IronFilm

On 6/20/2024 at 8:06 AM, lsquare said:

I figured if I'm going to learn any NLE, it'll be Resolve since it's available on MacOS and Windows.

...and Linux!

6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Come on, you are not a "complete newbie" to lighting. Or are you?:)

Well, "newbie at lighting" vs "newbie at being a Gaffer" are two different things. 

And depends on the standard being judged. 

Professional standards: 

LX Trainee = I'm a very strong "competent" at that, I'd hope

LX Assist = I'm "competent", I think

Best Boy = I'm not deserving of that title, but willing to fake it and give it a try

Gaffer = I'm incompetent 

Low/no Budget short film standards:

LX Trainee = shouldn't exist on short films of this level, unless it's someone's literal pre-teen kid

LX Assist = am very strong at this

Best Boy = above competent

Gaffer = competent 

6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

If you'd state: "Hey there, I'm a complete newbie to the FS7. Do you guys also think it's not half as good as a C500II with its 6K mode?", I would ask you, how could you be a complete newbie having worked with it a couple times?

I mean, I own a Sony FS7

Wouldn't mean I'm an expert on it, although I guess compared to some people who claim to be one then I am. 

And "is it half as good as a C500II?" is an interesting question, I am not sure? As obviously the C500mk2 is a vastly better camera, but is it "twice as good"??? 

Also depends on how are you using it, some random sit down corporate interview on a low budget? The FS7 is probably "95% as good" as the C500mk2 for that purpose. 

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It was out of stock and I was so high on crystal meth, I couldn’t be bothered to look any further.

That's a pity you didn't put in a little extra effort to look further. There is one listed right now for only US$12K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175568291816 

You missed out on a bargain! 

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I feel overwhelmed by forum posts of bots, bats and time travellers. As you being a total newbie to video, as you stated here, it is both very akward, that you posted extensively about your FZ1000 in 2014 and after a ten year forum break you have become "a total newbie" to videography.

To be fair, people can be dabbling in videography and still ten years later be a newbie at it. 
I've been dabbling at being a Gaffer for ten years now, am still a total newbie at it. (well, maybe if I'm being generous, an "advanced skilled newbie", if such a thing exists) 

3 hours ago, kye said:

As an astute poster recently commented, if ARRI can do 17 stops with the Alexa 35 then why not Panny?

That's coming in the future GH17

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I also 'dismissed' anything from BM, the Sony Burano and the Alexa LF.

But what about the Sony F65?? You didn't mention anywhere that you ruled that out, did you at least consider it?  It gives you breathtakingly beautiful 8K raw films, and as it is an 8K image, you can pull still images from that too! Truly the ultimate hybrid camera, for filming with and stills. How could such a camera not be on everyone's shortlist?? 

1 hour ago, lsquare said:

If Panasonic can get the same ISO characteristics as the GH7's sensor in a future GH8, why not?

"if"

Those two letters are doing a lot of the work in that sentence. 

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

No, no!😂 It should be a 2020 machine. Guy bought it in 2021. They get sold on ebay for 550 to 600 Euro in this configuration, with a 6 core I7 9570, Rtx 2070 card, 16gb ram, one ssd and the 17" 144Hz display. They guy offered it for a very good price and then discovered the seemingly little flaw with the display and decided to charge minus the amount for a new display and repair repair. It is not a very sturdy Laptop, not close to my older Schenker.

Whoops, I too hastily googled that in just half a second, this time I spent five seconds googling it:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Omen-17-Laptop-Review-High-end-gaming-with-some-small-limitations.432964.0.html

https://www.pcworld.com/article/398313/hp-omen-17-2019-review.html 

Ah ha, seems to be 2019 vintage? Still a great machine indeed!

6 hours ago, lsquare said:

Seems like there are a lot of OT discussions here. Is anyone else excited about the GH7? Does anyone wish Panasonic developed an 8K sensor? Maybe we'll get one with the GH8?

Because this thread got hijacked to talk about sensor sizes, we're talking about GH cameras instead over on the thread for FF cameras:

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

I think the GH1 had it, or it was added in the hack?

Yup, the GH1 was hacked, it had some very high bit rate options with a hack. 

3 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

The equivalent of lens 'focal length' for microphones is their 'polar pattern, which their sensitivity to sound versus the angle relative to the direction the mic is pointed.

While that analogy has some descriptive benefits, you also have got to be careful to not fall into the trap of thinking too deeply in that manner of thinking that there is a "lenses = microphones" equivalency. 

For instance using a Sennheiser MKH816 is nothing at all like filming with a 200mm lens. 

As a lens completely 100% cuts out everything that is not in the FoV of this 200mm lens. And draws in what is seen "closer" in a sense. But something that is say behind you for instance, or to your immediate left  or immediate right? 100% eliminated! 

Of course this is nothing like how the Sennheiser MKH816 behaves! Not even close. 

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Let's say you're on a busy street and there's a man playing music on the corner.

Another factor to consider is that your mind plays very sophisticated tricks on you, with lots of fancy auditory processing of what's coming in through your ears. Your brain has an incredible ability to filter out sounds you don't wish to hear. But audio recordings are nothing whatsoever like that, you'll capture everything raw as it really is at the mic. (I think an important skill as a Sound Mixer, is to be able to not have any filters on your ears, but to instead to truly listen. It's incredible how often I might say "do you hear this... ?" and they initially have no idea what noise on set I'm talking about)

You might think you want an omni microphone to emulate the feeling you get standing on a street watching a musician playing music on the corner, but in reality that MKH816 might come an awful lot closer to delivering the feeling of what you actually perceived yourself to be hearing. 

That's why I've said many times in this thread, "it depends". There are a lot of factors to consider, and what's the "right" answer can vary from one situation to another. 

3 hours ago, lsquare said:

I guess I'm looking for an all-in-one mic, but I guess that doesn't exist.

Heh, I kinda guess a mid-side mic setup is kinda that. Well not "all-in-one", but it's certainly "multiple-in-one"!

Something like a Sennheiser MKH8030 +MKH8050 would be quite nice to have in a blimp, but I'm afraid would be far outside your price bracket. 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/04/13/sennheiser-mkh-8030-figure-8-condenser-microphone/ 

https://www.michaelgallagher.co.uk/how-to/understanding-mid-side

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/26494-sennheiser-mkh-3050-for-ms-vs-sennheiser-mkh-8040-stereo-pair-for-ambience-and-sfx-recording/

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/46551-2-sides-1-midcenter-microphone-setup/

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/29875-advice-on-mid-mic-in-ms-configuration/

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/59671-sennheiser-previews-mkh-8030-figure-of-eight-rf-condenser-microphone/

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/35954-mid-side-advice-shotgun-or-not/

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/17857-which-ms-stereo-solution/

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Insane! Would that be a RTX Quadro 5000 inside, 16GB video RAM?😂 Best deal in the universe! Keep us posted!

 I got them to take a photo of the BIOS, as I wanted to check that the BIOS is unlocked:

And from this info I managed to do a bit more sleuthing, and identified the exact model (there are over two thousand models of the Lenovo P73!! Not counting the various Custom-to-Order P73 laptops): https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-p-series-laptops/thinkpad-p73-type-20qr-20qs/20qs/20qss2p300/pf2bylge/parts/display/buy-now 

And having looked up the parts in it, I can see that it uses the Nvidia P620:

Sadly because it is a P73 the GPU is soldered to the motherboard 😞 

So I couldn't upgrade this lowly P620, as I was planning to do with the P71 (as I was thinking to put a Nvidia P3000 into it). 

Although I guess the gap in performance between a P620 and a P3000 isn't the end of the world:

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-P620-vs-Nvidia-Quadro-P3000/m471282vsm264483 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Quadro-P3000-vs-Quadro-P620_7665_9864.247598.0.html

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Mine is a HP Omen 17 with a I7 9750H six core and a RTX2070 inside.

What the heck??? You got a one year old beasty gaming machine like that for only 250 euro????? 😮 

Even if you are forced to spend the money on entirely replacing the whole display, that's still an extremely good deal that you got! 

10 hours ago, zlfan said:

gh2 can do unlimited video recording due to the hack. it was a big thing at the time. gh3 although has a little bit better 1080p than hacked gh2 1080p (actually very little), but limited to 30 min. 

That depends on where you purchased it, in my country the GH3 was unlimited recording length. 

This is what I felt made the GH3 the ultimate stills camera (for filmmaking) of the 1080 era, and a refinement of the GH2. 

All the great benefits of the GH2 hack (such as unlimited recordings and better image quality) you could get in the GH3 without needing to hack it. But you also got other benefits from the GH3 as well that the GH2 didn't have: better weatherproofing, better battery life, slow motion FHD, much better OLED, better low light, better DR, headphone jack, clean HDMI, WiFi, and more. 

10 hours ago, zlfan said:

gh5 is a refinement of gh4, worthy of mentioning. 

I think the GH5 was more than just a refinement of the GH4, as internal 10bit and IBIS are both two big things 

And yeah, mentioned the GH5 already

10 hours ago, zlfan said:

I think hacked gh2 still is the most famous, iconic one. hack is the key here. 

Yeah it is a question of if with time (say in 2030, or even 2040) will the GH2 be most famous for its hack and early impact in the beginning days of the HDSLR Revolution? Or will it be the GH4 for being the first with 4K?

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

But is the 3CCD block in the SRW9000 block the same as in the F23?

I dunno, but it wouldn't surprise me. 

Wasn't the SRW900PL the F35 in a broadcast from factor?  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737286-REG/Sony_SRW_9000PL_SRW_9000PL_HDCAM_SR_Camcorder.html 

So the SRW900 itself with a 2/3" might be based directly upon the F23 and share the same sensor. 

I know the older F900R is the broadcast style body that's older than all of them, and is what the F23 itself was directly based upon but aimed more at cinema shooting. 

In a way the SRW900 is the full loop back from first the F900R (broadcast body) then to F23 (film body) then back to the SRW900 (broadcast body)

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

The sensor in the S35 version is from the F35.

Yup, the upgraded S35 F23 and the F35 is one and the same identical model. 

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Btw F23 and F35, great naming convention regarding sensor gate.:)

Does make them very easy to remember!

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

It took Arri many years to get back to that. They only dared to do so with their majestic Alexa35.:)

haha!

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

That Lenovo deal is isane. @IronFilm

They're offering me now a Thinkpad P73 instead! (because the P71 went missing)  For the same price I have already paid. 

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

I just got myself a 17" sixcore with a rtx2070 for 250 Eu

Wow, that's amazing! Incredible deal. 

Which laptop model is this specifically?

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

due to a reddish spot on the display, which is only visible against a black background. Seller offered me 200 Euro off his original selling price of 450 when he discovered it and emailed me beforehand. Crazy. I hope it will work fine.

It's crazy how much stuff gets discounted for a minor issue. 

Sometimes it's a non-issue you don't care about and you can work around, other times it might be an easy fix if you have the knowhow. (for instance this P71 I originally purchased had a bad battery and charging issues, but a battery is super ultra easy to replace, and probably should be anyway for a laptop of this age. And the charging issue I think should be a very easy fix. Especially as for the P70 the charging port isn't even soldered on! So I wouldn't even need to use the soldering iron to fix that) 

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

LOL 100% agreed... Loved everything there. Roll-off, grain, colour rendering, skin tones included... my fav specific sensor rendition, so I'd place it in the top with the other advantages you've already pointed out:

 

I think for narrative filmmakers they really appreciated the GH5S at the time, and didn't mind so much about the loss of IBIS vs the GH5 itself (or the poor AF vs the Sony/Canon competition). But for the average videographer, they prefer the standard GH5 model over the GH5S.

But the problem is that most narrative filmmakers were either shooting with something a lot better, like an ARRI, or if they were on an ultra tight budget generally went with Blackmagic instead of a GH5S. 

So I feel the GH5S never got the proper recognition it deserved, was a bit of a sleeper. 

11 hours ago, lsquare said:

That's why I'm asking. I'm trying to learn without wasting my money. 

Perhaps explain more precisely what type of recordings you're doing and videos you're making? 

Is sync sound even the optimal right choice for you? Maybe a little Tascam DR-40X is a better idea for you, and you'd record the specific audio you want, to later on sync up in post. 

It all "depends". 

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Is the latter a F23 in a shoulder mount body?

It's an identical body to the F35! But with a 2/3" sensor. 

The F23 came out first. And most F23 bodies got upgraded to a F35. 

Is one of the reasons why so few F23 bodies still exist. 

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Btw the S35 version was on sale on ebay Germany, with the  444 board, 50p 422, viewfinder and tapes, all for 2500 Euro, five or so years ago. Never found one for a price close to that again. Happy though that I did not feel tempted enough to spend my savings on it.:)

A bullet dodged! 

I do find it very hard sometimes to resist the temptation of incredibly cheap bargain deals on old technology that was for its time the very best. 

Last night on eBay I got a working Lenovo Thinkpad X270 from Lithuania for only a hundred bucks NZD!! (including shipping!! Incredible) The X270 was for its time the very best ultraportable business laptop, capable of up to 24hrs of battery life! (yes, you read that right! And if 24hrs of nonstop computing time wasn't enough for you... you could do battery hot swaps! Because the X270 used dual batteries, so could run on one while the other one was unplugged)

Also last night I scored a Thinkpad P71 for only US$185! (plus shipping & taxes) The Thinkpad P71 is a 17 inch beast, a desktop replacement workstation with a tonne of power under the hood and heaps of upgradeability potential! (unlike most laptops) Although very worryingly... they messaged me now saying they accidentally shipped it to the wrong addressed???? wtf! They're trying to reroute it now back to themselves or to the correct address? I don't think they're trying to scam me...   they've got thousands of feedback ratings with a 99.6% rating! And they said if they can't sort it out they will offer me a different laptop (but they don't have any I want...) or a refund (but I want my P71!). 

Or a couple of weeks ago I got a miracle deal on a Lectrosonics UHD200D for just US$100! (my other one I paid about less than US$300 for secondhand in 2022, and I thought that was an amazing deal for it! Yes it's technology from the early 2000's, but still works well and sounds great in 2024!) I think that UH200D I got this month will remain my most amazing #1 bargain of 2024. 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

... It's sponsored by Leica, with pretty Sony crayon mode dial colours.

That's wild! Didn't think Nikon and Leica would be collaborating. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to do a S5 like this than a Z6?? At least Panasonic and Lecia have a long history of working together 

8 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I experienced the exitement of an enthusiastic starter doing his first shortfilm three months ago. He felt blown away by the image quality of a G85.

Awww.... that's cute

I'm sure on the 15th time @BTM_Pixyou'll finally get it done right. 

38 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

7 easily. For me.

10 or 20 years plus from now (once all of this is now "ancient history", rather than simply voting for whatever is the latest hottest camera), when people look back and discuss filmmaking with MFT, will the GH7 be the first one they talk about??? 

I think it will probably be the GH4 or GH2. 

23 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

If GH5S is the one I'd choose...

Why would you choose the GH5S as the greatest of the GH series cameras?

Personally, if I was to buy one tomorrow, I think I'd go for the GH5S myself. As someone who lives more in the narrative filmmaking world these days, I don't mind giving up IBIS, but I kinda do want that low light monster ability and I do want  that timecode feature. And I feel that as of now in 2025 the prices for the GH6 (and obviously not the GH7) have not yet fallen enough for me to regard it as a true bargain. 

However the GH5S definitely wasn't the most impactful of the GH series! There might even be a case to argue it was the least impactful?? (ok, the second least impactful, after the GH5mk2! If we should even count that as a different camera???)

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

So in a way it is quite refreshing to spend time with a Canon G2 from 2002 with (decent for the time) 2/3" sensor, or if you want a modern 2/3" sensor, the Fuji X-30.

In my eyes, the ultimate ever 2/3" camera is still the epic Sony F23! But very hard to find these days. 

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I also think the modern cameras are just getting too good... too clean, too clinical, too sharp, especially the modern lenses (be it anamorphic or otherwise). And we have had this discussion for about 15 years now and not a single manufacturer has listened.

That's why the prices for vintage cine lens sets have gone insane. 

And many modern manufactures are attempted to recreate "the vintage look". For example, just recently in the past month these have been in the news:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/06/ancient-optics-old-fast-glass-statera-1-5x-anamorphic-primes/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/06/module-8-variable-l2-pro-tuner/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/11/iron-glass-lenses-at-cine-gear-2024/

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/01/v35-project-retunes-modern-lenses-to-emulate-vintage-lens-aesthetics/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/05/14/masterbuilt-ultra65-lens-series/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/05/02/fuji-ebc-primes/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/05/02/iron-glass-phenix-28-70mm-t2-7/ 

All of this going for the old "vintage look", that's just only in one month in the news, and only what was reported just on one website. Just scratching the surface here. 

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

* I've seen an awful lot of European people queuing at the tax free counter to buy cameras in Japan over the years but, curiously, never seen anyone rocking up to the Customs counter at European airports on the way back to declare their purchases.

It is because European Customs Officers are so incredibly efficient and fast, that is why you never ever see a queue forming. 

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am not referencing those with just $400 but the ones with reasonable money to spend, to whom 3000 euros just cannot be justified for just one single camera that does nothing really special compared to the 6 year old original model for stills. This is high-end Apple laptop pricing territory.

Also it is not within reach of those with a spare disposable $2k to upgrade from their old DSLR either.

So as a 'mid-range' camera I really just think it is too expensive.

I'd be interested to see how that $2500 market holds up.

It is either going to cannibalise the high-end and pros will buy the Z6 III, or it will suffocate the mid-range and people will just get second hand stuff instead.

It isn't a sustainable strategy. Mid range should be $2k max.

Even if I'm spending $1K to $1.5K (so staying very comfortably under the $2K max), I think I'd still struggle to go for any modern day mirrorless camera if I was starting again from scratch with only an interest photography. (as that's where mirrorless is strongest: videography) 

A person could jump on eBay right now and buy a Nikon D850 for just US$1.2K, what more does a hobbyist photographer really need  if starting out? 

I agree that the current brand new prices of FF mirrorless today feel kinda overpriced for photographers, once you compare them against the glut of cheap secondhand DSLRs we're spoiled with.

So getting a new FF mirrorless is very much so a luxury purchase for photos.

Unless... I'm wanting compact small size. (as I'll admit all DSLRs are rather poor at that) But then am I really going with a FF mirrorless? Or am I going for an APS-C or even MFT mirrorless? 

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The currency has also taken a hit vs the USD but the yen I believe is quite weak?

That's another factor to also explain some of the pricing difference between brands. 

They might be each taking different currency hedging approaches, or not doing any hedging at all. 

39 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The GH7 thread turned into a ‘discussion’ about sensor sizes, magic and all kinds of stuff, so I thought maybe we could derail this one with some boring old M4/3 GH7 talk?

Which was the greatest ever GH series camera?

The GH1 that started it all?

The GH2 that was the most famous of them all with the hack?

The GH3 that was the ultimate refinement of the 1080 era? 

The GH4 that was revolutionary in being the first to deliver us 4K video and epic 96fps slow motion? (first ever with timecode too... but only with the YAGH!)

The GH5 that gave us 4K 10bit internal, waveforms, and IBIS?

The GH5S that was the low light monster? (and gave us timecode too! Without the need of that quirky YAGH)

The GH6 which pushed beyond 4K resolution, and in 4K gave as an astonishing 240fps? 

The GH5mk2, the quiet refinement of the GH5? (I'd be surprised if anybody votes for this model as being "the greatest ever")

The GH7 which finally brought us top notch autofocus performance on par with the competition, internal raw, 32bit audio, and ARRI LogC3?

1 hour ago, lsquare said:

Wouldn't I want a mic to record sound from the sides and back? 

Do you? Do you really?

Go ahead and buy, but perhaps you might find it picking up too much? (you really might not know for sure, for your own personal circumstances, until you go ahead and try it out) 

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Well I go through phases of different combos and actually mostly use a Spider Holster belt AND a twin harness.

The beauty of the hip set up is the weight is off your neck & upper back and on your hips, but with the added bonus that if you miss the Spider holster slot, the camera does not drop and smash into 62 bazillion pieces on the concrete floor, but dangles at the end of the strap instead.

Plus you can push the camera against the strap for added stability.

But…I don’t really like the harness system because it’s not great with a white linen shirt.

Sooooo I have been using a 2 camera system on non-wedding days and my white linen shirts and then on wedding days, adding the harness over a navy blue shirt for that third camera.

Ah yes, all of that makes a lot of sense! Cheers for sharing