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Sony A7S III / rumours


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2 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Thank you very much, this is the type of info that I'm looking for when purchasing a camera for work. 

Any output delay on the HDMI to the Ninja? (My Nikon Z6 and Panasonic S1 has this bad)

I haven't measure it yet, but it "feels" like 2 ms, lol...  I plan to get the exact amount.  You can now do an automatic audio/video sync on the Ninja V side though.  just connect the 3.5 and click the button and it calculates and adjusts for the delay automatically.  Will post more on that later.

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You could literally post a frame from R5 or Arri Alexa, say it's a Sony A7siii frame and someone would say the color isnt that good and that something is wrong with the skin tones.

These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web.  Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them

Some tests and a review from Brandon Li. Chris  

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1 hour ago, Hangs4Fun said:

That is correct because the handle is right in front of the MI

But seriously, here's the thing, when the heck would you ever have your handle on (run and gun) AND be setup for 4 channels of audio?  One of those silly arguments from people not involved in the actual use case.  When I'm in interview mode, my handle is off, and I put it on when  I shoot B Roll or run and gun.  Shouldering or operating the camera from behind you are more likely going to be using handles from the sides of the cage or proper extended hands in the cases where you might be in that setup and still need 4 channels of audio.

I shouldn’t type before drinking coffee LOL! The handle itself isn’t the issue because obviously it’s in the way, it’s the shape of cable that allows you to move the K3M off the shoe, from what I’ve read it doesn’t seat properly with the small rig cage. Someone posted on the FB group that you need a hotshot extension to make it work. 

As far as the handle, it’s pretty much always on for me, just another option for carrying, more attachment points, and another point of contact. I find it very handy, unless it’s on a gimbal. The handle is also where I mount my Ninja, or a shotgun, or my G3 receiver and so on. 

Sony has been all over the map with the design of the XLR MIS modules, the first one didn’t attach to the shoe, just used a cable, the second only attached to the shoe with no cable and now the new one does both. IDK, maybe it’s just easier to file away a little bit of the cage so the K3M fits. It would be nice to be able to just pop it onto the shoe for quick interviews and such. 

My current setup is a little clunky, I use the Beachtek DXA micro and a Sennheiser MKE 600 for nat sound and a G3 wireless for lav or stick mic interviews. Just thinking about the Sony’s as a more compact/streamlined audio solution. 

My camera is on the truck so I’m just waiting for delivery!

cheers

chris

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44 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

I shouldn’t type before drinking coffee LOL! The handle itself isn’t the issue because obviously it’s in the way, it’s the shape of cable that allows you to move the K3M off the shoe, from what I’ve read it doesn’t seat properly with the small rig cage. Someone posted on the FB group that you need a hotshot extension to make it work. 

As far as the handle, it’s pretty much always on for me, just another option for carrying, more attachment points, and another point of contact. I find it very handy, unless it’s on a gimbal. The handle is also where I mount my Ninja, or a shotgun, or my G3 receiver and so on. 

Sony has been all over the map with the design of the XLR MIS modules, the first one didn’t attach to the shoe, just used a cable, the second only attached to the shoe with no cable and now the new one does both. IDK, maybe it’s just easier to file away a little bit of the cage so the K3M fits. It would be nice to be able to just pop it onto the shoe for quick interviews and such. 

My current setup is a little clunky, I use the Beachtek DXA micro and a Sennheiser MKE 600 for nat sound and a G3 wireless for lav or stick mic interviews. Just thinking about the Sony’s as a more compact/streamlined audio solution. 

My camera is on the truck so I’m just waiting for delivery!

cheers

chris

So, I have been eyeing the Kondor Blue Sony Ultimate Cage and have been in discussion with them about that very thing where the remote cable comes forward  and there is no way to change that.  Their cage goes a little low at that spot, and I am hopeful that I will be able to have the cable that comes out of the MI cable to be able to go up and over the top.  Basically, it might just require a slight filing to create a beveled edge on the part of the cage that is close to the MI.  Depends on how badly you want to achieve 4 channel audio into your main media files (reduced post work), for me that is one of my top priorities, so I will figure something out and of course share it.

I am sending them caliper level measurements to them, but right now they are busy machining out the cages and what ever adjustments they were able to do before the final CNC instructions were done already.  So what ever it is I am going to start with that and Figure it out.  

The good news is with their design has the camera on a Quick Release 501 Plate System, so you can slide the camera slightly forward or backward into the position that works for you (first attachment shows that with an arrow)  So I am hoping that I will be able to slide the camera and 501 plate back slightly allowing the leading bump of that XLR-K3M MI shoe cable reroute thing; to protrude forward but not hit the cage.  Then where the cable leave that it may be best to have a filed notch in the NATO rail to more gradually allow the cable to move up and away from the rail and not put stress on the connection inside the shoe.  A small cable size notch in the edge of the NATO rail won't keep it from functioning when you go back to run and gun setup with top handle.

The other alternative here, is that Kondor Blue is known for creating custom cables to solve these exact kind of problems.  I have already suggested it to them, but that solution will take some months.  It would involve a design where the cable comes out to either the left or right instead of straight ahead.

BUT... let me ask you this?  If you look at the second picture, the XLR-K3M itself does NOT have a leading bump and will likely just seat in the MI shoe (at least on the Kondor Blue cage).  In my opinion, if you are recording 4 channel audio you are on a tripod, so why worry about a top handle.  And if you don't have the top handle on (which on a well designed cage, takes 2 seconds to take on or off), why not just install the XLR-K3M straight into the shoe when you need 4 channel audio?  I'm planning on 95% of my 4 channel needs being tripod based and have no reason for the top handle.  I'm just going to make a lanyard that lets me hang the handle to the side when not in use and add back on when leaving the tripod.  That being said, my place of choice to hang my Ninja V from was the front of the top handle, so now I will be mounting their cine magic arm (or pro) on the top just to the side of the middle.  They have these sweet mini QR plates that will make it easy for me to go from a side loaded Monitor to back on the top handle for run and gun in a couple of seconds.  

MUCH more to come on the build out of that

In this first picture you can see the reroute cable that lets you run your XLR-K3M 12" away from the top center.  you can see the front leading bump it has and how it might hit the cage and/or NATO rail IF you have a cage that does not let you adjust the front/back position in your cage like the Kondor Blue does.

SonyA7SIII_KondorBlue_Cage.jpg

 

Here I am showing the XLR-K3M itself, and it does not have that leading bump off the MI shoe like the reroute cable does.

SonyA7SIII_KB_XLR-K3M.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

. MUCH more to come on the build out of that

In this first picture you can see the reroute cable that lets you run your XLR-K3M 12" away from the top center.  you can see the front leading bump it has and how it might hit the cage and/or NATO rail IF you have a cage that does not let you adjust the front/back position in your cage like the Kondor Blue does.

SonyA7SIII_KondorBlue_Cage.jpg

 

Here I am showing the XLR-K3M itself, and it does not have that leading bump off the MI shoe like the reroute cable does.

SonyA7SIII_KB_XLR-K3M.jpg

I just went to their website and saw the Ultimate So my A7SIII cage.  That is some sweet looking gear.

Btw, I noticed the same issue with the 4 channel audio on output. This weekend is to busy for me to experiment further though

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I'm wondering if it's viable to attach a heat sink to the Ninja V to cool it down when recording RAW. I also am planning to use my FXLion Nano V-mount battery to power the camera and the Ninja V (in my hypothetical purchase scenario).  So there would be no batteries on the back of the Ninja V, meaning hopefully there was space to jerry rig a heat sink. Maybe via a SmallRig Ninja V cage so that it makes contact but it's not permanent. I remember one of the drawbacks  I read about with the Ninja V is the loud fan noise. I would do dual system sound though so that would help.

I'm also guessing that by recording externally, potential thermal issues with the camera are transferred to the Ninja V - you win some, you lose some?

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1 hour ago, Llaasseerr said:

I'm wondering if it's viable to attach a heat sink to the Ninja V to cool it down when recording RAW. I also am planning to use my FXLion Nano V-mount battery to power the camera and the Ninja V (in my hypothetical purchase scenario).  So there would be no batteries on the back of the Ninja V, meaning hopefully there was space to jerry rig a heat sink. Maybe via a SmallRig Ninja V cage so that it makes contact but it's not permanent. I remember one of the drawbacks  I read about with the Ninja V is the loud fan noise. I would do dual system sound though so that would help.

I'm also guessing that by recording externally, potential thermal issues with the camera are transferred to the Ninja V - you win some, you lose some?

The Ninja V is fine I believe, as it has adequate heat syncs and a fairly noticeable fan.  This is not a weather sealed device obviously so they can deploy features to get get the heat out of the way.  I still plan to record internally at XAVC S-I 4K 4:2:2 10bit, but instead of having my internal cards recording simultaneously to both cards, I just going to have it do Auto switch to get the most out of the few V90 cards I have (my backup is the card and primary is the SSD on the Ninja V).

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BTW... when using the ProRes RAW on your Windows computer, say to edit in Premiere or Resolve, you will need to download this from Apple:  https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2020/windows/001-36880-20200831-dd7a918b-e5de-4145-add4-c835639d9476/ProResRAW.msi

So far, I am seeing about 6GB per 1 minute in ProRes RAW HQ.  But let me do several more tests first. In case I have a setting wrong.  At first the Ninja V was estimating 48 minutes, and this is more like 166 minutes, which really is phenominal.  But like I said hang on, don't quote me yet.  This is all very early in my testing.

image.png.ca11707d964656af20757b5964c2265a.png

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8 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

BTW... when using the ProRes RAW on your Windows computer, say to edit in Premiere or Resolve, you will need to download this from Apple:  https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2020/windows/001-36880-20200831-dd7a918b-e5de-4145-add4-c835639d9476/ProResRAW.msi

So far, I am seeing about 6GB per 1 minute in ProRes RAW HQ.  But let me do several more tests first. In case I have a setting wrong.  At first the Ninja V was estimating 48 minutes, and this is more like 166 minutes, which really is phenominal.  But like I said hang on, don't quote me yet.  This is all very early in my testing.

image.png.ca11707d964656af20757b5964c2265a.png

I m considering getting a ninja V  for the a7siii as well,

Could you share a small ProRes Raw clip of a challenging condition ? like shooting/someone or something in front of a window, I would like to see how much you can recover in the highlight, if there is a benefit compared to internal recording.

Cheers. 

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VERY TEMPORARY 4 channel RIG, fully wired up, with Timecode from the Atomos Sync.

Since I have a shoot next weekend, I needed to throw something together that was functional UNTIL Kondor Blue has those beautiful Ultimate Rigs ready to ship in a week or two.

This is fully wired up, so you are seeing 4 audio feeds coming in (1 from a boom to #1 XLR, 1 from on camera #2 XLR, and #3 and #4 are 2 sets of Rode Wireless Go.  That beautiful blue braided cable is Kondor Blue's 14" full hdmi to full hdmi braided cable.  I'm running a USB-C to USB-C cable from the FxLion NANO TWO V Mount battery to the A7SIII for PD charging (it is keeping it at 100% as I use it).  Also, running a locking cable from the Ninja V dummy battery to the FxLion NANO TWO.  Obviously the Sony XLR-K3M is powered by the A7SIII through the MI shoe.  The matte box is just a Tilta one I had laying around with a cinema soft filter (4" x 5.56") mounted on the provided 82mm ring to the Sony 16-35GM.  And in the first picture is a "poor mans" EVF, very similar to how the FX9 is doing it.  This is just a 5" Loupe from Kinotehnik that magnetically attaches to the Ninja V.  I'm VERY pleased with the fit to my eye and function of this, however, I am having difficulties with the metal strip staying attached.  Magnetics is fine, but the adhesive sucks.  I'm going to try and fabric a hinging mechanism that attaches to the top of the Ninja and then just screws into the plastic shell of the Loupe.

Without a proper cage I do not have anything where I want it exactly yet.  Like the Ninja V will be more to the side, the Wireless Go will be elsewhere, etc..  But this will do for next weekends shoot.

TEMP A7SIII Buildout with Loupe.jpg

TEMP A7SIII Buildout without Loupe.jpg

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1 minute ago, LightShooter said:

I didn't know Gitzo made video heads?  And what is that thing between it and the tripod?

This is my portable video tripod setup, for when I need to be able to move around quickly.  I originally built this for doing video work on 1-2 week solo wilderness trips.  But it has turned out to be a stable and capable video tripod for more mobile shoots where I need to reposition a lot.

  • Gitzo GT1540G
  • AcraTech 45622 leveling base
  • Gitzo GHF2W 2 way video head

The tripod itself is my old but trusty Gitzo GT1540G Carbon Fiber Mountaineering tripod (I think they are on GT1542G now?).  This thing has been everywhere and never failed me, yet I can carry it with all my wilderness and camera gear.  For it's weight it is very stabile.  The video head is fairly new, as I recent added it to get better quality pan and tilts in the field (literally, lol).  It's the Gitzo GHF2W video head, weighing only 1.3 pounds, yet still has a counter balance system and for under 9 pound setups you can dial in the tension pretty decent.  NOT an Ozen or Sachtler by any means, my main requirements for this one was more about weight, speed, but still with functional video capabilities.

That black mass between the video head and tripod is the AcraTech 45622 Leveling base.  Since this tripod isn't like my heavier duty 75mm or 100mm  bowl setup, and couldn't support the leveling arm passing through, I added this leveling base, so I could still get a quick level, but on a non bowl tripod.  It works great and is fast.

This setup is about a 1 man, small rig, where you need to grab a bunch of different locked down shots.  My shoot next weekend is just an event video for Oktoberfest, so I will be using this and my Ronin S.  Some of it will be of the live band and dancing, so that will all be done from this tripod setup using the 4 channel audio setup too.  All the mobile stuff will be on the Ronin S (Once I get the Kondor Blue setup, I plan on doing more shoulder shooting and less gimbal, as I like the look a should rig footage here and there.

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ALL Loaded up, ready to do a day hike and see if I can't get some footage.  I am going to try to get some 4K/120p using a Motorized Jib with pan/tilt, as well as some Dolly in and Dolly out shots, and Sliders.  There's a small water fall I have access to, I was going to use as the subject.

I'm also going to take the same shots but in 24P along with RAW output at the same time.  This way we can look at the difference between ProRes RAW 12bit and Internal All-I 10bit.

I can't believe it all fit in that Edelkrone backpack, here's everything that is loaded:

  • Sony A7SIII with 24GM f/1.4
  • Induro GIT304L carbon fiber w/ 75mm modular system to swap out heads/motion controllers fast
  • Edelkrone JibONE (for motorized jib shots)
  • Edelkrone Dual HeadONE setup (for motorized pan and tilt)
  • Edelkrone SliderPLUS v5 Long
  • Edelkrone Slide Module v3
  • Edelkrone FlexTilt 2
  • Edelkrone Backpack
  • Cat hair on backpack provided by my youngest daughters Himalayan Simese, lol

HEAVY as heck, but the backpack has decent waste and shoulder straps, and the weight is stable.

If all works out well, I will try to upload the footage to my vimeo site tonight and will share here.

 

Edelkrone Backpack all loaded.jpg

Edelkrone Backpack all closed up.jpg

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On 9/26/2020 at 12:40 PM, Hangs4Fun said:

So, I have been eyeing the Kondor Blue Sony Ultimate Cage and have been in discussion with them about that very thing where the remote cable comes forward  and there is no way to change that.  Their cage goes a little low at that spot, and I am hopeful that I will be able to have the cable that comes out of the MI cable to be able to go up and over the top.  Basically, it might just require a slight filing to create a beveled edge on the part of the cage that is close to the MI.  Depends on how badly you want to achieve 4 channel audio into your main media files (reduced post work), for me that is one of my top priorities, so I will figure something out and of course share it.

I am sending them caliper level measurements to them, but right now they are busy machining out the cages and what ever adjustments they were able to do before the final CNC instructions were done already.  So what ever it is I am going to start with that and Figure it out.  

The good news is with their design has the camera on a Quick Release 501 Plate System, so you can slide the camera slightly forward or backward into the position that works for you (first attachment shows that with an arrow)  So I am hoping that I will be able to slide the camera and 501 plate back slightly allowing the leading bump of that XLR-K3M MI shoe cable reroute thing; to protrude forward but not hit the cage.  Then where the cable leave that it may be best to have a filed notch in the NATO rail to more gradually allow the cable to move up and away from the rail and not put stress on the connection inside the shoe.  A small cable size notch in the edge of the NATO rail won't keep it from functioning when you go back to run and gun setup with top handle.

The other alternative here, is that Kondor Blue is known for creating custom cables to solve these exact kind of problems.  I have already suggested it to them, but that solution will take some months.  It would involve a design where the cable comes out to either the left or right instead of straight ahead.

BUT... let me ask you this?  If you look at the second picture, the XLR-K3M itself does NOT have a leading bump and will likely just seat in the MI shoe (at least on the Kondor Blue cage).  In my opinion, if you are recording 4 channel audio you are on a tripod, so why worry about a top handle.  And if you don't have the top handle on (which on a well designed cage, takes 2 seconds to take on or off), why not just install the XLR-K3M straight into the shoe when you need 4 channel audio?  I'm planning on 95% of my 4 channel needs being tripod based and have no reason for the top handle.  I'm just going to make a lanyard that lets me hang the handle to the side when not in use and add back on when leaving the tripod.  That being said, my place of choice to hang my Ninja V from was the front of the top handle, so now I will be mounting their cine magic arm (or pro) on the top just to the side of the middle.  They have these sweet mini QR plates that will make it easy for me to go from a side loaded Monitor to back on the top handle for run and gun in a couple of seconds.  

MUCH more to come on the build out of that

In this first picture you can see the reroute cable that lets you run your XLR-K3M 12" away from the top center.  you can see the front leading bump it has and how it might hit the cage and/or NATO rail IF you have a cage that does not let you adjust the front/back position in your cage like the Kondor Blue does.

SonyA7SIII_KondorBlue_Cage.jpg

 

Here I am showing the XLR-K3M itself, and it does not have that leading bump off the MI shoe like the reroute cable does.

SonyA7SIII_KB_XLR-K3M.jpg

As always an encyclopedia on info. I'll check the Kondor Blue cage out. I already have a bunch of smallrig stuff, that's why I kind of default to them. I do like having the camera on a QR, would be much easier going from a cage setup with the Ninja, audio adapter, wireless mics and so on to a gimbal. Just unplug the cables and pop the camera out of the cage. Nice find.

Chris

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15 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

FYI the Prograde V90 cards are on sale, if you use the code ALPHAGVRD20 they knock 20% off. I bought two 128gb v90 cards for $188. I haven't found a better deal. 

Chris

Is that an affiliate link you are enriching yourself with there?

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On 9/23/2020 at 3:11 PM, Hangs4Fun said:

Got my email from B&H this morning and saw FedEx pick it up before lunch, I will have my A7S Mark III Friday 🙂   (of course, Friday is already taken with kids stuff, as is a good bit of this weekend, but I should be able to do something Friday and Sat just by cutting out sleep, ha; that camera can shoot in the dark anyway right, lol)...

Also, have version 10.54 firmware locked and loaded on my Ninja V.  ready to go.  I'm most interested to see the 16bit RAW linear to 12bit ProRes RAW results compared to the best internal codec.  I'm REALLY hoping that magenta cast is gone in the RAW.  I am terrible at removing magenta without affecting skin tones, so I usually can't touch it much.  Also curious to see if the SSD's I've got will handle the sustained write speed.  From my calculations it will, but we shall see.

Can't wait to see how that reduced rolling shutter looks on my motion controllers (I have Edelkrone's JibONE, SliderONE, Dual HeadONE, and SliderPLUS v5 Long).  

let me know your thoughts! i found after making the vid that the magenta issues are more or less solved if you shoot slog2 instead

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