Neumann Films

2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

For someone like @Neumann Films I can imagine 12K is very tempting/useful for his stock footage work. Basically makes it future proof for years and years to come. 

Exactly. I don't like re-work or having to redo things. So if I travel somewhere or take time to set up a fun creative shoot...I'd like that to be "sellable" for as long as humanly possible.

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Interesting.

But why?

Money, I guess. There's the obvious candidates (display manufacturers) but then there's weird ones that I had never thought of. Major streaming platforms, codec developers, peripherals. Not so much in the western world but they are all about pushing that tech in the East. 

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is marketing shenanigans.

A banner halo product to say "We make the best technology and have 12K, but Canon only has 8K".

I don't think it exists because of demand or creativity, or doing what Pocket customers want.

 

There is most definitely demand. I can verify that a hundred times over. Just not with consumers. 

Did anyone hear/notice any info on release date?

11 minutes ago, Django said:

Meh.. fairly standard practice from them. Pre-pandemic this type of launch would have warranted a big hoopla press event in a staged environment with media card doors sealed but instead they went with sending preproduction cameras with NDAs on footage etc.

We’ll have to wait for production units to get more than the “hands-on” review.. 

I got my pre order in fairly quickly and Adorama is saying July 30th. 

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's becoming a bit like the Japanese car industry where all the different models are homogeneous.

This is a really interesting take that I haven't heard or thought of before. 

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Music. I like how you can choose to be a solo artist or be in a group. Filmmakers don't quite have the same luxury if we want to make really good stuff  We need actors, writers, at the very least an interesting model or subject to shoot. Musicians just pick up an instrument, and write music

Have you ever thought about or pursued orchestral/electronic stuff with samples? That's my real passion (for similar reasons to you) and it's easier now than ever. Such an instantly expressive and creatively satisfying thing compared to film!

@Video Hummus To be fair, continuing to be involved in any form of social media and/or filmmaking requires a little bit of masochism.

12 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

but slightly bouncy floaty handheld look I don’t like and it spoils most of Netflix for me because all I am aware of is the camera operator!

I've been noticing this more too, I think it's just more practical for episodic stuff though. Going from tripod to gimbal to dolly takes time. So just leave the camera on the gimbal and have the operator stand still for the "tripod shot". That seems to be the logic. 

Long time member, infrequent communicator here.

I got into it a bit with Mr. Reid the other day for the first time. After discussing it with him privately, I found that he and I were much more similar in our views than I first thought. He and I both just had bad days...on the same day. So that got me thinking...I spend time here, it has been a resource for me in the past (whether educational or casual reading/browsing). I think it's easy to take a site like this for granted. We tend to just assume there's a team or that it is all automated. It's not, it's one guy and it takes time from his day and other things.

So, I wanted to do an AMA and get to know him a bit more. I will start it off. Please post questions in bold + italic and tag "@Andrew Reid".

@Andrew Reid What art form interests you the most outside of film? Also...what is your favorite CURRENT local restaurant (no chains)?

PS...I know Andrew is too humble to make this sticky or pin it. But I think it should be. If it is sticky or pinned it's because I'm requesting it. 

I think it would be good for the health of the site for people to have a better sense of who is behind it. It would add a personality that would make things more civil and you would probably notice that you don't get stressed as much. 🙂 

1 minute ago, PaulUsher said:

Agreed. Plenty of room then for intelligent and creative types like us to revolutionise the form, or else it stays this way.

The only thing that I have found that works is: narrative stuff with BTS to show how it was done. The problem is that...it's not a financially stable or viable system. I can afford to do them maybe once a year. Which is totally fine, it just doesn't lead to growth. So, you couldn't really do that as a starting point and expect a channel to grow. Well, maybe you could, I just think it would be tough. 

The nice thing about YouTube is that there are probably 1,000 different ways to do it and still be unique and different. Narrative + BTS isn't the only way, it's just the only thing that's worked on my channel thus far. That and 8K videos 😂

26 minutes ago, PaulUsher said:

Yeah agreed this style needs to evolve. The problem with these guys (not just the tech tubers but the lifestyle YouTubers etc too) is that they too readily become salespeople. Audiences tire of that. That they don’t use their influence / activate their audience to fund and produce their own films is telling. It seems they’d rather be YouTubers than filmmakers...

I’ve always felt like you should make any money you want to make OFF site. Keep your channel as clean as possible from advertisers or sponsors. It just clouds everything. It’s not just YouTube though. I was asked to help do some stuff on a travel/nature series and had a bunch of stuff written up for how to make it exciting and engaging only to find that 50% of each episode was devoted to sponsors and promoting their businesses. So, instead of “trying to make an engaging show” the job became “creative ways to feature sponsors”. It’s pretty limiting if that is your starting point.

The truth is that YouTube is going all hive mind (like Reddit or any other social media conglomerate) and any uniqueness becomes monetized, packaged and then replicated to the point of parody. How many people have a “What’s up guys!” intro that is copy and pasted from everyone else? How about the same lighting in their studio background? Same thumbnails, same titles, same content. It’s become junk food ready for mass consumption. Icky.

13 minutes ago, PaulUsher said:

we will certainly see more innovate and quality work on YouTube/online in the coming years.

Oh, I agree, but I don’t think it will be in this format. This style is on its final legs IMO. Wide angle handheld, talking to the camera, padding run time to get to 10+ minutes. Audiences are slowly catching on to the runtime pads and are being turned off by it. Enough people leave and creators will go back to more condensed content or evolve to actually make meaningful 10+ minute videos.

Huh, Vlogging is still a thing, eh? I figured it would have run its course by now. Maybe 8K RAW doesn’t make sense for 10+ minutes of mindless fluff. Just a hunch.

Just now, Andrew Reid said:

When it dies in the middle of a shot will the first thought be "I am glad Canon pushed the camera industry forward" or will it be "why did I spend £4000 on this because Peter McKinnon said it was the GRAIL CAMERA"?

Depends on whether you are an eternal pessimist or not, I suppose 😛

My personal outlook will remain unchanged. I shot a short film in 6 second chunks at -16 Q Scale to get a higher bitrate on the T2i when Magic Lantern first came out. And I loved it. Squeezing the best IQ out of a camera is right up my alley...and I thought yours as well but you seemed to have changed your tune since I was last here.

9 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Take the Pocket 4K, first to bring 4K RAW to the masses.  Okay, no flip screen, poor battery life, no IBIS or AF, no weather sealant, but it still did it.  And many like me struggle through the issues to make it work for us.

Yup, this is the point I have been trying to make but you have made it more eloquently!

Blackmagic pushed other entry level camera makers to include similar specs and try to beat them at price point. The R5 represents a pretty sizable leap forward in what we can expect to have in a camera. Many of these things were thought to be impossible to even get into a single camera and they somehow got all of them! This will push Blackmagic, Panasonic, Sony and all others to either lower the price of their future offerings or innovate and add new tech.

In that scenario, we all win.

5 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

It wasn't made for anyone in particular.  In fact, it was made more for Photographers than Videographers.  The fact that some video users benefit from it is of course a plus.  The fact that many can't is a negative.  

Its better to say that the camera isnt usuable for some video shooters rather than made for.  

Clip limits are a big negative for me.  Not for you clearly.  But the fact that your shooting needs can be met by the R5 doesn't mean those of us that are not, can't at least discuss it.  Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a fullframe camera from Canon with their great AF that would fit my needs.  

I am still waiting......  

Probably true, but shouldn't we be fine with that? I'm happy that they just pushed tech forward so far. All it means is that other companies will now feel the pressure to add more features at a cheaper price point...so the consumer wins. Anytime this has happened it's a good thing. When Tesla pushed the envelope, other car manufacturers followed and now almost all major companies have an EV model. Good for humanity. If not for Tesla pushing the boundaries it would have taken longer and probably been more expensive.

There are examples of this in many industries and I always think it's a positive. The fact that THIS specific camera doesn't fit a lot of peoples needs isn't the thing I'm happy about, it helps me specifically and I'm in the minority, but it's still a positive for everyone. It just means everyone will get the tech they are looking for sooner and likely cheaper. 

I would obviously prefer no clip limits but this is coming from someone who adopted Magic Lantern in the very early days and shot entire projects in 10 second chunks due to buffers. I've had entire projects ruined by RED cameras. I'm just used to having to do little workarounds. So for me, it doesn't seem like this is some big thing that people need to freak out over. If you wanted/needed 8K RAW and some of these other specs, it sucks to have to deal with the clip limit but it certainly shouldn't be a deal breaker. You just workaround it and deal with it (assuming the work allows for that).

My overall point remains, from a big picture point of view...I'm glad they pushed the envelope and included the tech vs. leaving it out. It might make this specific camera unusable for some but it's a major win for the industry as a whole. Again, before this point RED owned 8K and they charged $30,000 to even begin shooting. This camera marks the entry level for 8K and that is something that will be a benchmark that is remembered years from now. Many many many shooters will create mind blowing stuff with this camera, I can guarantee that.

Just now, Cliff Totten said:

I suspect that most of us here would have traded 8k technology and given it back in favor of RELIABILITY.

 

Probably true...this camera wasn’t made for you then. Also, how can anyone pretend to know how reliable or unreliable it is until you actually use it on a shoot? It might be better than we thought and it might be worse. Speculating is just that...speculation. Time will tell.

11 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Neither am I, but.......... 😄

But...what?

My videos are going to companies like Amazon, Samsung and TCL for display showcases or hardware/software testing. These applications SPECIFICALLY require 8K.

12 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I hope to one day look forward to watching your 8K videos on my 5" phone screen. 😄

I’m not shooting anything for a phone screen. 😂

9 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I think you'll find others here shoot as a fulltime job too.  😉

Canon hasn't given people want they want.  I don't recall people asking for 8K RAW. 

(raises hand)

I did. I realize it’s not for everyone but I’m extremely happy with what they did. It’s legitimately my dream camera for this moment in time.

Do with that what you will, my point is...Canon has given SOME people what they want. Just not everyone, but no one ever does!

3 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

While 20 mins overheating times in certain modes are a bummer and could be a problem for some people, I for one, am glad they took the “lets put the feature in” versus saying “heat limitations wouldn’t have allowed it” and released something less exciting or useful and would haven been lambasted for it as well.

 It’s a lose-lose for them and they made the better decision here in my humble opinion.

Wether the headline is “R5 falls short: only offers 4K60p cropped” or “R5 has potential to overheat when recording 8K RAW(!) 4K120p(!), or oversampled 4K from 8K HQ mode(!). The later headline is forgivable!

Say it again. A little louder for everyone in this sub.

For a company that has been ridiculed for not innovating (most of all...here on this site), they made the correct call. It's a leap forward and I applaud them for it. It will push everyone to follow suit! To solve this problem they would have had to leave out IBIS or AF. They kept them BOTH in.

It's really a remarkable technical achievement. After talking with Panasonic engineers a lot in the past about this stuff...the fact that they were able to cram all of this in is surprising.

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

"Little issues"

Is it just me or does the information I posted on the blog post indicate a complete show-stopper of an issue?

It depends on how competent you are at overcoming a cameras faults/quirks. They all have 'em. I have plenty of horror stories from working with RED cameras. It's part of the job...always has been, probably always will be.

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You'd expect for £4000 the Canon would provide a bullet proof professional 4K camera - it's what we expect.

You...expected 8K RAW internal with IBIS and AF without overheating? I'm fairly certain the camera would lose IBIS or RAW and personally I am THRILLED that they decided not to do that. Again, this is coming from one of Canon's most vocal detractors. What was in your tea today?!

19 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

He hasn't even used it yet

Neither have you 🤯

23 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nitpicking?

Don't shoot the messenger!

It's hardly nitpicking if the camera goes off in the middle of a shoot is it?

What happens if you lose a shot and have to down tools for 10 minutes, and then can only go for a few minutes more before the same happens again?

How in any way is that fit for purpose professionally or for paid work?

And for live stuff, documentaries, interviews, it's a complete non-starter.

I'd much rather have a fan in there like the Panasonic S1H and know it is fit for paid work, or even Netflix.

Can you imagine the EOS R5 getting Netflix approval, only for the entire production to be downed countless times in one session due to the overheating problems?

Here is the work that I will be using it for that it makes perfect sense to utilize:

- Short Films

- Music Videos

- Commercials

- Stock Footage

- Pro Stills

- BTS

- YouTube videos

I previously used a RED Helium for this work and just sold it for this. That saved me $25,000.

I don’t do weddings or corporate stuff so it’s not an issue for me. You know how you overcome little issues like overheating? You practice and use the camera enough to know it’s quirks and then you shoot/plan around them.

I’m happy to let my footage do the talking to bring more of you over to my camp.

I think it’s an incredible achievement and nitpicking about stuff that can easily be worked around is...a bit much. To each his own though, it’s your investment and you know what you need in a camera. It’s my A cam for just about everything. For everything it doesn’t work for, I will rent. Easy.