IronFilm

On 12/13/2024 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Reid said:

What about the S9 as a video cam?

Nobody complains that you can't add a flash to a Blackmagic Pocket Camera

For sure, but the BMD's Pockets are marketed as cine cameras. 

While depending on who  you ask, the S9 is marketed as a hybrid camera or a photography camera. 

On 12/14/2024 at 5:32 PM, MrSMW said:

I think the only thing they really fluffed at the launch was that lens.

They could have simply launched the lens 6 weeks after the S9 launch. 

That way whatever negative flack the lens got, it wouldn't have bounced off and hit the S9 to cause it launch issues as well. 

On 12/14/2024 at 6:44 PM, newfoundmass said:

I think it'd be really cool if they released some small f2 or f2.8 primes to go with it. 

Even an f4 pancake lens with AF would have been more than ok.

But a fully manual f8 lens felt like they were taking the mickey? Unless it's being thrown in as some kind of bonus freebie. 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

We see how fast a mount can die...

Who here is still using Samsung NX mount or Nikon CX mount?

(Surprisingly, Pentax K mount is still barely existing)

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

- Leica will focus on M mount

Why M over L Mount?

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Still very early days though.

Indeed! To compare it with other breathtaking revolution technology changes, maybe it's like the difference between the "mobile phones" (well, field phones) I played with as a kid:

vs the mini supercomputer phones we hold in the palm of our hands today in 2024!

Almost completely unimagable the massive leap forward from one to another!

Then again, perhaps we'll hit a wall and have no more progress at all for the next half century? 

After all, since AlphaGo way back in 2016 (which was a shockingly breathtaking new development in AI! It achieved what all mainstream AI researchers thought was still decades away from being achieved) and the very famous "Attention Is All You Need" paper (published in 2017) then we haven't seen anything truly groundbreaking and paradigm shifting in AI be announced. 

Personally, just as an obessed AI nerd observing this over the decades, then I feel everything else since then has just been building upon and refining upon those earlier groundbreaking insights which laid the foundations for what we see now. 

Everything else since then has been: 1) further refinements and developments building upon those earlier  breakthrough foundations that were laid, such as going from GPT3 to GPT4 2) or a better UI wrapped around existing core AI tech 3) or these new insights being applied to new unexplored fields, such as for video generation, but still the same underlying idea at work

Thus why I think it's possible we might not see the decades forward leap happen again in AI like we saw happen 8yrs ago, as that did come as a surprise to everyone (well, for everyone who existed outside Google's DeepMind!).

But that doesn't matter, there is enough low hanging refinements to do (GPT5 when?) and unexplored new ground (such as just recently people have been doing AI generated video games! Mind blowing) to keep people busy for many years yet to come.  

For instance even if current core AI tech doesn't advance another inch, it's still good enough currently to replace 80% of workers in a Call Center. Just the implementation of making it done effectively and doing the conversion process of current Call Centers to being 80% AI based is what will take a few years to get done right. Just to give an example of just one industry that will be turned upside down, even if our core AI tech doesn't improve any more. 

Just because they're incremental improvements upon existing ideas, doesn't mean they can't still be high impact improvements. 

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Makes me think that universes and reality are simply an expression of mathematical language.

As a maths graduate myself, I 100% agree with this. 

Maths is the language of the universe. 

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

(My Sora wishlist btw... https://fullframe.ai/2024/02/21/the-ai-directors-wishlist-features-filmmakers-need-from-openai-and-sora)

Ohhh... you have a new website! ♥️ Looking good. 

11 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Let's say that the product is so unique that the price simply reflects the commercial aspect. I mean it is mainly aimed at an audience that wants to take a whim off and look cool.

It's perfectly matched after all with a Nikon ZFc / ZF after all, which is aimed at the same target market! (which is hey also the same the old Nikon Df existed for. And a similar market that Fujifilm often targets.... just look at their X-Pro or X-T etc series) I certainly do understand the appeal myself. 

In the years to come, once the Panasonic S9 has come down to perhaps a third of its price currently when picking it up secondhand, then I could certainly see myself upgrading to it. Paired with say a Sigma 45mm f/2.8 lens (or the cheap Brightin Star 23mm f5.6? Or TTArtisan 50mm f2?) then it's borderline "pocketable"?? (well, cargo shorts or jacket pockets)

I just wish the S9 had a built in flash you could point at the ceiling to bounce off, for a bit of extra light on a subject. It's a very very handy feature when shooting in dark and dingy night clubs or pubs! (then again, I suppose that big "full frame" sensor in the S9 needs less of a helping hand from a flash)

Numerous Panasonic cameras (GF and GX series) have got this feature, but none of the L Series cameras have it. 

Am currently building up a little kit (to take on holiday, overseas, or just general walk around camera for wherever / whenever) that's based around a Fujifilm camera (the X-A3) that does have this built in flash feature.  Thus no upgrading to L Mount in the foreseeable future for me. 

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If it had a powered hotshoe they could have sold me an EVF to go on the top...

What the heck... ??? I just had to look this up to check, it's just a cold shoe! Not a hot shoe. 

Can't do flash photography at all with the S9 😕 darn 

10 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Wow I did not even realize it did not had a flash hotshoe. Flash is so crucial for my style of photography.  I cant understand how they can sell a 1000+ camera without a hotshoe flash..

Is crazy 😞 

9 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Yeah, it would need to have a global shutter for real flash photography.

??? Billions and billions of photos have been taken with flash photography with cameras that don't have a global shutter. Just got to have a fast enough shutter. 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Now on the other-hand you could say Panasonic are missing out on a big market by not making a more traditional high-end photography camera to rival something like a Nikon Z9.

Yup, lots of people are asking "where is the S1R mk2?"

Not that I care too much, the S9 / S5 world is fine with me. (or maaaaaybe the S1R mk1 when it gets to be old enough. I've been tempted lately by the Nikon D800, with how cheap it's getting. Similar "level" camera to the S1R, just even older, with merely "only a 36 megapixel sensor")

On 12/10/2024 at 6:58 AM, Davide DB said:

Speaking about old (non cinema) lens I saw a couple of post from Filippo Chiesa on FB about these Hong Kong lens NONIKKOR 🙂

https://artralab.com/#page-4

 

Calling themselves "Nonikkor" is hilarious/awesome!

I can see indeed how in their physical look they are indeed taking inspiration from the early Nikkor lenses. 

https://fstoppers.com/reviews/artra-lab-nocty-nonikkor-50mm-f12-retro-inspired-manual-lens-bokeh-lovers-687091

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2023/07/26/artralab-35mm-f1-4-80s-review-the-perfect-lens-for-the-nikon-zf/

https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=10883.0

Price seems to be a tad high though? For that price I could just pick up a Voigtländer or similar one of those higher-ish priced manual lens. (maybe even Zeiss? Hmm... maybe a step too far, unless going secondhand)

On 12/10/2024 at 5:00 AM, MrSMW said:

In what regard...because nope, never heard of either of them?!

I was just joking around, as I don't think the next generation Z50 or a "Z90" (the mirrorless version of a D500) is coming any time soon. But if it was then it would for sure have 4:2:2 10bit and more?

I thought this was a very disappointing announcement from Open AI. 

There was a lot of hype about Sora, but instead was just yet another example that is making it increasingly clear that "There is No Moat", and that the gap between Open AI vs the rest has been closing. In fact not only has the gap been closed, we can't even regard them as #1.

For instance in the case of Sora, just look at Hunyuan, Hailuo or Kling 

Or for GPT4 or o1, compare against Claude. 

On 12/11/2024 at 9:17 AM, KnightsFan said:

It will be especially interesting if the "competitor" software rely on the same underlying model, or whether anyone will make their own.

No, they're completely new models we're discussing here. 

Sure, OpenAI does take their GPT4 model for instance and constantly releases refinements on them. Or you or I could take some open sourced weights and train something on top of that. 

But something like Sora is "made from scratch". 

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting tweet thread:

https://x.com/deedydas/status/1866509455896260813 

I reckon it's a great analogy, "Gymnastics is The Turing Test of Generative Video AI"

Another 10bit camera module for the Raspberry Pi recently got announced, this time it is an "AI camera":

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/ai-camera/

https://www.tomshardware.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-ai-camera-review-ai-for-the-masses

Quote

Specification

12.3 MP Sony IMX500 Intelligent Vision Sensor with a powerful neural network accelerator

Framerates:

2×2 binned: 2028×1520 10-bit 30fps

Full resolution: 4056×3040 10-bit 10fps

7.857 mm sensor size

1.55 μm × 1.55 μm pixel size

78.3 (±3) degree FoV with manual/mechanical adjustable focus

F1.79 focal ratio

25 × 24 × 11.9 mm module dimensions

Integrated RP2040 for neural network firmware management

Works with all Raspberry Pi models, using our standard camera connector cable

11 hours ago, JulioD said:

Have you got a link?

@MrSMW, I just assume you're talking about the upcoming Z90 / Z50 mk3 instead? 😉  One can dream!

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

whereas the new Alexa is rental only.

I'll take two! 

(I think if you're an established rental house, with an existing long standing relationship with ARRI, then you can buy these. I've heard it's roughly is about a quarter million dollars? Massively more expensive than an ARRI 35, which is "only" eighty grand or so)

6 hours ago, JulioD said:

They made lenses that went on 8mm cameras.

They made 16mm lenses as well, so while I agree with your point about 8mm, it's different with 16mm as that's where professional usage often starts (although a few non-pros used it, maybe you might argue 16mm is "prosumer")

6 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

That or just wait for somebody like Duclos

https://www.ducloslenses.com/products/mk-fz-kit

OUCH! $500 so that I can use it on my Sony PMW-F3 😞

21 hours ago, Chrille said:

True for features though a lot of commercials work  with Sony Venice.

"And in terms of the high-end, it's ARRI, ARRI and VENICE" 😝

(or maybe I should have said: "And in terms of the high-end, it's ARRI, ARRI, ARRI, ARRI, and VENICE" Or even "And in terms of the high-end, it's ARRI, ARRI, ARRI, ARRI, VENICE, ARRI, ARRI, ARRI, RED, ARRI, ARRI, and VENICE")

21 hours ago, Davide DB said:

But my Question is: once you have this amazing Z-mount Red cinema camera, which Nikon lens will you use? I mean cinema lens. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not talking about Z-mount third-party suppliers but Nikon native cinema lenses. It is true that in theory Nikon has a very long tradition in lenses but basically they are all photographic lenses.

Many decades ago Nikon made cinema lenses. 

NikonRumors.com already mentions there is a Z Mount cine lens in development. 

Plus I expect RED/Nikon if they have any common sense whatsoever will offer it with a locking Z Mount, so users can go with PL mount, as if it is "native PL mount". 

Every Sony E Mount cine lenses could be used on a Z Mount Cine camera with an adapter. 

And I expet once the RED/Nikon Z Mount camera is announced then 3rd Party Manufactures will be announcing quickly more products compatible with it, for instance the Fujinon MK zooms for Z Mount too.  (a good chunk of Avatar got shot on it)

21 hours ago, Davide DB said:

One market segment where the Reds are still the undisputed queens is wildlife documentaries on land and underwater. 90% of BBC and high end documentary operators use Red for 8K and high framerates.

A market that they really need to announce the next camera for this will have built in NDs, and could benefit from Nikon's AF tech.

21 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Canon CN zooms are the bread and butter of these productions. Hard to imagine convincing everyone to switch to Nikon. More adapter rings? Hummm

No problem at all if this camera has a locking Z Mount

6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 If you talk purely about video I would be intrigued by a used C70 for 3K.

I've been seeing Sony PMW-F55 cameras go for half that, which is just insanely cheap. And Panasonic Varicam LT for sub $2K. Those would be at the top of my rankings if talking about purely for video. Cheapest ARRI AMIRA is still close-ish to nearly $10K, unfortunately.

Although that's just my personal opinions/preferences, and not what @Andrew Reidis looking for. Not sure why the FX3 doesn't get a mention? As is leaning towards Sony already, and is a more video focused camera than the a7. And could keep the GFX 100 for stills??

Also the Panasonic S5mk2 is worth a litlte bit extra consideration too?

11 hours ago, j_one said:

To be real, what had me hold on a bit longer was Blackmagic going L-mount with the Pyxis. That was interesting.

The mount is swappable (such as with PL or EF), I understand why BMD didn't offer E Mount due to licensing issues, and thus L Mount is more logical.

But I kinda wish some random Chinese Third Party would put out an E Mount optional accessory (even if merely a dumb mount for manual lenses) to put on the Pyxis. Together with the fact Pyxis uses the BP-U series of batteries that would make it very easy for FS5/FS7/FX6/FX9 users to swap back and forth with a BMD Pyxis is they wished. 

8 hours ago, Davide DB said:

I know you were dying to know 😄

https://ymcinema.com/2024/11/28/nikon-and-red-the-z-mount-cinema-revolution-coming-in-2025/

"The highly anticipated RED Digital Cinema camera featuring Nikon’s Z-mount is slated for release in Q4 of 2025. "

Still nearly a whole year away.

7 hours ago, zlfan said:

how can arri alexa survive this?

nah, it's not a major threat to ARRI, as the article says:

"Hence, the Z-mount RED camera takes this collaboration to the next level, signaling Nikon’s ambitions to challenge industry leaders like Canon and Sony."

I suspect it's the Canon C70 / C80 / C400 and Sony FX6 / FX9 it will be competing for , although perhaps leaning more into RED's cinema pedigree and weaker in the ENG/OMB/videographer capabilities. Although hopefully the next generation from RED does addresses this, give us a luxury of codecs beyond just redcode (ProRes and H.265, and have the option to burn in LUTs. Komodo has already taken a step in that direction), give us internal NDs, give us XLR inputs (or at least mini XLR), etc

RED/Nikon can simply get themselves into position as the #2 player for the sub $10K market (at the moment are they even #3?) then after that is achieved they could look at pushing to establish themselves as the #2 choice also for the $25K+ market. (as at the moment it's ARRI and then Sony) 

16 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

As much as I care about e-waste and longevity (which are VERY important to me), the deal breaker on non-replaceable batteries is that if it dies on set, you have to wait to charge it.

Even worse if the battery permanently dies for good on you. Can't just send someone out to pop down to the shops for replacement AA batteries!

Not only is old gear cheaper, but if you go for obscure old gear you can save a tonne! 

Such as the case with those OG RodeLinks, most people have forgotten about them or never knew they existed. 

While on the topic of wireless, this is one of the reasony I like the Sony UWP-D series more than the Sennheiser Gx series, not just because they're better wireless, but also because they're more obscure (not in high demand like the very very well known Sennheiser G2/G3/G4), thus the Sonys generally sell for cheaper.

7 hours ago, JulioD said:

Literally you said only consumer grade stuff. 

As I said, in literally my next sentence is (emphasis added for clearity): 

On 11/25/2024 at 7:53 PM, IronFilm said:

Generally speaking not a single professional level audio company does this. 

(with very rare exceptions, such as the built in batteries of the Tentacles, but you can buy replacement batteries for them as Curtis Judd mentions, that you can then DIY the replacement) 

Very very clearly my statement you're referring to I wasn't claiming is a 100% ironclad rule of nature, I was very aware exceptions existed and I even highlighted a specific example myself. 

7 hours ago, JulioD said:

Ambient isn’t consumer.  They are the gold standard for time keeping.  

Never said they are consumer grade gear. But I'll put them on par with Tentacles, as they all hold time for the day just as well as another. Mozegear or BETSO or Ambient or Tentacle or whatever, will do the job just the same in the end. I wouldn't single out Ambient above all others as "the gold standard", I can't see where the argument for that is. Because they have the biggest market share? Nah, that's Tentacle. Because they're an older company and a historical argument is being made? Nah, Denecke takes that throne.

7 hours ago, JulioD said:

Tentacle might sell more clocks but they aren’t who Arri go to for putting clocks in their cameras.  

Ahhhh.... the argument is because a camera company chooses Ambient. By that logic then Sonosax is better than Sound Devices / Aaton / Nagra / Zaxcom combined.

On 11/26/2024 at 3:33 PM, JulioD said:

No it’s not.  
 

The biggest name in pro sound timecode clocks. 

https://ambient.de/en/products/acn-nl-l-nanolockit-timecode-logging

Literally in the same comment I said this just afterwards, giving an example of an exception to this is Tentacle:  

On 11/25/2024 at 7:53 PM, IronFilm said:

(with very rare exceptions, such as the built in batteries of the Tentacles, but you can buy replacement batteries for them as Curtis Judd mentions, that you can then DIY the replacement) 

Tentacle, who are an even bigger player these days now when it comes to TC boxes than Ambient!

On 11/26/2024 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Reid said:

the cash-rich section of the market - working pros

Many are not rich at all 😞 

I ended up going for the Viltrox , now the wait for it from China. 

Quote

"Dear Audio Companies"

 To be fair, it's only the consumer grade companies that do this. 

Generally speaking not a single professional level audio company does this. 

(with very rare exceptions, such as the built in batteries of the Tentacles, but you can buy replacement batteries for them as Curtis Judd mentions, that you can then DIY the replacement)