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Shootout of the 4K flagships - Canon 1D C versus Samsung NX1


Andrew Reid
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I have used both the A7S and GH4 in recent weeks, and while each camera has its charms, I wasn't really feeling the image that much. Too digital, too plastic-y, not enough soul. And while much of this can be rectified by recording externally and doing color-grading, Canons are much more pleasing straight from the camera.

Yep Generally agreed, but lets wait and see (and wait and wait and wait.......) what the V-Log brings to the GH4.
Everyone thats used it has said the color science is vastly improved, Jordan dropped using the A7S as his B Cam when he got the V-Log GH4...
Panasonic can do it, So can Sony....I am sure of that.
In Panasonics case its probably a good move to get the V-Log out and stop sitting on their hands.

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What i like most about the C-series is that the DR/colour is similar throughout the ISO range (until you hit crazy ISO).

If they were wise, they would drop that C300 mkII sensor into a DSLR body and launch it as a flasghip video DSLR and perfect B cam to the C300 II. Priced around £8k.

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Hollywood wanted a 4K DSLR so Canon saw an opportunity and enabled 1.3x 4K crop video mode on their 1D X. The 1D C was born and the £12,000 price tag made sure nobody bought it.

With the Samsung NX1, the consumer didn't want 4K H.265 but is getting it anyway, because Samsung wants them to buy that lovely 4K TV to view the footage with. This is called technological progress, where more powerful machines are thrust upon an unexpected public and everyone gets excited.

Now the two world collide in this shoutout. Expect fireworks!

The Samsung NX1 is currently on special offer for $1299 at B&H

Read the full article

To my eye the NX1 color looks more natural. The 1DC color looks like the sort of photographs cameras in the 70s would take. I think that is where the color bias comes from, people are trying to mimic the color of old film rather than the color that really is there.

It is also looks like the NX1 has somewhat better resolution than the 1DC as well.

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To my eye the NX1 color looks more natural. The 1DC color looks like the sort of photographs cameras in the 70s would take. I think that is where the color bias comes from, people are trying to mimic the color of old film rather than the color that really is there.

It is also looks like the NX1 has somewhat better resolution than the 1DC as well.

I would say the opsite. In the shootout the 1dc strikes me as more realistic. The world doesn't look to my eyes like what the nx1 shows. 

But of course, neither you or I know what where talking about. We weren't there.  

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You can't be serious. Did you watch the original 4K download? NX1 stood its ground beautifully and even topped 1Dc in resolution (not sharpness) in several spots. To say 1Dc annihilates NX1 is serious hyperbole. The only place I thought NX1 looked cheap in comparison was the garden (trees and bushes) shot.

I can be serious. The 1DC is a superior image, and so it should be! (considering price). 

The NX1 is great for the money, and has features the 1DC should of had. Cinema DSLR without peaking, zebras? Eh? 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Definitely. The inability to complete turn of digital sharpening in a camera makes it instantly look video-like, it's a big limitation. Not bad but both choices must be present on a cinema/video camera.

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NX1 has better resolution. That's true. But 1DC looks definitively better... better in dynamic range. Other parameters like colors etc to me depends on the abilities to grade something... For example you can get really bad colors from an Alexa if you want to... but from the start it has better basis to grade well... i think it's possible with NX1 to have neutral and well suited colors but it's definitively harder... I've looked some really great A7S footage with good neutral colors but it's very rare...

 

So for me, NX1 for the price is really good, but 1DC looks better. Point.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

NX1 has better resolution. 

My eyes see identical resolution, but the nx1 has heavy digital sharpening added in-camera.

This is confirmed by Andrews 1DC + Première sharpening vs NX1,

 same detail (resolution) and sharpness. 

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Okay I have to chime in here on the NX1 sharpness that everyone is harping on. Sharpness is not an issue unless it's creating visual artifacts like moire. Like adding sharpening, you can blur the image to your hearts content in most modern editors. Also you can use diffusion and filters to get the look you want. I would rather have the sharp image and reduce it than have to artificially sharpen an image. 

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Seriously the 'sharpness' of the NX1 is NOT an advantage.

4K should be soft.

There I said it...

Otherwise it just looks digital and WAY too harsh for any kind of human being in front of the lens.

We're talking better resolution for NX1, NOT sharpness. You can sharpen the 1Dc image all you want, but you aren't going to get the detail that just isn't there. See below a grab from your video to see what I mean. I've sharpened the 1Dc image to look similar, but you can see it doesn't have the same detail.

NX1-1Dc.jpg

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Okay I have to chime in here on the NX1 sharpness that everyone is harping on. Sharpness is not an issue unless it's creating visual artifacts like moire. Like adding sharpening, you can blur the image to your hearts content in most modern editors. Also you can use diffusion and filters to get the look you want. I would rather have the sharp image and reduce it than have to artificially sharpen an image. 

Nope you cannot remove local edge-enhancing sharpening in post, you can only add it. Applying a global Gaussian blur filter will not work to remove the in-camera inherent digital sharpening algorithm and turn it to a 1Dc-like image.

 

We're talking better resolution for NX1, NOT sharpness. You can sharpen the 1Dc image all you want, but you aren't going to get the detail that just isn't there. See below a grab from your video to see what I mean. I've sharpened the 1Dc image to look similar, but you can see it doesn't have the same detail.

NX1-1Dc.jpg

http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1d-c-nx1-sharpness-crops-702x1300.png

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Imo, a camera that has more detail but low dynamic range isn't a winner. 

Why have a little extra detail in leaves if the sky is blown. Talk about lost detail when half the picture is missing. 

I'm not saying it's in this test, just a proactive comment on where I think this discussion might end up.  

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Imo, a camera that has more detail but low dynamic range isn't a winner. 

Why have a little extra detail in leaves if the sky is blown. Talk about lost detail when half the picture is missing. 

I'm not saying it's in this test, just a proactive comment on where I think this discussion might end up.  

Mattias, nobody is saying NX1 is the winner; we're just pointing out an area in which NX1 is doing better since this is a head to head comparison.

Ebrahim, if you see the image I posted, you'll note that it is a closer crop and shows the differences in detail much better than what Andrew posted. Please do take a look.

 

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Mattias, nobody is saying NX1 is the winner; we're just pointing out an area in which NX1 is doing better since this is a head to head comparison.

I must clarify once again, I'm not talking about this test. Just a comment.

And of course it's not a winner, neither is the 1DC. Which camera is better than another is always 100% subjective and can only be answered by the person buying it. 

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My eyes see identical resolution, but the nx1 has heavy digital sharpening added in-camera.

This is confirmed by Andrews 1DC + Première sharpening vs NX1,

 same detail (resolution) and sharpness. 

Yes you're right, the difference is the sharpness. They have both the same resolution. That's not a good option to not be able to shut it off when you want... in this favor i prefer the 1DC. That's what i wanted to say.

Thanks for the correction Ebrahim.

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"The Canon colour science I can only describe as magic."

I completely agree.  Also, I highly recommend those of you getting a used 1dc to pick up this EVF; it is amazing (and light) and mounts solidly on the hotshoe:

Kinotehnik LCDVFe Electronic Viewfinder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171868008333?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I paid $560 for mine (used) about 2 weeks ago also on ebay.

It has 5 presets and you can set different zoom levels for each preset, then MAP each preset to up/down/right/left.  I have "up" mapped to standard framing / hit up again and I see my over AND underexposed areas, and hit up again I get focus peaking.  You can do false colors, crop marks, B&W, continuous histograms.  I have left/bottom/right set to different zoom levels - I do 2x, 1:1, and 4x (left right bottom).  All can be done while recording - and the LCDVFE runs off of 4 AA batteries (I get about 5 hours) and has a spare battery cage included for a quick hot-swap.  Lastly, I bucked up and paid $155 for the remote control for this, so I can toggle all the settings with my right hand while pulling focus with my left.  The damn viewfinder weighs less than a pound without batteries and you can flip the loupe back and use it like a regular small retina monitor.

Andrew, I cannot recommend this enough.

Shawn

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To my eye the NX1 color looks more natural. The 1DC color looks like the sort of photographs cameras in the 70s would take.

Lol!  Cameras didn't impart a "look" onto images in the 70s!  They used something called "film."  The camera was a box that exposed film to light... That's all.

So the question is do I bite on the 200 off on the nx1 by tomorrow or do I wait until the last minute (maybe the car ride to the hospital?)

Ebay $1,149.00 NEW... 5 available.

Ebay $1,090.00 REFURBISHED... 3 available.  90 day warranty.

Check the details yourself.  That $200 off is nice but it's been discounted before and it will be discounted again.  I'm not a pro, so no way I pay $1,500 for the NX1.

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Two questions:

"In this way 4K opens the door to very very high quality 1080p with 10bit luma & 4:4:4 colour sampling if you use the right workflow –" (1) could you be more specific on your workflow here?

(2) In your opinion, can these NX1 shortcomings be fixed via firmware updates if Samsung wanted to do it? (I.e. Higher bitrate recording, color science tweaks) if so, what are the odds they will?

 

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