Or Tascam HD-P2 mk2, or HS-P82 mk2

10 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Is the F3 better with batteries than a lot of other Zooms?  My old F4 will go through multiple packs with like 8 AA's in a day of shooting.  Now I just power it from a V-mount that's clipped to its shoulder pouch thing.

Are you Black Eneloops Pros? I wouldn't use anything else. 

Been a long time since the Zoom F4 was my daily driver, but I vaguely recall being able to get through to maybe nearly only lunch time or something like that if only on internal batteries. Because the Zoom F4 had exceptionally low power demands. 

Not that anybody should ever be running a field recorder/mixer without a BDS / external power!! That's just normal common sense for how to use them. 

The AA batteries just exist as emergency back up batteries (such as when doing a hot swap). 

15 hours ago, bjohn said:

It's very expensive, but the Sonosax M2D2 is a small, extremely high-quality preamp that has two mini-XLR inputs. It outputs line-level stereo analog to a camera; it also outputs a digital signal via USB or AES. It has some of the best preamps and converters available anywhere. It's powered by one battery and can run for hours even with phantom power on both inputs. Sonosax doesn't sell a camera mount for it but you can download a 3D-printable file for one from their website. I use it mainly for music recording (I recorded our last album with it) but might use it for video one day.

There is a Sonosax M2D2 on eBay I've been eying for a while, but I just can't justify the cost vs the AJA quadboxes I already have. 

Am glad ARRI went with Sonosax for the ARRI 35: 

https://www.arri.com/en/camera-systems/camera-components/aem-1 

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

@BTM_Pix how do you deal with the f3's short battery life? I have my f3 attached to an npf battery sled, but it's bulky. I wouldn't mind changing AA's every few hours, but the battery door isn't accessible when mounted like that.

If you're using V Locks, get yourself a D-Tap to USB-C cable? 

7 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

"YouTuber shills for like 5 different companies and talks to other YouTubers while near an Arri and a GH7"

I thought it was kinda a genius marketing move. 

As making a short film to a high level is expensive. 

But this way they spread out the costs via a bunch of supporting sponsoring companies, and got out a bunch more content pumped out vs normally just the one or two videos made. 

9 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Reliability shouldn't be reserved strictly for professionals.

Everything comes at a cost. 

Look at hosting costs when you demand 99.9% uptime vs 99.999% uptime vs 99.9999% uptime

That increased reliability comes at a very very hefty cost. 

13 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

It's probably going to be a small margin for sure for feature films and commercial work. What will probably keep the "real filmmaking" industry alive will be documentary and reality show content. That will be the authenticity people will come back to. 

Reality TV exists as a genre because it is cheap (& was union busting)

If acceptable level quality TV series can be made for 5% of the cost using AI, then I'm skeptical if showrunners will be making so many Reality TV productions as they are now. 

The Zoom F3 also has much better preamps than the H4essential

Every system needs a cheap nifty fifty! Either for the beginner starting out, or even just as a back up lens for someone more established. 

That was one of the issues with L Mount, their lenses are too high priced. But now one of those pieces of the jigsaw has been solved:

The Meike 50mm F1.8 Full Frame Auto Focus L-mount Lens (already available in Z Mount and E Mount)

https://meikeglobal.com/products/50mm-f1-8-auto-focus-lens-for-portrait-photography

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

ZV-1x

damn, I didn't realize quite how many of them there are: ZV-1mk1, ZV-1mk2, ZV-1F (plus all the different colors/kits)

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Not all of the ZV-line are brilliant cameras, but they don't have to be when there's a better/different/more expensive camera you can sell customers instead.

It is perfect market segmentation, is the ZV-1 not right for you? That's ok, we've got the more expensive ZV-E10mk1! Still not enough for you? How about the ZV-E10mk2 or even the ZV-E1? 

No? Maybe the FX30 or FX3 then. 

And so on and so on, all the way up until they're then getting the Sony VENICE2! ha

20 hours ago, Davide DB said:

https://artlist.io/voice-over

Imagine the blow the voice-over community receives. 
Then I keep reading comments like: yes but the human voice is inimitable and there will always be room for those who want that unmistakable touch.

Bullshit

Voice Over Artists (and those Sound Engineers who are recording them) as so dead as a dodo right now. 

17 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

Yeah my point exactly. I have very little doubt AI will take over huge swaths of the market, it's just I think there will always be room for human made products. 

Yes, but what is the size of that room? 

15% of the current/past market for them? Maybe then it's still worthwhile discussing the role and future of human workers in this market. 

But what if it's just 1% of the past market for them? (As I expect will be the case for Voice Over Artists, it will be an extremely small niche usage of them)
Then it's pointless to discuss about the future need for human made products, as for all practical purposes it won't exist. (even though it technically "still exists")

13 hours ago, zlfan said:

it is not perfect as the tone has no excitement in it,

Maybe the female version of Jackpot, Campaign, Sleek, or Hype would match better what you're looking for. 

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

For a shooter that is doing long form interviews/talking head content and concerts, 12 or 20 minutes before overheating is a big deal.

That's probably regarded as being at least at "the level of" of a casual semi-pro user, thus they "should" get a Sony FX30. 

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

For any vlogging that I've ever done, it's usually in the form of several-minute takes followed by several minutes when I'm not rolling.

So maybe at most a dozen minutes talking plus a dozen minutes of not recording (but still turned on) afterwards? 

That fits well inside the overheating specs for the ZV-E10mk2, and is the type of intended users for it. 

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

For narrative, the camera is usually rolling for less than 10 minutes for any given take and there are usually at least 3-4 minutes between takes (and more like 5-10 minutes between setups). 

Although on a narrative a camera might easily go 11hrs without ever being turned off for even one second.  

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

To me, putting a recording limit on a camera that is likely to overheat is the way to go. Whether it's a large issue for most users or not, not giving people an idea on how long they can actually record before it overheats is something that can easily be avoided with a simple limit, certain companies just don't do it because they remember the complaints they got from the 30 minute recording limits. At least Panasonic is being honest in telling people heating is an issue and here is how we are attempting to mitigate it while giving you an idea on how long you can actually film with it.

I don't mind there being "recording limits" if  you have a way to override it, such as in settings choosing "High Temperature" allowed. 

22 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Sony practically doesn't give a shit about overheating. In fact, it is now a trademark.

It seems here in Italy in the summer you can't use the camera at home.

 

I guess for their use case (vlogging, so mostly short clips of a few minutes at a time) of Sony's target market then they think stats like this (getting nearly a whole hour or more in most cases for 4K 24fps) is perfectly fine. 

If you need professional reliability then there is an easy solution: spend twice as more and get a Sony FX30 

The current state of the art market proves my point. 

99% of people are happy to not have original hand made art work hanging in their homes. Instead they'll have machine made art. (photocopies / prints / photographs / etc) Or even... nothing at all.