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Blackmagic price drop by a third on Cinema Camera and active mount mFT camera on the way

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:20 PM

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Blackmagic Cinema Camera - anamorphic rig

Blackmagic CEO Grant Petty has today mapped out the company's camera roadmap.

  • The Blackmagic Cinema Camera has a new aggressive price point. A drop of $1000 to the price of a Canon 6D - $1995.

  • Active mount version of Blackmagic Cinema Camera mFT on the way, making existing model obsolete

  • Next firmware V1.5 will add new features


Read the full article here

#2
AaronChicago

Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:42 PM

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$3k was already a tremendous bargain. $2k for this camera is just unreal.



#3
Dan Wake

Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

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does it suffer from Aliasing and Moire? thanks


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#4
tosvus

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

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Wow, that is fantastic. I'm going to have to take a second look at the 2.5k mft version now... I do wish it had an active mount though.



#5
Zach

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

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I have to say this has been the strangest product release/business model i've ever seen. But I'm certainly not complaining. I'm certainly excited to use the black magic as a rental for a documentary i'm shooting next summer, hoping rental prices drop accordingly! 



#6
HurtinMinorKey

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

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First off, I think this is great. What a deal for this camera.

 

As an economist, i'm trying to understand how this move fits into BMD's overall strategy. This is what I've come up with: Just a few months ago, the BMCC was supply constrained, so they announce the BMPC and the Pocket Camera to take some pressure off the BMCC. Now it appears that the pocket camera is supply constrained (and the BMPC will be too), so they drop the price of the BMCC, because it's now available.

 

Just a theory, and probably not 100% of the story, because I'm sure RAW on the 5D3 factored in there somewhere too, but it seems like a strategy to try and limit the frustration with the BMD supply chain SNAFU.

 

But either way, BMD is really putting it to the Asian manufacturers. I'm sure the Ninja assassins are sharpening their katana blades and catching the next boat to Australia as we speak.


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#7
Bruno

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:32 PM

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I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...

 

The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!

 

For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!

 

I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.

 

Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.

(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )


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#8
Vidrios

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

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I will say this, as I'm sure there will be people who are infuriated.  If you look at this as a Kickstarter campaign, you essentially crowdfunded a company's first camera. $2995 would get you a camera before everyone else (yes even with all the shipping problems).  A few friends of mine have received there's.  In truth they said to me, it's a little annoying, but hey, we have our cameras and that's the price of being one of the first owners even if they did come late. Anyway on kickstarter campaigns, as we know, there are great products and when one invests in a product, you will pay the price for it. 

 

This goes with virtually any product on the market.  Apple should make us all very familiar to this process. Heck I paid nearly $6000.00 for their Mac Pro bundle in 2006, and the price steadily dropped to the point where you can have the same specs in a freakin' Macbook Air for $999 today. Back to my Kickstarter campaign analogy.  Many times when a small company tries to get its foot in the door on making a new product we all want and could not afford before, many of us will invest with that company and try to be among the first.  Problems happen.  Some kickstarters never even come to full fruition but many, usually end up delivering later than anticipated. 

 

Let's take Defygimbal or Besteady for example. These two companies are creating the best competition to Freeflysystems ridiculously overpriced (like Canon)MōVI. In order for these companies to get their feet off the ground, sometimes you still have to pay a price to do it that may be pricier than you thought it would be. Defy's $2300 Gimbal only gets you 2 lbs of weight capacity.  But know what? It works and works well!! Once you figure in the cost of materials and what it takes to build it than it becomes understandable.  And then Besteady's first product is priced at $600 more but for that price you get nearly 4lbs of weight capacity. 

 

Maybe in the future when more people buy these products these will drop in price as well. It's the cost we pay of being the first in line.  It's just many of us were used to being so darn upset at Blackmagic that all we can do is get mad.  I still say, if they make us upset, fine but we have a decision on whether or not to purchase products through this company or the next. It's still an uphill battle. They're fighting against Canon, Nikon, Sony, and RED but all these company's are arrogant, and have a right to be. They've had decades of establishing themselves as industry leaders. But tell me this, name any other company that offers 3 cameras who all produce a RAW image, one is 1080p, one is 2.5k and the top of the line is 4k with global shutter and super 35 for $1000, $2000 and $4000 and offer the industry leading color correction program for free with two of those offerings?  I have been rooting for these guys from the beginning and now for $2000.00 you can own a proper 2.5k camera? Could they be improved with aliasing and moire, telling you the battery life, letting you delete your clips in camera, telling you how much ssd room you have left? yes a million times over yes, but if this is their first offering of cameras, I hope they eventually get to the point in the next 2 years of seriously disruping the market.  Canon's C300 is way over priced and so is their 1DC, but hey people will pay for it because it's a sure thing.  Now you can get 4k raw with globaal shutter for $4k.  I hope we can say , TAKE THAT CANON! (maybe a sub $10k C300 price drop in the near future?) We shall see. I love the free market for this reason.  Competition is good.  Let's enjoy it. We who buy these products are investors who want these guys to succeed. There WILL BE moments that anger us. Let it be what it is.  Don't forget even Apple has had huge shipping delays on their products that are unexpected.  I'm not looking to compare the two companies. I'm just saying, this company, Blackmagic Design, is changing the game for us Indy filmmakers and this is an exciting time for us.  We used to have to kill ourselves and go into severe debt to get in the game. Not anymore. 


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#9
Rockect Sky Sword

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:52 PM

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I was checking the blackmagic page when I saw the 1,995 price tag... 8_8. I will believe it another day, for now I'm speechless. 



#10
HurtinMinorKey

Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

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For the record: I bought one in April, and i'm not the least bit angry. I figure if it wasn't for BMD, i'd have ended up spending more on a camera anyway.

 

And even though i'm not religious or spiritual (at all), I think the parable of the vineyard workers applies here:

 

http://en.wikipedia....in_the_Vineyard

 

I really do think it's amazing. There are soo many things that go into film making that are expensive, at this point the camera body shouldn't be prohibitive. 



#11
Rockect Sky Sword

Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:11 PM

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Just checking, I think there is an error on the post.

      "for only an extra $1000 they can get 2.5K raw, a larger sensor area, HD-SDI, XLR, larger screen"

The BMCC does not have XLR input. 

 


 



#12
rygenova

Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

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The BMCC has 1/4" balanced audio inputs, which, with a proper cable or adapter, is essentially XLR.



#13
Jeff Orig

Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:31 PM

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Two points I want to add.

 

1.  Will this be another Blackmagic Design over-promise and under-deliver?  Another huge shipping delay could occur because of something unexpected happening.   For example, they get more orders than expected combined with some sort of supply chain delay cause problems again.  

 

2.  I agree with Vidrios and just want to reiterate that regardless of Black Magic's history of over-promising and under-delivering, these are still truly amazing times to be a filmmaker.  Just a few years ago we dreamed of shooting images of the quality you can get on a  Canon T2i.  Now, you can get a used T2i for under $400!  WTF?  You can't even get 4 minutes of 16mm film processed and transferred to HD for $400.  See http://www.colorlab.com/ for pricing on that.  

 

Anyone that is upset about Blackmagic, Canon, Sony, Red, etc. should take a step back and calm down.  These are exciting times and we should all be grateful for all of the tools available to us.  Aren't you shooting on something already?  If you think the tool is going to make you a better craftsmen, think again.  Good filmmakers can take whatever tool is handed to them and make something good.  

 

But if you are still truly upset, then, go make your own camera.  If you really know what's best and it's easy enough to criticize someone else, then why don't you go and fix it and go be a millionaire selling the world's greatest camera.  Yes, this previous statement is a little sarcastic but it's really meant to put it all in perspective.  I really believe these companies are doing what they think is best.  You can't please all of the people all of the time.  Camera makers and anyone that makes anything has to make choices that won't be perfect for everyone and maybe not even for most people.

 

Either way, thanks to Andrew for this blog, thanks to all the camera makers for these awesome tools, and thanks to all the filmmakers that share their knowledge.  Truly amazing times.


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#14
Andrew Reid

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:08 PM

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But if you are still truly upset, then, go make your own camera.

 

Great solution! OH hang on where did I put my sensor lab, firmware programmers and last but not least my spanner.


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#15
ScreensPro

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:10 PM

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At such a price, it must be a loss leader, or at the very best, breaking even.... Getting filmmakers to move over to Resolve and into their system



#16
eleison

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

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At such a price, it must be a loss leader, or at the very best, breaking even.... Getting filmmakers to move over to Resolve and into their system

 

 

It's not a loss leader.  I stil think they are making good money off of it.  Blackmagic is smaller and more nimble compared to the bigger companies.  After all, I bet Blackmagic doesn't have to pay for the legions of field representitives, and other support staff that Canon and the other manufactors have.  I don't even think Blackmagic has a very big advertising budget as compared to the big guys. They are cutting their margins because they can.....  it's their competitive advantage compared to the big guys and blackmagic is exploiting it to the max.  After all, the hype of the 5d3 RAW will doubtlessly become less pronounced now...



#17
TJB

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:54 PM

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What a mess.


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#18
Tzedekh

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:00 PM

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Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.

(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

 

I believe BMD said they were going to add compressed raw to the BMCC in a future firmware update. I wish they would license CineForm RAW. I still think they could do it very cheaply. And now that the BMCC is so much cheaper, I'd bet a lot of users would pay for the ability to record directly to CineForm RAW.



#19
Andrew Reid

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:06 PM

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Compressed raw will be Cinema DNG 2:1



#20
roccoforte

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

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Hey Andrew - would you mind sharing where you got those awesome wooded handles from on the BMCC? - http://www.eoshd.com...and-handles.jpg - they're great!






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