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Their.Tube - YouTube completely in bed with QAnon, etc. promoting bullshit for clicks


Andrew Reid

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24 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

So what if you or @newfoundmassdon't like the LBRY.tv website? You could go to odysee.com instead (also based on the LBRY blockchain). Or even.... make your own based on the LBRY blockchain! That's the beauty of it, there is no one Google (or Fox/CNN/whoever) controlling what you see and what is or isn't "allowed". If you don't like it, you can even roll your own. 

So how is that different than an self imposed echo chamber?

25 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Please share screen shots! This is what I see (and from memory, this looks pretty similar-ish to the random collection of videos when I first visited LBRY.tv):

The other problem with this separate from this site in particular is the whole “recommendation” platform and incentive these platforms have to keep you viewing on their platform. People end up getting recommended content that doesn’t give them a diverse range. Google is the worst. 

 

28 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or even.... roll your own platform! As I said before, this is the beauty of LBRY

So I can roll my own and have it select only videos about a singular agenda I might want to promote (say kicking out all immigrants) and then advertise this website as “news”. This is exactly the problem with the current situation. People live in fantasy bubbles and can’t even agree on a consistent reality. White is black. No black is white. No the sky is up. Sky is down. Mix in partisanship and hate (that is actively prompted) and it leads to violence in the most unstable. 

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Read my take on it here... https://www.eoshd.com/news/down-the-rabbit-hole-view-the-youtube-front-page-as-others-do/ View the YouTube front page as others do: https://www.their.tube

Some idiots came first. Many idiots came after the algorithm. The reasons are many. The dissemination and profiteering (by the social tech companies) is just part of the problem. The profits

All YouTube video AI chains end the same- insane, violent, bizarre, and extreme. It doesn't even matter what you start with... eventually it goes there and you have to choose which road accident to wa

Posted Images

7 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Except free speech doesn’t often cover some of the content they show you.

Is promoting violence ok? Many people think not. And the issue is a slippery slope for drawing a line in the sand. 

What does promoting violence entail? Unless its a call to violent action which I agree should be removed. 

But I am on the extreme side of the free speech argument, libertarian you could say, which IMHO is very different from the whole Nationalist Trump way of thinking. 

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3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

And if you're not already aware of the well known ways to get papers for free, here you go:

And this is wrong in my opinion and it would be in the best interest of proper peer review journals to crack down and fight this kind of greed.

6 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

We already have elected governments who draws up laws when it comes to free speech, let's leave enforcement to them rather than expecting everyone else to do the government's job for them.

Except when the gov’t is made up of elected people...people who then go on to ignore or repeal laws. Governance starts at the bottom like it or not.

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4 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

What does promoting violence entail? Unless its a call to violent action which I agree should be removed. 

Yes so you see the rub. You can call people to violence indirectly. Lots of atrocities have been promoted and achieved through this kind of crap. So it’s always a balance and I’m of the opinion the balance is no longer their because we now have technology that had outpaced our traditional societal structures. Im not promoting anything except abundant caution. 

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4 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Yes so you see the rub. You can call people to violence indirectly. Lots of atrocities have been promoted and achieved through this kind of crap. So it’s always a balance and I’m of the opinion the balance is no longer their because we now have technology that had outpaced our traditional societal structures. Im not promoting anything except abundant caution. 

The amount of variables that contribute to why specific great atrocities happen are so many and so complex I'd not want to try to delve into it. I personally have much more hope for the future than what the past has been. The traditional structures that were in place before didn't stop any of the constant wars or atrocities that happen world wide to this day. 

I think traditional social structures are forever gone though. We have no unity anymore not in religion, not in our cultural identity, not in our identity as citizens of the countries we belong. Or at least that is how I see it within people of my age group and younger here in the US. Its like we've seen everything as a fraud. 

Of course we have this hurrah of nationalist sentiment with Trump which I feel will dwindle with him out of office and of course once the older generation that put him in office is dead and gone. Of course I am speaking of the USA and not the world as a whole.

In general though I see technology as the great liberator. We have all this information at our finger tips like never before along with access to any person anywhere in the world. We are also only really two decades into it.

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Here is what the creators behind LBRY themselves said about lbry.tv:

Quote

LBRY Desktop is best suited for power users that are deeply interested in a pure, unadulterated experience of the LBRY protocol - without some of the centralized bells and whistles on Odysee.

https://odysee.com/@lbry:3f/talkingaboutodyseeandlbry:6

So yes, don't go to lbry.tv if you're just a casual goer, rather Odysee.com is the place to be. 
(and in this regards, I feel Curtis Judd / Tom Antos / etc made a mistake in promoting their move to lbry.tv instead of promoting Odysee.com)

Edit: lol, when I went to Odysee just now it said "Hi, we're an alternative to quibi." (last time I visited it said something along the lines of "Now with 50% less bending over park benches". Heh)

 

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49 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

And this is wrong in my opinion and it would be in the best interest of proper peer review journals to crack down and fight this kind of greed.

Huh? Do you oppose Sci-Hub too now?? (and how is Sci-Hub "greed")
Do you just oppose the sharing of knowledge in general? Anti-LBRY and Anti-SciHub, makes it surprising you're on a forum then?!

55 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

This is exactly the problem with the current situation.

No, the problem is the lack of choice, for too long we had no other choice than YouTube! (well, we kinda had Vimeo, but that is dying out, Facebook videos is the #2 now)

You seem to think more competition and choice is a "bad thing". So what if people use it in ways you don't want them to do, people use JavaScript in ways that I think are bad! Doesn't mean I flat out oppose JavaScript itself, I realize JavaScript is beneficial too. Is just a technological tool. 

You might hate Google, but the solution isn't to replace it with another different company that becomes Google 2.0! The solution instead is to decentralize and have a flourishing of competitive choices. Not be tied down to any one authority who gets to dictate what is available or not. 

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31 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

They go further and say:
 

Quote

Should LBRY Desktop or lbry.tv ever be promoted over Odysee?

If you're talking to a normie, just tell them about Odysee. They'll be able to relate to it very quickly and it appeals to mainstream sensibilities.

LBRY Desktop is best suited for power users that are deeply interested in a pure, unadulterated experience of the LBRY protocol - without some of the centralized bells and whistles on Odysee.

If you're talking to Edward Snowden, LBRY Desktop would be a great fit for him over Odysee. But if you're talking to Pewdiepie, just tell him about Odysee.

But read the whole article, I found it to be a really interesting read explaining the shift. 

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Please share screen shots! This is what I see (and from memory, this looks pretty similar-ish to the random collection of videos when I first visited LBRY.tv):image.thumb.png.87486eb4309e8bce28cfae73cf3ef510.png

The second video I see upon going to LBRY is a video intending to undermine the credibility of our election. 

You don't live in the US so maybe it's just that you haven't seen the damage that has been done by QAnon and other bad faith actors, but you literally cannot go a day without seeing / hearing people that believe this rhetoric or reading about someone being threatened with death and violence because they're "stealing" the election. 

I don't care about differing views, or being exposed to them. I do care about the spread of disinformation that leads to violence and civil strife in my country. I didn't go looking for things to make me concerned when going to LBRY, those things found me in the form of their promoted videos and the large Newsmax banner under "Popular Channels." 

Screenshot_20201202-162232_Chrome.jpg

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10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't care about differing views, or being exposed to them. 

I think it is extremely dangerous to live in an echo chamber of only knowing people who already agree with you and reinforce your existing biases. 

10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

The second video I see upon going to LBRY is a video intending to undermine the credibility of our election. 

a) you're referring here to lbry.tv, not LBRY. You should go to Odysee not lbry.tv by default
b) you're referring here to a video produced by a journalist Tim, who is a self described liberal and has backed the likes of people such as Bernie Sanders. I'd say it is a ridiculous stretch of a claim to say he's an extreme right winger. 

Now, Tim is not saying these videos are proof that the election results are wrong and Biden lost, in fact Tim multiple times says and stresses this is *not* definitive proof that Trump won. 

What do you think Tim as a journalist should have been done instead, do you say this is a taboo topic that we may not discuss whatsoever illegal electioneering behavior? I strongly disagree, if you care about defending democracy and maintaining a high level of confidence in election results, then you should embrace discussing and bringing to light cases which undermine the fair election process. As you don't want to encourage that and let it get worse for the next election cycle. You're better off working on getting this stopped now, before the next election.  People need to have confidence that elections are fair and anything illegal/irregular will get cracked down on and not simply ignored to then be brushed away under the mat. 

Anyway, bringing the focus back to discussing YouTube itself, let's look at this published paper I randomly stumbled across about "right-wing echo chambers on YouTube" because a friend shared it today. Here is what the math and a study says, to quote the abstract:

Quote

Although it is understudied relative to other social media platforms, YouTube is arguably the largest and most engaging online media consumption platform in the world. Recently, YouTube’s outsize influence has sparked concerns that its recommendation algorithm systematically directs users to radical right-wing content. Here we investigate these concerns with large scale longitudinal data of individuals’ browsing behavior spanning January 2016 through December 2019. Consistent with previous work, we find that political news content accounts for a relatively small fraction (11%) of consumption on YouTube, and is dominated by mainstream and largely centrist sources. However, we also find evidence for a small but growing “echo chamber” of far-right content consumption. Users in this community show higher engagement and greater “stickiness” than users who consume any other category of content. Moreover, YouTube accounts for an increasing fraction of these users’ overall online news consumption. Finally, while the size, intensity, and growth of this echo chamber present real concerns, we find no evidence that they are caused by YouTube recommendations. Rather, consumption of radical content on YouTube appears to reflect broader patterns of news consumption across the web. Our results emphasize the importance of measuring consumption directly rather than inferring it from recommendations.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2011.12843.pdf

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14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Users in this community show higher engagement and greater “stickiness” than users who consume any other category of content.

This jibes with my uneducated opinion of the psychology of nationalistic folks.  I personally believe they actively seek out ideological reassurance more so than others.  Derived from insecurity?  These are my anecdotal observations, anyway.  I think it's why they'll flock to rallies and enjoy them while other citizens are incredulous, if not appalled, by that behavior.

Ironic to me that those that claim to be the most stridently individualistic often seem not to be at all.

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14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think it is extremely dangerous to live in an echo chamber of only knowing people who already agree with you and reinforce your existing biases. 

Sorry, I'm not subjecting myself to QAnon, white nationalist or unfounded election conspiracies. People are dying and getting hurt because of that garbage. My ancestors were put into concentration camps by those types. 

 

14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

b) you're referring here to a video produced by a journalist Tim, who is a self described liberal and has backed the likes of people such as Bernie Sanders. I'd say it is a ridiculous stretch of a claim to say he's an extreme right winger. 

A simple scroll through his videos makes the idea that he's "liberal" really laughable.Screenshot_20201203-181249_Chrome.thumb.jpg.fabbbd0a99e72d553f701a5a90c52237.jpg

Screenshot_20201203-181312_Chrome.thumb.jpg.c2e833da1c4ecdd76dbe613590e79d99.jpg

Screenshot_20201203-181355_Chrome.thumb.jpg.a367b4cafd1e3da379501578eb8509d6.jpg

Regardless: Any platform that highlights Newsmax and the other content I see highlighted is not worth supporting. 

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Tim Pool was one of those original Wall Street Protestors and citizen journalists, he's been around for a very long time. Worked for VICE too as one of their journalists (described by even VICE as a "lefty" & "progressive"). He's backed Bernie Sanders, and voted for Obama each time. Just because he's disappointed in the direction the Democrat Party has been going lately, and is willing to call out B.S. when he sees it, doesn't make he some kind of "crazy extreme right winger". He's at heart a lefty.  The world needs more people like him, folks who can see the perspective from both sides of the political divide and work with all sorts of people rather than driving us apart. 
 

8 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:
23 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Users in this community show higher engagement and greater “stickiness” than users who consume any other category of content.

 

That "stickiness" is why they can fairly efficiently move over to another platform if they get booted off, which means in the end booting them off hasn't really accomplished anything. 

 

8 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

My ancestors were put into concentration camps by those types. 

You're Jewish too?

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Tim pool is a cynical hack who'll espouse or promote any batshit idea that he thinks will get him clicks. I used to follow him on Twitter under the heading of 'seeing what other views are' and saw his videos attempting to incite anti-immigrant feeling in Sweden, under the guise of 'news-gathering'. He's a money and attention whore and best ignored. He is in no way a credible journalist.

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As I have been dealing with a mild case of appendicitis I have checked out of this discussion. Hoping to avoid surgery. And spending 5 hours in an ER seeing exactly what this hoax virus is doing To people...my god. But it’s people exactly like Tim Pool here that give real journalists a bad name. He is a disgrace. The world needs to tune out people like him and start doing the far more important and hard thing and solve our troubles, not peddling in this click-bait sensationalist fear and hate mongering. 

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14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Tim Pool was one of those original Wall Street Protestors and citizen journalists, he's been around for a very long time. Worked for VICE too as one of their journalists (described by even VICE as a "lefty" & "progressive"). He's backed Bernie Sanders, and voted for Obama each time. Just because he's disappointed in the direction the Democrat Party has been going lately, and is willing to call out B.S. when he sees it, doesn't make he some kind of "crazy extreme right winger". He's at heart a lefty.  The world needs more people like him, folks who can see the perspective from both sides of the political divide and work with all sorts of people rather than driving us apart. 

Those aren't attacks on the Democratic Party, those are attacks on our elections and pandering to the most delusional of Trump's supporters.  You (and he) can claim all you want about how left he is, but it's a ridiculous claim. 

14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You're Jewish too?

I'm not religious, but yes my relatives on my father's side are Jews. My great grandparents and their kids left during the earlier pogroms, the rest of the family were never heard from again once the Nazis invaded Lithuania. 

Free speech is a great thing, but not all speech deserves to be amplified. I know first hand what happens when these ideas gain traction, and it's not good. 

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12 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Tim pool is a cynical hack who'll espouse or promote any batshit idea that he thinks will get him clicks. I used to follow him on Twitter under the heading of 'seeing what other views are' and saw his videos attempting to incite anti-immigrant feeling in Sweden, under the guise of 'news-gathering'. He's a money and attention whore and best ignored. He is in no way a credible journalist.

Yep. It's all a grift. Right now there's a lot of money to be made spouting that rhetoric if you have no morals. 

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Most citizen journalists aren't that great. They don't have the experience, patience, or ability to detach themselves from covering an event. Yuh, they usually need cash so they'll go for click bait material in order to remain relevant. There are amazing citizens who are better than traditional journalists, however those are few and far in-between. 

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