IronFilm
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Posts posted by IronFilm
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1 hour ago, JulioD said:
No Apple don’t take a fee. They are very strict about compliance though and each model has to go through an arduous process to be “approved” which can take a long time. This has been a barrier because it requires the manufacturer to open up their code and manufacturing to Apple for an unspecified amount of time for a maybe, maybe not. You can’t even announce it as having ProRes support unless it’s been approved. Understandably a lot of these companies can’t just sit around for 6 months on a finished model waiting for Apple to say yes or no before they announce.
That is why I hope in a few months time BMD releases a firmware update with ProRes, once Apple has taken their sweet time to approve it.
1 hour ago, JulioD said:BM don’t see the point in supporting ProRes anymore.
ProRes is the widespread industry standard, that's an easy enough reason to support it.
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1 hour ago, kye said:
I'd imagine a Pro version to come out, maybe in a year, that adds internal NDs and other pro features.
That's the dream, a BMD camera with a mirrorless mount and NDs!
So very few affordable cameras do this. You're either looking at ones secondhand, or likely paying for at least as much as a Canon C70 / Sony FX6.
So if BMD kept the L mount but added in NDs (either eND, or at least a clear + 3 stages of ND), say boosting the price up by a few hundred but still sub US$3K then it would be a pretty easy win as the best camera for me at that price point. Ahead of Sony FX3 / Panasonic S5mk2 / etc (I might still rate a preference to get the Sony FX30 instead though, it would after all be half the price. Is why what I really want to see is the standard P4K with ND!)
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6 hours ago, Jedi Master said:
I don't like two things about the C70: its form-factor, and its built-in flip-out screen.
Why don't you like a flip out screen? Just buy a SmallHD monitor?
What's wrong with its form factor? You're using it on a tripod after all to film landscapes / nature.
7 hours ago, gt3rs said:FX9 or C500 II would be more comparable.
Still why not a C70 i think for a one man band is a better buy than a C300 III?
Agreed, the C70 is very much so a smaller / lighter C300mk3 if you don't need all the extra settings & extra I/O (which @Jedi Master doesn't).
9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:(I found FX9 footage from several sources, so it’s not one bad example).
Yes, but how was it shot?
The same camera shot at golden hour vs harsh sunlight can look totally different.
Also a lot of this comes down to personal preferences and what each brand is trying to achieve. It's like that classic Nikon vs Canon battle in photography. Where Nikon leans towards color accuracy while Canon says screw accuracy and leans towards a "pleasing" look (as a lot of people don't want to accurately capture the world, instead they wanted to capture it like they wished it looked). But in the end, that's just where they lean towards by initial default, and either can be made to look like the other.
It's why I reckon you should rent a few cameras, when you're going to be spending this much.
I'd suggest you rent:
1) at least one of any BMD Pocket
2) at least one of any BMD URSA Mini
3) at least one of any ARRI cameras
4) Panasonic S1H and/or S5mk2 (with a Ninja V recorder too if you can)
5) at least one of Sony FX30/FX3/FX6
6) Sony FX9
7) any RED Dragon body
8 ) any RED Komodo body
9) any one of the modern Panasonic Varicams (or if not, at least a Panasonic EVA1 with a raw recorder??)
10) Canon C300mk3
11) Canon C70
12) whatever other random wild card camera you might be able to get your hands on locally (any of the Z Cam / Kinefinity / Fujifilm / C700 / F35 / etc cameras)
Even at a rate of shooting with one of these per week, that list will keep you busy for a few months!
As there is a massive difference between reading about a camera online vs using it in the field.
Believe it or not, every single camera from that list I've worked with on productions!! And many many more. (although of course, I don't touch their files afterwards, as I'm not in post production. But am a PSM / 1st AS)
9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:The FX9 can’t record RAW internally, and the other two can.
Meh, I reckon raw is rather overrated. You'll be surprised how very very rarely I work on productions recording in raw. If you can't nail a good image in camera with a solid 10bit codec then you might have bigger issues to worry about first.
3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:Have you considered the URSA 12K.
It is currently on sale (I think for Black Friday?), only US$5K!
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1776944-REG/blackmagic_design_ursa_mini_pro_12k.html
9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:RED DRAGON-X
I still don't quite understand why you're so keen on buying a brand new but old RED??
If for some reason I went with a RED (I wouldn't! Bad business decision, but let's just pretend I am doing this), then I'd go with either the most dirt cheap approach I can to maximize my value (such as a secondhand RED Scarlet Dragon for instance, their brains can be found for sub US$2K) or I'd go with the latest gen of RED I could afford with a new RED Komodo X (or in your case, go for a RED Komodo X, as you don't need the extra A Cam I/O features that the Komodo X has over the standard Komodo).
The RED Komodo is only sub $6K to buy the body, as it is on sale right now:
Then I'd pair it with a couple of the very affordable Fujinon cine zoom lenses:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1603697-REG/fujinon_38512012_mk_r_18_55mm_t2_9_lens.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1603698-REG/fujinon_38512013_mk_r_50_135mm_t2_9_lens.html
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6 hours ago, seanzzxx said:
Pulled the trigger on this after using the 4k for exactly five years (and the Ursa's at work a lot). I don't know if it is the biggest mistake not going for the 6K pro but I am really excited, especially after loving my S5 II (and in my eyes this camera is a 'proper' cinema S5 II). I'll keep you guys posted.
You give up built in NDs and S35, but you gain a mirrorless mount. I think it makes sense to get the L Mount camera.
Especially as you already have a S5!
6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:I wish they had added Prores. Braw does not allow playback on usual players such as Vlc.
Surely ProRes is just one firmware update away?? Right?
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6 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
Or maybe even go a bit more fancy, and go for a midside setup, especially now that Sennheiser just released the 8020 the other day. Now you can make a very compact setup of that with an 8060 in a blimp
Ughhh... Hate how I can't edit this just because six minutes has passed.
I meant to say the new 8030, with 8050 (or 8040, depending on your tastes).
Would seriously suggest you go with *both* options (Sennheiser M/S + DPA 2017), it isn't that pricey (much cheaper than some other alternatives), & quite affordable vs the camera budget you've got in mind.
As the use of a 2017 vs M/S are quite different purposes, so you could go for one or the other (or both at once, your F6 has plenty of channels to record all of them) depending on what it is you're trying to record
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It would, you could use your Zoom F Series recorder as the master, jam TC from that into a timecode box then put it on the camera
Then you'll always have files that start out being perfectly frame accurate with each other.
Get say a Deity TC1 for instance
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1705805-REG/deity_microphones_dtt0272d80_tc_1.html
And if you're going to be spending so much on a new camera, I'd suggest upgrading your mic too? Say the new DPA 2017 for instance looks good? And is priced drastically cheaper than DPA mics normally are.
Or maybe even go a bit more fancy, and go for a midside setup, especially now that Sennheiser just released the 8020 the other day. Now you can make a very compact setup of that with an 8060 in a blimp
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16 hours ago, zlfan said:
you are right that his style fits most of us. in his reply he mentioned that he was involved in narrative feature making at LA, but he sees most dps have broken relationship so he changes to high end news and corporate to have a balanced life.
I 100% can and do see that, I agree.
Know quite a few people who don't do narratives any more because of those hours and grind it takes on your life, focusing instead on something else like docos or commercials.
16 hours ago, zlfan said:i followed cranky's channel for some time now. i accidentally stumped on his video on amira, which he thinks the best eng cam.
If image quality is what you want, then yeah ARRI AMIRA is "the best" ENG camera.
Not so good in some other areas though (like size, weight, powering demands!).
7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:Still cool cams. Really like the EX1's ergos and lens with nice zoom and focus rings and servo zoom lever. Despite in a 10bit container, output over SDI is still only giving 8bit colour. Don't know if true 422 or not.
I think the big reason people would use the nanoflash recorder with it was just so they could have anything which was better than that lightweight 35mbs codec
7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:Pana HPX250 is definitely a cam i wanna try. A 2/3 inch sensor version of it with interchangeable lenses...
One with 2/3" & B4 mount? So you mean the Panasonic AG-HPX500 perhaps?
There is one on eBay right now that just got listed for US$545:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266503459184
7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:Nerds have different wants than other people:) A 100mbit AF100. Love the body and the huge eye piece of that cam. GH5II sensor and codecs in a AF100 body. Dreamcam. Nerds are weird.:)
If you can settle for the GH4 sensor instead there is the Panasonic DVX200! 😛
Wish they'd kept on updating the DVX200 each time there was a new GH series sensor. Or even better, let you swap out the lens on the DVX200!
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1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:
Codec can be brittle though sometimes, some 35mbit mpeg2 flavour.
That's why a lot of the Sony EX3 shooters would pair with with a nanoflash recorder for more premium shoots.
Of course the Panasonic AJ-HPX3000 doesn't have that problem with its 1080p 10bit 422 😉
1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:From my little experience, the EX1 and 3 are as good in lowlight as a GH2. EX3 looked fabulous on Monsters, for which S35 adapters were used and Nikon glass I think.
Correct!
1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:The HPX250 comes with Pannys 100mbit 10 bit 422 codec, some alteration even with the monster 200mbit All Intra. Unfortunately it is not a 3 2/3 inch imager but much smaller, around 1/3.
Yeah, it's always a trade off somewhere with these older cheap cameras! 😞
1) very lightweight codecs (sometimes you can work around that, with external recorders. Or it doesn't matter, as you're using it for live streaming purposes)
2) teeny sensors (well... even 2/3" is "small", but it's "large" relative to this, and what I'd prefer. But I'd like at least 1/2" like the EX1/EX3 is, not any less)
3) only 720p and/or 1080i (this is a very common issue with the Panasonics, they were slower
4) not worldwide (you can't do both 25 & 30)
5) no SDI (quite a few of these older / lower end ones would only have RCA as the video output, or might have SDI but only SD not FHD over SDI)
6) no interchangeable lenses (ideally B4 mount, but something like EX3's mount I guess I could live with that gets adapted to B4)
It's quite hard to find an older camera which hits all of these points and stays well under US$1K in being easily able to find
1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:You were not to buy any camera, new or old! @IronFilmNeither should I.😂
Sooo true! I need to resist.
Today a mate on Instagram (he's an EOSHD user too) asked me about what gear I had in mind to get:
Me:
On the topic of Sonys, if you know about anybody looking to buy a Sony FS7 I've got one for sale
Time to sell it and buy more sound gear instead
Oops, slip of the tongue
I meant, and NOT spend more money on gear 🙄😅
Him:
Ohh what gear u looking for next 😏
Me:
Thinking I might move a bit more over from Lectrosonics to Sony Digital
Might also change my Lectrosonics IFB setup from running in blk22 to blk20
Although ugh, that's such a big hassle as I've got so much stuff in those frequencies
But these Sonys are so wideband , blk22 creeps into the bottom of it, and I'd rather keep my Lectrosonics IFB transmitters going out of my bag far away from my incoming receivers frequency range
Also why I want to buy a RF filter I think, turn my wideband into narrowband ish.
I kinda want two of these: https://www.rfvenue.com/hardware/rf-accessories-and-parts/band-pass-filters But they have nothing in the frequencies I need it to be in 😞 This is a new product, not in production and available to buy yet, however I think it could be the closest to what I need: https://www.audiowireless.co.uk/online-store/DIGITALLY-TUNED-DUAL-ANTENNA-FILTER-DT-BOOST-2-p481882216 Just waiting on specs/price I guess, fingers crossed!
Him:
Oops I shouldn't have asked 😂
Me:
haha, and that's just scratching the surface!
although yeah nah, I need to resist spending any more money this year. But I earlier this year upgraded my boom audio to having two Sony DWT-P01N transmitters (for the last several years my Boom Ops would use Sound Devices MM1 running into a Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid bodypack transmitter), as I felt that was a better path than going with Lectrosonics DPR or Shure AD3 transmitters which were the other two main choices for digital wireless that I was considering. However that then just opens the door to lots of other changes I want too
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6 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
Even going for a Sony FX3 could be a big leap up for you, and could be the right choice? Even though I'd personally rather have an FX9! But that's because I'm wanting a dozen features the FX9 has, but are features you don't need.
https://ymcinema.com/2023/11/01/atomos-prores-raw-sony-fx3-alexa/
Panasonic S1H / BS1H / S5mk2 X would also all be great choices.
ehhh... I forgot about that URL being blacklisted, my bad
I'll link instead to something else mentioning the raw updates (I can't edit the post, as more than 5 minutes has elapsed):
Panasonic S1H / BS1H / S5mk2 X would also all be great choices.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1743629-REG/panasonic_dc_s5miix_ff_mirrorless_camera.html
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13 hours ago, Jedi Master said:
Wow, that sounds like a real issue. Perhaps not so for me, however. My work in the field generally consists of walking to a new site, setting up the tripod and camera, and taking 2-3 minutes of footage before breaking it down and moving to the next location. The Sony A6500 I have has a reputation for overheating, but I’ve never encountered it, even on summer days when the temperature is over 40C, probably because I take short clips with plenty of time in between.
This is a good example of what I'm talking about, how your priorities / needs / deal breakers are very very different to what it is for a professional.
The a6500 is wildly unsuitable for professional usage, because it is completely unreliable due to overheating issues.
The only people using the a6500 "professionally" are: low budget videographers (such as wedding filmmakers), students, vloggers, or people using the a6500 is a noncritical role (such as Sony FX9 owner op, who has an a6500 as their C Cam)
And while the RED cameras are seen as very unreliable, they're still from a professional perspective much more reliable than showing up on set with a Sony a6500!
As for Blackmagic reliability, I'd rate them a bit higher than an equivalent priced RED.
Keep in mind that "reliability" is not only relative to what level production it's on (vloggers vs the next hollywood blockbuster film) but also relative to what era we're talking about.
RED had their peak during the early years of digital filmmaking, when expectations were lower and tolerances were higher. As standing around waiting for a RED to cool down was still no slower than waiting for a film mag to be reloaded, or having an SDI output blow was no big deal because hey lots of S16 / S35 film shoots didn't even have video villages!
But for this to happen today??? 110% unacceptable!!
And that is the era in which Blackmagic exists in now, as Blackmagic's popularity didn't really get super high until the URSA Mini launched (and the Pocket 4K / 6K as well).
So Blackmagic now has to live up to much higher standards and expectations than RED did back when RED first gained popularity. But in absolute terms, I'd probably give BMD the edge over any vaguely equivalent priced RED in terms of reliability.
But anyway, both RED and BMD I'd rate higher than an a6500. (at least in the terms of things that could go wrong, it wouldn't hold you back from filming in the same manner as you would with an a6500)
Carrying on this point, lots of reasons why people would use many of these higher end cameras, are not relevant to your use case (you don't at all need multiple independent SDI outputs for instance).
Even going for a Sony FX3 could be a big leap up for you, and could be the right choice? Even though I'd personally rather have an FX9! But that's because I'm wanting a dozen features the FX9 has, but are features you don't need.
https://ymcinema.com/2023/11/01/atomos-prores-raw-sony-fx3-alexa/
Panasonic S1H / BS1H / S5mk2 X would also all be great choices.
https://*banned URL*/atomos-panasonic-s1h-prores-raw
13 hours ago, Jedi Master said:Sound isn’t much of an issue, as I rarely can use in-camera sound for various reasons, the primary one being the often noisy tourists in the places I like to film. I almost always replace the sound with background music and narration. For the times when ambient sound is needed and the footage would seem weird without it, like surf crashing on shore, I send my assistant (my wife) closer to the source with a Zoom F6 and directional mic to capture sound. For instances when ambient sound would add to the experience, like birdsong, but doesn’t require synchronization with the video (like surf does), I have a whole collection of sound clips recorded with the Zoom I can drop into videos.
Nice, it's a real couple's activity you do together! 🙂
Which mic are you using?
You should definitely get yourself a timecode box to use with your future camera purchase and the Zoom F6.
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1 hour ago, zlfan said:
Actually I like EX1/EX3 color better than FS7/FS5/FX9/FX6 etc. That CCD vintage wine tastes well.
Just got to have plenty of light and be ok with deeper DoF! And be ok with FHD, and not 4K. And not need slow motion.
Both traits/requirements that are perfectly fine for the gigs that The Cranky Cameraman was on in those videos.
His channel in general I think is quite a good watch for lots of people who visit EOSHD who are at that sort of level (doing solo or very small crew work, but still making a very good living from that).
Here is another video talking about EX3 vs FS7:
The evil camera gear GAS bug bites me in wanting a Sony PMW-EX3 as well. (or the even cheaper EX1)
Or hey, I've been commenting a bit lately about the Panasonic Varicam LT & Panasonic BS1H, so maybe I should look more into the Panasonic equivalent?
I don't know the Panasonic range so well though, what would be the Panasonic equivalent to the EX1/EX3 from Sony?
Perhaps the Panasonic AG-HPX250? (kinda equivalent to the EX1?) Or the Panasonic AG-HPX300 / 370 (kinda equivalent to the EX3??) Or go nuts for the big beasty Panasonic AJ-HPX3000, with 1080p 10bit 422 (body only is US$1.5K on ebay right now, but no lens / cards / batteries )
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@Jedi Master, here is a range of opinions you can read about RED in one place:
https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/future-of-red-cameras/
14 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:The original one did but the new versioner which you would use with the 12K uses the USB-C port only so no loss of connections.
Interesting, and this would work with the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K as well? (or only for the 12K? Googling seems to indicate only for the 12K?)
Hmmm... does make it vaguely more tempting to get an URSA Mini Pro, as they can be got for sub US$2K
But nah, I need to get out of the camera business, sell the Sony FS7 and get nothing. No replacement.
And if I'm silly enough to get another camera, the Sony PMW-F5 is only US$1.5K now!! Bonkers cheap. (although most are more like US$2K+)
Or I go bonkers, splurging the $3.5K to $4K for a Panasonic Varicam LT.
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1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:
Interesting. What generation of RED cameras had overeating issues? The earliest ones, or some of the more recent ones?
Ummm... all of them?? (except maybe RED Ranger???)
Although the more modern ones will do better. The RED ONE of course being the worst, I was on a shoot where they draped frozen bags over it.
Like I said, RED is infamous for this. Hated by the sound department, as we'll go over and ask for them to turn their fans down, and they'll whine "no we can't, otherwise it will overheat".
But in you case, you'll be using the more modern-ish DSCM2 body, and you don't need to care about the sound dept, you can just happily crank up that fan to go at max noise all day long.
1 hour ago, kye said:You might be better off buying the camera that's easiest to colour grade, or has the nicest out-of-the-box colour science rather than the camera with the most potential if you've got a team of dedicated pros in post-production.
Yup, this is why I think there is a strong argument for a Blackmagic Design, or Panasonic Varicam LT (or even EVA1 / S5 / S1H / BS1H ) or Fujifilm X-H2S or old ARRI ALEXA rather than a Sony or RED
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9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:
Like many hobby-related decisions, this comes down more to what I want rather than what I need. I’ll probably end up spending more money than necessary, but that’s what some hobbies are—money pits.
I could drive to work in an inexpensive economy car, but I prefer to drive something a little more sporty and luxurious, even though both will get me between point A and point B. Same thing with cameras for my hobby work. 😉
I think there is a strong argument here to buy one of the top of the line cameras from a previous generation. Rather than an arguably "better" camera for your purposes that just came out yesterday, such as the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K (with L Mount).
You can enjoy the feeling of owning and using one of the most premium cameras that have ever been made, without suffering the rapid depreciation you'd experience with buying new a much more modern but low/mid range camera such as a C300mk3 or FX6 or URSA Mini 12K or Dragon-X. (yeah, cameras such as the FX6 etc are indeed viewed as "low end" by many, but good enough that others can view them as "mid range". They kinda sit in the middle of low/mid range, straddling both categories)
As I think for you, a lot of it is about the experience of using and owning these.
Plus by getting a premium secondhand camera, it's wouldn't be that expensive at all for you to every couple of years to sell that camera and buy another one to experience the joy of owning and using. If you wanted to go through that regular cycle of using a range of them, rather than sticking with just one for the next 5 or maybe even 10yrs. (which could easily be the lifespan of a FX6 / C300mk3 / URSA Mini 12K / etc if you eek out the most from its lifespan)
Here are ones I reckon you should look at:
ARRI ALEXA Classic
ARRI AMIRA
Sony PMW-F55
Sony PMW-F65
Panasonic Varicam LT (maybe Panasonic EVA1)
Canon C500mk1 (you'll want to pair it with an Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q), & maybe the Canon 1D C (if you like owning what was also a top of the line stills camera for its era as well. The Canon 1D C is very old now, but the image out of it is still liked by some)
Canon C700 (there is one listed right now for US$5K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/334993242877 )
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11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:
It’s not particularly cheap at around $400 but more cost effective than c-fast pretty quickly and a lot more robust than having an external drive hanging off the USB-C port.
I though hated this setup when I would rent a BMD URSA Mini for shoots. As you lose valuable outputs to this. Making it a pain to give a feed to everyone who needs it (you/1stAC/director/etc).
Was one of the factors why I decided to go with a Sony FS7 instead when I upgrade my camera from the PMW-F3.
Irrelevant for OP though, they need somewhere between zero and one output. (hooking up a high quality SmallHD 7" or 10" monitor I think could really improve what they do)
10 hours ago, Jedi Master said:One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is build quality of BMD vs RED. I’ve seen a tear-down of an URSA and a tear-down of a RED (don’t remember which one, but it was one of the DSMC2s) and the difference in the thermal management systems was stark, with the RED implementation looking much better designed and robust compared to the BMD. As an engineer who has to pay close attention to thermal issues in my own work, I know how important good thermal management can be to reliability and longevity of electronics, which is what these cameras are all about.
RED however has a history of many many many cameras overheating. They're infamous for this. I've experienced this myself.
While BMD cameras don't, I can't remember the last time I read about a BMD camera overheating?? & I've never ever personally experienced this myself.
Clearly one company is doing it all right, and the other company is doing it all wrong when it comes to thermal management.
9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:The original post of this thread has been narrowed down by og poster to be privately filming landscapes with 60min of footage per trip. A S1H will be perfect for that or a used S5.
Yeah even the original Panasonic S5 would be perfectly great for their purposes, as they don't need the latest AF.
Although, in their shoes I'd still lean towards one of:
1) keeping it simple and lightweight with a BMD 4K (MFT mount) or 6K (L Mount) camera, they'll get the most out of these with the least effort (remember, OP works full time too. They can't spent 10,000 hours on this to squeeze the most out of a camera, like normal professionals would if buying say a RED or Kinefinity. It's a case of filming it then edit it over an evening or two, then do it again)
2) going full on nuts and getting a secondhand ARRI ALEXA , as they have a generous budget and don't have to lug it that far
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11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:
Minimal, yes, but that's all I really need. I'm not shooting a feature film, so I don't need all the do-dads you see on cameras used for that task. Plus, adding unnecessary stuff increases the weight of the rig.
Even for your purposes, lots of stuff there is handy to have, such as a Mattebox and filters. (especially if you're getting a RED, and not say an AMIRA or URSA Mini Pro etc)
11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:I have mixed feelings about the RED brand. Back when digital was in its infancy, well before ARRI and others got into the market, RED was a big name and I certainly aspired to own one, but the cost was too high back then.
Eh, RED had a brief flash in the pan as an alternative to S35 film.
But it wasn't for long, as it wasn't that many years later when the ARRI ALEXA Classic was released.
(the ARRI D20 btw came out a few years before the RED ONE, and the ARRI D21 came out the same year as the RED ONE. With the ARRI ALEXA itself coming out just a couple of years later)
From that point on, the RED never held a premium top spot. (if it even ever did... remember, the Sony PMW-F35 came out at the same time as the RED ONE! The RED ONE wasn't better, merely drastically more affordable)
11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:The Varicam sounds interesting, but it seems to use proprietary media (P2 cards) that are expensive ($395 for a 30GB card and $1840 for 512GB!) I'll give that one a pass.
Make sure you buy a Varicam LT on eBay that comes with media, it's one of the benefits of buying secondhand.
Or use an external recorder to record to cheap SSDs. You can get even more out of the camera that way anyway.
Or get secondhand cards, they're really cheap now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175229407783
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195107473555
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203903314352
11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:The BMD URSA 12K is still high on my list of possibilities. Some of the things I don't like about it: reliability concerns, non-detachable screen, and use of CFast cards. Likes: BRAW, PL mount, its menus, and built-in ND filters. I'll definitely keep this one on my short list.
Non-detachable screen is a non-issue. Most cameras are like this.
CFast cards are cheap ($479 for 1TB: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1778914-REG/angelbird_1tb_av_pro_cf.html ), so I don't understand this objection. Plus, if you want to, you could record to SSDs: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1578182-REG/blackmagic_design_cineursashmssd2_ursa_mini_recorder.html
Reliability concerns are a nonissue, it's cheap enough you'll be buying it brand new under warranty. And the difference for you in reliability between 0.1% vs 0.01% (which is a BIG DEAL for a professional, that they'll make a lot of noise about online complaining) is a non-issue for your purposes. (plus you're happy to consider the even less reliable RED, so I'm sure BMD will be just fine for you!)
11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:ZCam and Kinefinity look like great options with interesting technology. I especially like the media the Kinefinity uses. It's just a shell that holds a common NVMe M.2 SSD that's much cheaper than CFast or even CFexpress cards (4TB for $197). This is what RED Mini-Mags should have been. The thing holding me back here is the relative obscurity of the Chinese companies behind these brands. Will they still be in business a few years from now? Will they service their cameras in the mid to long term? Do repairs require shipping the camera to China? Who knows?
Just buy it from a local major dealer such as B&H and that will take care of all your servicing worries within the warranty period.
And if a camera is being serviced in the long term is irrelevant, the value of it will have dropped like a stone and it would be cheap to just buy another from eBay than to pay the labour and parts fees for your own old secondhand camera to be fixed.
11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:Panasonic is definitely a possibility, either the S1H or its cubic brother the BS1H. I have fewer qualms about support from a well-established company like Panasonic, assuming, of course, that they don't decide to get out of the camera market altogether!
I think Canon and Sony still sit on top of my list, with the C300 Mark III, the FX9, and the FX6 being contenders. Of these, I like the C300 best and it checks off more boxes than the Sony's.
Decisions, decisions...
If you like the idea of a C300mk3, then get the C70, is the same sensor without all the extra I/O you won't be using on your types of shoots.
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https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/zaxcom-sues-rode-microphones-for-wireless-tech-patent-damages
Yeah, I read about that the day it became news.
Zaxcom has done a lot of good for the industry, but sometimes I wonder if it has done more bad than good...
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3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
And like I said, that price puts it within touching distance of a secondhand ARRI AMIRA. (or heck, a Panasonic Varicam LT for well under half the cost! https://www.ebay.com/itm/225662483059 I'd in a heartbeat go for the Varicam LT over any RED Dragon. Especially as you don't mind the weight or boot up time)
A little more about the Panasonic Varicam LT for you to consider:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/07/18/the-gods-of-fire-2k240fps-raw-recording-with-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-and-odyssey7q/ (you don't have to go with Convergent Design: https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/23/atomos-announce-a-free-cdng-raw-recording-firmware-update-for-shogun-inferno-flame-and-the-original-shogun/ )
https://*banned URL*/2017/05/review-panasonic-varicam-lt
https://www.provideocoalition.com/review-panasonic-varicam-lt-4k-super35mm-cine-camera/
https://www.provideocoalition.com/panasonic-varicam-lt-review-part-2/
https://*banned URL*/2016/07/panasonic-varicam-lt-review
https://cinescopophilia.com/comparing-to-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-to-the-sony-fs7-camera/
QuoteVaricam LT owners will also be pleased to know that there is now a faster and more efficient software reboot that is completed with the use of the control panel rather than having to turn off the physical power switch of the camera. This improvement is certainly a welcome addition, especially to those shooters working in fast paced environments where you could end of missing crucial shots while you are waiting for the camera to re-boot. The slow start up time and constant re-booting of the camera after making settings changes was my biggest gripe with using the Varicam LT.
Geoff Boyle is a very very highly respected cinematographer, here is what he has to say about his tests with the Panasonic Varicam LT:
https://www.cinematography.net/Panasonic-VaricamLT-RAW-UHD-2017.html
https://definitionmagazine.com/reviews/review-panasonic-varicam-lt/
If you want to go super lightweight (although I know weight doesn't matter much to you, but it might for other people reading this), you could consider "the baby Varicam LT", the Panasonic EVA1:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/06/03/panasonic-au-eva1-first-impressions/
They're sub $2K now:
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26 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:
B&H has a kit that includes everything needed to get it up and running, including lens, for $10K.
It is a very minimal setup.
And like I said, that price puts it within touching distance of a secondhand ARRI AMIRA. (or heck, a Panasonic Varicam LT for well under half the cost! https://www.ebay.com/itm/225662483059 I'd in a heartbeat go for the Varicam LT over any RED Dragon. Especially as you don't mind the weight or boot up time)
I just don't see the appeal in buying an old RED (yes, it's brand new, but it's on its way out, mere seconds away from being discontinued). When you could for quite a bit less get the latest BMD / ZCam / Kinefinity / Fijifilm / Panasonic.
It's not the late 2000's / early 2010's, RED no longer holds any special significance in my eyes.
Some options for you to consider:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1747932-REG/kinefinity_kc_m2_s35_apl_mavo_mark2_s35_body.html (also in E Mount)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787634-REG/blackmagic_design_cinema_camera_6k.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401565-REG/atomos_atomnjav01_ninja_v_5_4k.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1708265-REG/fujifilm_16756924_x_h2s_mirrorless_camera.html (with a Ninja V)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1500709-REG/z_cam_e2_s6_pl_e2_s6_super_35_6k.html (also in E Mount)
If you go for a mirrorless S35 mount camera, then getting the Fujinon MK lenses would be very tasty, and are priced quite low for how high quality they are (can be in E / X / MFT mount):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1495860-REG/fujinon_mk18_55mm_and_mk50_135mm_t2_9.html
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7 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
Probably with a 50Wh power draw then they could just slap a massive 200Wh battery on it, and bring another spare 200Wh battery with them.
You could maybe even settle for smaller 150Wh batteries. But I feel once you get under 100Wh then it gets annoying, you start to want to remember to baby the camera and turn it on / off all the time to make sure you get the most out of your couple of hours per battery.
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1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:
The one I’m looking at is the Dragon sensor in a DSMC2 body.
Ah, I was thinking of RED Epic-X Dragon
True, RED Dragon-X is something else (ugh, RED's naming...), same sensor though.
But surely a DSMC2 body is a bit pricy? How much? Is it just the brain?? Once you add on everything else to make it fully functional (which is a lot), you're probably creeping close to ARRI AMIRA territory!! (which can be got for not much more at all than US$10K) Which would be one of my vaguely "affordable-ish" dream cameras right now.
@QuickHitRecord very recently purchased an older RED (but a DSCM1), perhaps he can chip in with his experiences.
40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:It's a great sensor. The DSMC2 System is light weight and the powerdraw isn't bad about 50wh. The C300 and FX9 powerdraw are probably half of what the Dragon is though.
Probably with a 50Wh power draw then they could just slap a massive 200Wh battery on it, and bring another spare 200Wh battery with them.
40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:R3D and the red color science are really nice and the Dragon has pretty outstanding dynamic range.
Arguably I'd say modern Blackmagics are better.
40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:The dragon also is a bit of a baby. For optimal results you want to bring it up to temp and then blackshade it, which takes around 10 minutes.
Yeah, REDs in general are a bit of a pain to shoot with.
And if you care about reliability... you wouldn't use them.
Although I think this shouldn't be a major concern for @Jedi Master's use case. But if you are to exclude Blackmagic on the basis of reliability, then you MUST exclude all RED cameras (especially Dragon or MX era ones).
40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:You probably won't want to venture much past 400 iso though, where as you can shoot at 4000 iso with the FX9 and 1600 on the C300 MKII with pretty clean results.
Yeah the older REDs (Dragon & MX) can make even the ancient old BMPCC look like a nifty "low light camera".
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5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
But there is absolutely oodles of info out there about how to setup / rig / use / postproduction for URSA Mini and BMD Pocket cameras, so you can very easily jump in by yourself and get the most out of your camera.
So there is a strongly compelling case to go with those, because not only are they so very good but you'll be able to get the most out of them. Vs going down a wild and unusual path, unless that is what you want??
If you like exploring new territory to squeeze the most out of something unusually new and different? Then maybe even pick up a secondhand Kinefinity from the previous generation, or splurge on the latest Kinefinity MAVO S35. You'll definitely be unique and pushing the limits on that camera!
Heck, maybe go use whatever is the latest beta version of Magic Lantern with a Canon 5Dmk3 body???
Another thought, don't underestimate just how big and bulky a set of PL cine lenses can be when properly packaged up. (as you've mentioned before, you're buying PL lenses?)
It's pretty normal I'm on a shoot, and it is lens cases. (yes, plural! They don't fit all into one pelican case. And transporting even one of those pelican cases and the camera can be a major hassle to do on your own even just for one mile)
This is a benefit of going with mirrorless stills lenses, or even mirrorless cine lenses (such as the DZOFilm MFT cine zoom lenses I linked to earlier for the P4K), is even as a OMB you can still carry around a semi complete-ish set of lenses with you.
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14 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:
I have the fp and the fp-l and based on the given description, it's definitely not what he wants (I'll also probably be selling one or both of mine soon-ish). 🙂
They're pretty slow based nature documentaries that OP is filming. I can't see the sigma fp being a bad choice for it in that scenario? (probably not the optimal choice, but not a bad choice either)
5 hours ago, Jedi Master said:How about a RED DRAGON-X? I can get one, including accessories, for a good price. Is it too much of an antique for my stated use case?
It's the DSMC1 body (which is what came out after the RED ONE, the DSMC2 though has been out for quite a while). But it is the Dragon sensor, which is the "newest" you can find in a DSMC1 body.
Honestly, I'd just get yourself a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K instead of a Dragon or older sensor.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787634-REG/blackmagic_design_cinema_camera_6k.html
If we were talking about say the Gemini sensor, then maybe you'd have a case for RED? (I dunno, haven't seen any head to head shoot outs yet) But any Gemini body is going to be waaaaaay more expensive.
9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:No, I don't need AF. I also don't need high frame rates (I think the use of slow motion in nature videos is horribly cliché), or anything specifically designed to make fast-paced work easier (because my work is almost the opposite of fast-paced).
I also don't hike long distances with equipment. Mostly up to a mile or less from the car.
I mostly film wide, sweeping landscapes such as surf crashing on shore, or trees blowing in the wind, or fog creeping through valleys. I don't specifically target wildlife unless it's part of the overall scene.
I am wondering if perhaps an old ARRI ALEXA Classic might make sense for you.
Would be seriously pushing the max of what you could operate yourself, especially once you factor in the tripod / mattebox / lenses / batteries.
But it sounds like you take things at a slow pace, and never go to far from the car. And I think you'd get personal enjoyment out of using "an ARRI".
Otherwise, I'd be seriously strongly suggesting you go with one of the Blackmagics.
URSA Mini 12K or any of the URSA Mini Pros (G1 or G2).
Or the new "Pocket" (except they're not calling it a pocket...) 6K with the L Mount.
Or even the P4K (lots of great cine lenses for MFT) or P6K (you can get that in PL mount).
I would not at all be worrying about reliability or ergonomic considerations that others might think about for BMD, they're completely irrelevant / overblown in your circumstances.
Maybe I'd give a wild card consideration to the Z Cam series as well. Or a secondhand Panasonic S1H (or BS1H). Or Fujifilm X-H2s with braw (not really a fan of an external recorder, but fine for your usecases).
But there is absolutely oodles of info out there about how to setup / rig / use / postproduction for URSA Mini and BMD Pocket cameras, so you can very easily jump in by yourself and get the most out of your camera.
Blackmagic Update - 14th September 2023 19:00 CET
In: Cameras
Posted
That's totally fine! The Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K can just simply give us ProRes in 4K DCI, UHD, 2K, and 1080. In all frame rates. That would be awesome!
Widely implemented in NLEs and other post tools?
Kinda.
Widely implemented in cameras?
Definitely not! Only Blackmagic does it internally.
Widely used?
Definitely not!
So far this year, I myself have been on shoots with only 3 DoPs which used braw, they were also some of the very lowest budget shoots I've been on (almost no budget):
1) acting student shoot using Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 4.6K
2) acting student shoot using Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro G2
3) a short film for a children's acting program using a Blackmagic Pocket (I forgot which Pocket, I think it was the original 6K or the G2? Funnily enough, I'm doing a second shoot with them this weekend! I'll find see which Pocket it was)
So you can see it really is mostly the low / no budget shoots which are using a braw.
The majority of shoots I work on are shooting in ProRes, with a minority in some flavor of raw, or in some flavor of a 10bit codec (such as XAVC).
Eh, all the reasons to use ProRes still remain today.
It's a solid codec which ticks all the boxes and does the job, why should productions bother to waste time on trying out anything else and changing their workflow?
If anything, the negatives of ProRes are becoming less and less relevant with time.
I remember way back when I purchased the OG BMPCC, that recording 1080 ProRes HQ seemed like such a hassle for me, with the huge files, the expensive and fast&large SD cards I needed to buy, the extra storage space for each project, etc etc
Fast forward a bunch of years, and all my concerns about ProRes are a trivial concern now.
You don't need super fancy ultra expensive cards to support ProRes now, even quite large cards are dirt cheap to buy, and as for the extra terabytes of storage needed? Who cares now!!
Yes, eventually ProRes will no longer be used, but that will not be a fast change. It will be a slow and gradual change, and heck, it might even get more popular before it starts to decline.