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Andrew Reid

1D X III vs EOS R5 and R6

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1 hour ago, Simon Young said:

Wolfcrow tested out the 1dxIII extensively on a job and praises many things, but rolling shutter performance in 5,5k raw is not one of them. It’s really bad (which makes me cautious about both the R5 and R6) But the image is as expected gorgeous.

https://wolfcrow.com/canon-1d-x-mark-iii-real-world-revie
w-for-video-and-cinematography/

It is only true for full sensor 4k30p, full sensor 4k60p (when the AF is disabled) has half as much rolling shutter, big difference

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-III---Beste-4K-EOS-ohne-Cinema-Logo--FullHD--25-100fps---Rolling-Shutter---Fazit-Signalver.html
 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

After almost two months with the 1Dx III these are the biggest negatives for me:

- No DPAF if FF 50/60 fps
- Bad rolling shutter in FF 30,25,24. Now if it would have DPAF at 50/60 you could shoot RAW 50 fps with a 360° shutter and would be the best for me as you can have slow motion and you have a <16ms rolling shutter and RAW. 1.3 Crop the rolling shutter is good <16 so you have options but no RAW.
- No live histogram, waveform or zebra (this is the most puzzling one but was always like this on Canon). An external monitor fix this but I hate to have cables and one thing more to power.
- terrible menu to select the framerate, resolution, format, crop.... you really need to pay attention what you select.
- no flippy screen
- 1080 120fps is pretty bad same as 1Dx II

But the DPAF is incredible even for sport and action videos. I can have somebody running, biking, galloping at me with a 200-400 with a nucleus nano as poor man zoom rocker at have almost perfect focus. With the various AF zones is much better than the 1Dx II that I used to own.
I love RAW as the workflow it resolve is native if I'm doing short takes I always do it in RAW. 5.5 you can crop reframe stabilize with no loss of quality and pull picture out (this I'm doing quite a bit). And the video quality is very good.
With all the modes with crop and not and all the various encoding option you have ton of choice for every possible situation from 8bit IPB to 5.5k RAW. Also the audio amp seems much better.

I don't care about IBIS as for video is either tripod or gimbal. Also the EVF is not key for me as on gimbal is useless and on tripod not that convenient. I prefer OVF for sports photography.
In Resolve you need better HW for 10bit LOG than for RAW. Also strange that IPB LOG are faster than ALL-I LOG.

Not sure I would recommend it to video shooter only mostly due to the price but if you need also a sport/action picture body it is really amazing camera.

Curious to see the R5 4k 60 if it is no crop and super sampled so <16 rolling shutter and the 4k 120fps.

My plan is to own both as I need two body.

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55 minutes ago, padam said:

It is only true for full sensor 4k30p, full sensor 4k60p (when the AF is disabled) has half as much rolling shutter, big difference

Of course but then you lose DPAF. And who shoots at 50/60p more than at 24/25p? I would really prefer it if it was the other way around.

Interestingly the M6ii and the 90d with it’s binned and soft 4k has very low rolling shutter, which is promising for the R5 if they choose that route instead of downsampling. I have high hopes for the rumored M5ii with IBIS, I don’t mind having soft 4K.

But we all have our preferences, good rolling shutter performance is next to good colors and reliability what is most important to me. Chacun son goût.

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41 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

Of course but then you lose DPAF. And who shoots at 50/60p more than at 24/25p? I would really prefer it if it was the other way around.

Interestingly the M6ii and the 90d with it’s binned and soft 4k has very low rolling shutter, which is promising for the R5 if they choose that route instead of downsampling. I have high hopes for the rumored M5ii with IBIS, I don’t mind having soft 4K.

But we all have our preferences, good rolling shutter performance is next to good colors and reliability what is most important to me. Chacun son goût.

On crop the RS is very good <16 even at 24,25,30 and the video quality is still very good much much better than M6II (I have this one too)

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I am pretty shocked by the rolling shutter behaviour reported by Slashcam.

16ms in 4K/60p

32ms in 4K/24p

What a mess Canon!

32ms is completely unacceptable. It's worse than an A6500.

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sh1 6k  is around 28ms or so? Nothing too shocking for 5.5k FF..... it seems that DPAF slows down the scanning of the sensor. C500 II FF is really good at 16ms even with DPAF

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It may be DPAF related yes.

But seems odd that DPAF works fine in crop mode at 4K/60.

Why not in full frame? Even if they have to disabled it so that it only covers the centre 80% of the chip, so less DPAF data to process, it would have been better than disabling it outright or forcing us into the slow lane.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

It may be DPAF related yes.

But seems odd that DPAF works fine in crop mode at 4K/60.

Why not in full frame? Even if they have to disabled it so that it only covers the centre 80% of the chip, so less DPAF data to process, it would have been better than disabling it outright or forcing us into the slow lane.

I even tried to put in MF to see if the RS improves.... that would have been possible imo........ I tend to guess that both image and dpaf pixels are read at the same time....  so if you skip the dpaf is faster. 

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4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

- No live histogram, waveform or zebra (this is the most puzzling one but was always like this on Canon). An external monitor fix this but I hate to have cables and one thing more to power.

The R5 will have zebra included, it was shown in a product video (probably not the other two) so in theory they could add that to the 1DX III with a firmware update as well.

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13 minutes ago, padam said:

The R5 will have zebra included, it was shown in a product video (probably not the other two) so in theory they could add that to the 1DX III with a firmware update as well.

Waveform is expensive in cpu cycles zebra is fairly easy so yes it could be added the problem is that canon rarely add features in future firmware updates although lately they are getting a bit better... see 24p even on entry level like m6 II etc.. 

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29 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I even tried to put in MF to see if the RS improves.... that would have been possible imo........ I tend to guess that both image and dpaf pixels are read at the same time....  so if you skip the dpaf is faster. 

The digital IS and careful camera work helps. Otherwise there is nothing you can do but lose AF and shoot 60p, or lose full frame and shoot 60p with AF.

It is a clear indication of what the EOS R5 8K will be like.

Massive RS. AF quirks. Huge file sizes.

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It has arrived.

Found another quirk.

Max 1/4000 shutter in video mode. No shooting wide open outdoors without NDs.

84298872_10158343375376489_8232751797266022400_o.jpg

It is rare for an electronic shutter to have such a low maximum speed.

Usually it is 1/8000 or even 1/16000.

Ideally I don't want to use NDs for the 180 degree look and prefer to add that in post with the Resolve motion blur tools.

Oh well can't have everything I suppose.

So far the gut feeling is the GFX 100 and X-T4 are better for video, but I've yet to see the images from the 1DX3. The CFexpress card is coming tomorrow.

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5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Massive RS. AF quirks. Huge file sizes.

Before we conclude how bad the 1DX III is, at the moment no other FF camera offers 5.5k 60p to start with. None.
And the R5 will not sample 5.5k at 60p, so AF will be enabled in all 8K or 4K recording modes as stated.
It is likely to be more like a Panasonic S1R or Leica SL2, e.g. not the most detailed, but very good rolling shutter in 60p (30p is still in question).
There will be a mountain of recording options to reduce the file sizes, and external 4K Prores recording will be supported as well.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

It has arrived.

Found another quirk.

Max 1/4000 shutter in video mode. No shooting wide open outdoors without NDs.

84298872_10158343375376489_8232751797266022400_o.jpg

It is rare for an electronic shutter to have such a low maximum speed.

Usually it is 1/8000 or even 1/16000.

Ideally I don't want to use NDs for the 180 degree look and prefer to add that in post with the Resolve motion blur tools.

Oh well can't have everything I suppose.

So far the gut feeling is the GFX 100 and X-T4 are better for video, but I've yet to see the images from the 1DX3. The CFexpress card is coming tomorrow.

I posted on the no ND thread but on complex scenes where camera and subject moves in busy bg adding blur is post in resolve is not good. I need to test the plug in do......
In LV for photo with electronic shutter it can do 1/8000 so strange that in video mode it has this limitation... 

Forgot to add that if shoot in LOG base ISO 400 even at 1/8000 would be impossible to use f1.2 / 1.4 without NDs. RAW at iso 100 would work but at the limit

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17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon's renaissance in video has come at a time when rather than being frozen over, hell has come to planet Earth in the form of 2020. Only a year as perverted and warped as this could bring not one, not two but three Canon hybrid cameras. Which one should you consider adding to your filmmaking life (indeed what's left of it)?

New blog post:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-1d-x-iii-eos-r5-eos-r6-which-one-will-be-best-for-cine/

The lack of IBIS on the 1DXMKIII is killing me - literally. If it had it, it would be incredible. But yeah, then the R5 would have one less major advantage to tick in the comparison box. Urgh!

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51 minutes ago, ghostwind said:

The lack of IBIS on the 1DXMKIII is killing me - literally. If it had it, it would be incredible. But yeah, then the R5 would have one less major advantage to tick in the comparison box. Urgh!

Because the FF 4K is 5.5K oversampled, the electronic IS won't degrade the image in a significant manner, if you look at the linked slashcam tests, it just crops in slightly.
It seems to work quite well from other YT tests.

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5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am pretty shocked by the rolling shutter behaviour reported by Slashcam.

16ms in 4K/60p

32ms in 4K/24p

What a mess Canon!

32ms is completely unacceptable. It's worse than an A6500.

The a6500 is like 39ms right?

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1 hour ago, ghostwind said:

The lack of IBIS on the 1DXMKIII is killing me - literally. If it had it, it would be incredible. But yeah, then the R5 would have one less major advantage to tick in the comparison box. Urgh!

Fear not. The DIS is here to save the day. Very good and only 10% crop in full frame with it turned on. The extended mode is a BIG crop, and softer, but useful as a 2x crop mode in S35 for extra focal lengths from one prime. You can pretty much do a lot with a 35mm on there.

DIS looks like IBIS it's that good.

Although haven't done anything like an in-depth test with it yet, and just locked down shots.

With IBIS you can't really pan anyway, it looks crap.

A6500 and NX1 were around 30ms. But these measurements all seem to change depending on who you ask. Slashcam have 28ms for the 1DX3 24p. I am inclined to believe that one. The old 5D2 1080p in 24p was around 24ms.

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