jgharding

Yeah I get what you're saying on all counts.

I do what you describe there right now, and generally the S1H is the A-cam, mainly due to the S5 ii's lack of OLPF and moiré issues in interviews.

I'll take the S5 ii around for cutaways and so on as it's way lighter and you can do touchscreen focus pulls.

The hope is that an S1H ii would add the AF, with some improvements, and hopefully not add any bugs LOL

 

Having used the S5 ii since launch now and having had more than the fair share of problems, I'm interested to see what, if anything happens with an S1H Mk 2

What do they have up their sleeve NEXT, so to speak?

Rumors have come and gone for a long time... But nothing has appeared...

The startup time is a real downer. I've lost shots to it, and it tricks me into thinking it's dead.

6 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Could be additional processing in the camera is taming it when recording internally ?

I'm not sure TBH, I've not seen it before, so it's a bit strange

PS. the S1H Moiré is actually visible on YouTube at 1080p and above. I'd hate to have to stop using BRAW...

I'm aware I can secondary the shirt etc etc, but a lot of these shoots are very quick turnaround so it would be far preferable to not have to deal with it.

Hi all,

After using S5 ii and S1H on a shoot together I noticed a few interesting things RE moiré.

The S5 ii definitely suffers from sensor-Moiré in certain situations, here you can see that as a distant rough-tweed cover on the gobo comes into focus with the pan down, it dances like crazy with brightly coloured red and green Moiré. I just edited around it TBH:

You could do some repair in post for this, but for the odd cutaway on the post budget the film has, it's not worth it TBH.

Interestingly below though, the S1H actually suffered with Moiré in some of the interviews, while the S5 ii didn't. I've not seen this before. The S1H has an OLPF and has never shown any Moiré til now. This shot is in 25p BRAW and has a mild yellow and blue Moiré on the shirt, it then cuts to the close shot on the S5 ii, where there's no Moiré at all. This doesn't look like sensor Moiré to me, and indeed that wouldn't make a lot of sense. I've punched in a lot so it survives YouTube compression, and you'll need to watch in 4K. I edited the topic etc as I had thought it was just in 4K S35 BRAW, but actually its in both 6K and 4K raw, open gate and S35.

I do wonder if this is something to do with how BRAW is being processed, the S1H generally has been Moiré resistant over a ton of shoots in the last few years, so perhaps the BRAW processing in Resolve has changed in some negative way I thought? Resolve wise I've tried all the scaling filters, every raw decode quality, every raw profile, and it's still there, so I think it may be a Video Assist 12G glitch.

To me, this looks like some kind of aliasing from scaling, so at some point there's scaling happening in software either in the Video Assist 12G or maybe even the S1H?

I admit it's mild and YouTube covers most of when it's full size, but back to back with Moiré-free footage it's distracting. If I can't find any other options or settings I'll flag it to Blackmagic Design and see what's up.

It's really short sighted. Fashion goes back and forth between YouTube and written word I think.

We may be at peak YouTube, but I am also quite sick of huge sponsor midrolls, constant YouTube-fashion verbal ticks like "I don't love X feature" and "this is gonna be your shutter, this is gonna be thee battery door, this is gonna be the sensor, gonna be gonna be", and of Google answering my questions with a link to a massive video full of "WHAT IS UP GUYS SMASH A LIKE BUTTON AND BANG THE BELL" instead of one sentence that answers my f-ing question.

There's seems to be a baby/bathwater problem these days as there alayws has been.

Remember when manual focus photography lenses were worth very little? Remember when people gave away vintage audio equipment cos all the new digital stuff was "better"? Dumping stuff because something new exists has a habit of leading to regret.

Imagine killing off the non-AI written word at this point in time :S

@Andrew Reid How is the video AF on this bad boy? Is it up to Sony standards for following a face etc?

On 3/16/2022 at 5:20 AM, thehebrewhammer said:

One thing that I love about the S line is the Fotodiox ND Throttle adapter, which essentially gives me an EF mount with a built in variable ND behind the lens. I have the L mount 24-105 but I never really use it. My Contax kit has been a thrill to use with this, and for a zoom I just piked up and am testing a Tokina 28-70mm 2.8.

I should definitely get one of those!

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Sorry, I probably should have been clearer with my  comment. My point was that as much as I like the output from the S1H, it seems that the FX3/a7siii are highly capable of creating amazing images, especially with that Cinetone profile, so if you really like the AF, I wouldn't necessarily say that the S1H has a highly superior image. 

yeah you're right I think, it's all very small differences now and most can be close to matched with another.

I do prefer the S1H generally but as I say I'll switch come the next Pana body if AF doesn't improve.

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

What picture profile are you shooting in on the ZV E10???

I have an a6500 and shooting in S-LOG2 with pretty much any color gamut is an act of futility.

I use either Sgamut3.cine with Slog2, or HLG with Rec2020, I spent a few days playing with both and although the road to get there is different you can make them near identical.

HLG is preferable to me cos you can expose normally, Slog2 still requires over exposure per the meters in order to look right which i find really annoying

They do seem to have exactly the same DR once you post piepline them properly though, which says to me that DR is (logically) limited by the sensor really, not which flat gamme curve you slap on it.

On 3/13/2022 at 2:11 AM, mercer said:

I've been a big fan of the S1H since it's release (I've never used one) but in those Slashcam comparison frames @kye posted on the GH6 thread, the S1H was my least favorite, by a lot, and I thought the FX3 was in the top 3 after the Komodo and Canoj R3.

Obviously, it isn't a "scientific" comparison, but it's a comparison nonetheless. I assume the FX3 footage was in the Cinetone profile and I liked the look a lot.

yeah i guess it's all preference. I now have an S1H and ZVE10 and you can match em nearly perfectly. Trouble with comparisons is everyone has a different post pipeline.

The default Pana LUT is a bit rubbish, everything goes pink.

S1H, I tried S1 but sent i back after moire issues in testing, the S1H has an OLPF.

The crop factor isn't too much of an issue. Red has it, a few other cameras do. It's only cropping to Super 35 which is still bigger than a GH5 without a speed booster.

That said I recently bought a Sony B-cam for the autofocus which is near flawless and way better than any real person I've ever seen pull.

When it comes to upgrade time I'm going to switch to Sony if Panasonic AF hasn't improved, that's despite the image quality being better on the S1H. In the end I'd rather the easier more practical life.

The A7S3 has a fair few downsides compared to S1H. But that AF makes me jealous.

I wonder if it will be TRUE Foveon, as in three full-colour layers, or not?

IIRC the later DP Quattro cameras were not quite true stacked equal RGB layers like the earlier ones, and used some trickery to get over the sensitivity downsides, though I'm googling and drawing a blank.

I had the earlier DP3 Merrill for a while, and colour and resolution wise it was phenomenal, but was so insensitive it was quite a problem getting clean pictures. You really needed to be using it at ISO100 TBH

9 hours ago, kye said:

ThusGuyEdits did an interesting video on that....

Definitely editing for short-attention spans...!

YouTube cutting sometimes makes me feel a little ill. It's usually constantly cutting within the same linear shot, so not removing content, just putting in a cut so you can constantly punch in and out, plus it's often accompanied by brickwall mastered pop tunes with every frequency at maximum all the time!

I see it as the edit being another "dimension" of movement.

In narrative it allows you to drastically alter the mood by action or inaction in terms of cuts. I'm a big fan of unexpected shot holds. The evermore frantic pace of editing in general is a bit of a shame as the actor's performance eventually ends up suppressed by the edit rather than enhanced.

A fun one is music video, for example you can move cuts on and off the rhythm of the song to enhance different things. When you're on beat it's all tied together, when you're off it creates a change in feel, the picture becomes a little less attached to the sound so you can create an extra sense of "flow" this way. As you leave the beat its more of a film backed by music, as you tighten up to the beat it's a music film.

YouTube editing seems to be inexorably tied to prescription amphetamine abuse, with even a still talking head head cutting to a new post-punch-in zoom every two seconds.

18 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Here you go, try it with this thumbnail to tick all the boxes that will get you on the front page.

It's all such a missed opportunity really.

The internet has morphed from "we put ads around what you watch, that keeps it free" to "literally everything is an advert".

It all ties up with the false narrative of infinite growth, the endless destruction of resources in order to replace goods with intentionally shortened lifespans, the rewarding of the most narcissistic and least intellectually and emotionally developed people with the greatest prizes...

I've had VR since very early on, it's cool but full of flaws, I hope more people do good things with it. But what's supposed to be the draw with a highly corporatised "metaverse"? I get to watch even more invasive adverts, have lowest-common denominator borderline-educationally subnormal "influencers" shouting and pulling WIDEMOUTH WIDEYES face directly injected into my eyes hahahah, all the while being somehow exploited for data in ever more dystopian ways? Why would I bother?

On Canonrumors chap's meltdown on Twitter, I find camera YouTube remarkably depressing because it's just endless clones of the same #content over and over saying the same things. Every person with pastel coloured backlight, every person with a softbox off to the side, every person saying the same things and doing the same tests, hoping to get their scraps from the table. Then you buy a camera and actually use it to make stuff and it is NOTHING like any of them said it would be cos they only scratch the surface and move on to pulling pogface beside the next piece of gear...

I was thinking maybe I should make a vid that is a "2 years in" review of the S1H cos it'd be a bit different, but I bet the algorithms would just hide it because it isn't selling the latest trending model. That's how disheartening it is, it just makes me think "why bother".

I cancelled my paid Vimeo a year back as i wasn't using it and YouTube provides a better service for free.

I don't really see a future for Vimeo TBH. From the poor playback performance to their summary deletion of videos there's nothing in their "offer" that keeps me there. I've downloaded all my old videos and will likely delete the account so it is one less to think about.

At one point when i was working in Soho everyone wanted to be a "Vimeo Staff Pick" but it very quickly became a self parody of fart-sniffing self congratulatory hipness. Now it's just irrelevant tbh.

I have to say the tendency for youtubers to test IBIS in ultra slow motion (basically pointless) and autofocus by THROWING THEMSELVES BACK AND FORTH SHOUTING is really starting to grate on me

It's pretty saturated out there and getting hard to tell the difference between one channel and the next these days

actually just the shouting alone is doing my head in going through these videos.  🤣

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

 (and really, I doubt the GH6 is that bad),

Sadly if you go and check out reviews, it's pretty bad AF still. Still does that hunting at the end of pulls, still pulses constantly on interview setups,

People just need to pick based on that I guess. It is a proper bullet in the foot from Pana though. It's the only thing that stops these cameras absolutely dominating, and does make you think in a paranoid way that Sony probably just don't let them have PD on purpose

Hopefully since it's "AI based" they can improve it incrementally with firmware updates

5 minutes ago, bjohn said:

If you were to set aside autofocus (something I have never used in video and likely never will; I don't even have any lenses capable of it apart from one Panasonic that I don't use anymore), how do these two (GH6 and OM1) stack up against each other?

In that case my instinct is with GH6 due to it's similarity with the S1H and its clear focus on video. Typical of Panasonic the settings, menus and so on appear to include pretty much everything you can do with a camera.

They're done everything they can to mitigate the physical issues of a small sensor, including implementing the dual-gain architecture, so for manual use I'd whack a speed-booster on the GH6 to boost the light input and sensor size and use that TBH.

I've not used either so I'm going off the available YouTube reviews etc

On 1/24/2022 at 11:59 AM, BTM_Pix said:

In the first instance, it will be about simple static background replacement compositing but will move on to more "synthetic set" 3D territory both for narrative but also multi camera for virtual studio applications.

There will also be a side aspect of creating 3D assets for the sets but that won't be happening until some comfort level of how to actually use them is achieved !

And the ultimate objective ?

I'm not expecting to be producing The Mandalorian in my spare bedroom but I am hoping to end up in a position where a very low-fi version of the techniques used in it can be seen to be viable. I'm also hopeful that I can get a two camera virtual broadcast studio setup working for my upcoming YouTube crossover channel Shockface which is a vlog about a gangster who sells illicit thumbnails to haplessly addicted algorithm junkies.

I'm fully expecting this journey to make regular stops at "Bewilderment", "Fuck Up", "Disillusionment" and "Poverty" but if you'd like to be an observer then keep an eye on this thread as it unfolds.

Or more likely hurtles off the rails.

Oh and from my initial research about the current state of play, there may well be a product or two that I develop along the way to use with it too...

I'm at intermediate level with Unreal in general, though I've not used VP templates yet, but I have made motion graphics pieces, developed small games (including entirely custom player controllers built from ground up etc etc) so I'm fascinated by VP as well.

As far as I understand it it's something where cost spirals very very quickly as you scale up to multiple screens. With one screen, let's say you buy a 90-inch 4K OLED or something, you can use a consumer GPU and get away with it.

Once you want to sync walls of video screens you'll need to use a Quadro Sync and have colossal amounts of VRAM available. https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/design-visualization/solutions/quadro-sync/

Like most Unreal things it's WIP and you benefit if you know someone who is good with C++ and Unreal, which is hard to find. For example movie render queue in 4.27 is very much improved compared to previous versions, but still has some really hacky and opaque aspects, such as the need to enter arbitrary CVARs to make certain things look right, which you just have to go and find out, it doesn't hold your hand. It's no Resolve...

In general that's the hardest part. I've been on the Unreal journey for 3 years and it has never gotten easier, mainly because there is always something new to learn and stuff just keeps changing. It's very rewarding though, good luck and please keep us updated!

So far all the OM1 clips for AF have shown it focusing brilliantly, and I just saw Gerald's AF test for the GH6 and it is a pulsing nightmare.

Its a weird thing to to just keep going with something that doesn't work, when everyone tells you it doesn't work, and you can actually see it doesnt work haha 

Oh well...

But yes the OM looks better and better, I think it could be the surprise of the year.

I'm guessing even the quad AF may be sluggish with adapted lenses through a speedbooster? 

I really am guessing as i don't know haha

But is that generally the case?

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Oh the joys of rural France...

I've often stayed in for long periods in the far south east. It is quite hard to get anything done haha

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

If log is a need, I've heard they've improved it, but don't hold your breath. Olympus hasn't been good at log in recent years. I'd wait if I were you if absolutely need this feature.

Really it's just decent DR that is a need, whether that is LOG or HLG. Is the issue the colour response of said LOG profile?