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Andrew Reid

Panasonic: Consumer market will lead on 4K

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I hope they won't abandon m43 for video, that would be a shame. The fact that they mention a Super35 sensor clearly indicates that they want to, at least, cover new grounds. I wonder what mount will it be? Probably PL. Sony use E-mount, PL and FZ, Canon - EF and PL. Both produce some lenses (zooms/primes) for video, Panasonic has started with m43 in AF100/101, but did not really show any intention of developing it for video in terms of lenses. 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

History repeats, over and over again.  Cameras may be able to shoot 4K resolution, but I doubt it will be much different than 1080p, just more pixels without color depth (as others have said above)

 

I remember when Sony BetaMax came out.  It was great.  Then Panasonic came out with VHS, which was horrible.  No one in their right mind, who compared the quality of BetaMax and VHS, would pick VHS.  Of course, BetaMax was more expensive.  Then the joke was on Sony.

 

Panasonic came out with VHS recorders that did 8 hours.  Never mind that the quality was un-watchable.  Everyone bought VHS to copy movies off cable, and to save money, using either 4,6, or 8 hour recording qualities.  In short, the public chose convenience over quality.  It was goodbye BetaMax and ANY profit for Sony.  

 

Any manufacturing person in this business for any length of time knows the consumer market is about ease-of-use, bright colors, long zooms, "most" [megapixesl, fill in blank...], and low cost. etc.  Look at instagram!  I digress...

 

The same problem that did in BetaMax (which favored high bit-rate quality over low-bit rate convenience) would do in any real change in what people spend money for in a video camera.  My guess is that the only thing stopping Panasonic from releasing firmware that allows GH3 RAW is that fact that they keep prices at consumer levels by buying chips, memory, batteries, etc., that assume, at best, a  (100 megabits) 12.5 megabytes write rate.   Increasing the write rate on any camera DEMANDS.

 

1. Faster more powerful cpus

2. more buffer memory

3. faster IO writing

4. larger batteries (speed drains energy) (additional expense consumer pays)

5. faster, more expensive end-user cards (additional expense consumer pays)

6. faster, more expensive computers to process (additional expense)

 

Changes in any one of those things can end up with bad reviews from customers who don't understand the trade-offs, etc.  Look at the Nikon D600.  More resolution than Canon.  Then a few specs and now the camera is camera-non-grata.

 

That is to say, even if the camera can write 38 megabytes per second to an SD card, like the EOS-M, it would get negative reviews by people complaining it doesn't work with their card.  Also, 1280x720 would be the max you'd get.  Are you going to choose crop mode and end up with a long focal length or skip lines and deal with moire?  Try to get any normal person interested in that conversation!

 

Also, keep in mind, and this cracks me up.  All these people buying those cheap Komputerbay cards.  Andrew pointed out the risk.  Does anyone listen?  I'm sure they want to buy the brand cards, but again, this is the real world of consumer electronics.  Money is tight and manufacturers forget that at their peril.

 

I've been doing a lot of RAW on the Canon 50D and EOS-M.  Let me tell you, the camera gets hot!  I can shoot 8 minutes on a $65 CF card.  But I'd BE AFRAID to shoot 8 minutes straight.  

 

It remains to be seen if people ever get used to carrying around 50 batteries with their BMPCC.  It remains to be seen, once RAW is more mainstream, if there is enough demand.  

 

The simple fact is high dynamic range video requires brute horsepower.  I see no way around it.  For the manufacturers.  For us.

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Why don't manufacturers concentrate on making better cameras rather than higher res ones. High res and quality do NOT go hand in hand.

 

1080p, no moire, 13+ stops DR, 5DIII low light capability, 10bit 422 codec, Peaking, Zebras etc.......... this will be a much more valuble production tool to the 'consumer market' than a 4K, 9stop DR, 8bit codec, No Zebra, No Peaking camera.

 

Most people who bought the GH3 for video use it for Low/No budget shoots, corporates and events. Having 13 stops DR, great low light ability, Zebras and Peaking makes your shoot sooooo much easier than having 4K in a crappy camera.

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What's the difference between SONY's FZ and E mounts?

 

Aside from 18mm flange distance (common to both mounts), E-mount and FZ mount don't have any similarity.  

 

FZ mount 

 

Front_without.jpg

 

 

E-mount 

 

Sony_NEX_5_body_IMGP1368_smial_wp.JPG

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Why don't manufacturers concentrate on making better cameras rather than higher res ones. High res and quality do NOT go hand in hand.

 

1080p, no moire, 13+ stops DR, 5DIII low light capability, 10bit 422 codec, Peaking, Zebras etc.......... this will be a much more valuble production tool to the 'consumer market' than a 4K, 9stop DR, 8bit codec, No Zebra, No Peaking camera.

 

You already have that. It's called...the 5d mark III with magic lantern.

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I love my GH3's and really only could use a couple bug fixes such as the 1 hour freerun timecode jump that happens almost daily for me.  The playback issue in camera of some files once you reach a lot of files (usually only on 128GB cards but sometimes on the smaller cards too), as well as the jump in numbering that happens randomly.  All these bugs happen on both of my cameras.  As far as image quality is concerned, its more than adequate for what I shoot which is for television mostly in the US.

 

Though to be honest, the major feature I am hoping for (otherwise will attempt to manufacture my own - see here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/139826#Comment_139826) is to have a grip that is more in a horizontal position and has a handstrap like the Canon C300 series and Sony FS series.  I shoot for 8-12 hours a day, 7 days a week and sometimes on ships (have shot for the last several seasons of Whale Wars with the GH1, GH2, and GH3) and have constant cramps in my hand even when using a shoulder rig, as you have to have access to the control dials quite frequently for run n gun shooting, and the traditional SLR form is not really that ergonomic at all - just move your right hand up to your face and see what position is naturally rests in.  Quite shocked by how few people seem to complain about this.  Anyone else here shoot for hours on end and deal with this?

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I love my GH3's and really only could use a couple bug fixes such as the 1 hour freerun timecode jump that happens almost daily for me.  The playback issue in camera of some files once you reach a lot of files (usually only on 128GB cards but sometimes on the smaller cards too), as well as the jump in numbering that happens randomly.  All these bugs happen on both of my cameras.  As far as image quality is concerned, its more than adequate for what I shoot which is for television mostly in the US.

 

Though to be honest, the major feature I am hoping for (otherwise will attempt to manufacture my own - see here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/139826#Comment_139826) is to have a grip that is more in a horizontal position and has a handstrap like the Canon C300 series and Sony FS series.  I shoot for 8-12 hours a day, 7 days a week and sometimes on ships (have shot for the last several seasons of Whale Wars with the GH1, GH2, and GH3) and have constant cramps in my hand even when using a shoulder rig, as you have to have access to the control dials quite frequently for run n gun shooting, and the traditional SLR form is not really that ergonomic at all - just move your right hand up to your face and see what position is naturally rests in.  Quite shocked by how few people seem to complain about this.  Anyone else here shoot for hours on end and deal with this?

I understand your concern about ergonomics.  I bought a rig from Edelkrone, not cheap but it works.  They have a handstrap too.  Although no electronics on it, still might be good for you:

 

http://www.edelkrone.com/hand-strap/

 

Even a shoulder rig is hard to film for hours on end.  But yeah, the basic DSLR shape isn't meant for long hours of shooting.

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You already have that. It's called...the 5d mark III with magic lantern.


Really, the 5DIII does 10bit 422 (not interested in RAW workflow)? the 5D is moire free? No 1080p50 on the 5DIII and I'm not interested in the oversized sensor.

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Apple is the most aggressive consumer camera manufacturer ( yes, that's what they are now ), after 120fps they still have room to grow with adding megapixels, global shutter and higher dynamic range, ( maybe even RAW since they control the quicktime codec) .

 

They will most certainly go there sooner or later. Lack of interchangeable lenses on the iPhone is the only thing keeping DSLRs from cannibalization by Apple.

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I have been given some exciting information about the future of the GH-line. But I can't say anything about it yet. Stay tuned to 43rumors in 2-3 weeks time.

Needless to say the consumer division of Panasonic are turning their attention to 4K in a big way.

Read the full article here

 

 

So its definately been more than 2- 3 weeks..... spill!!!

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I was wondering about that too, i've been cheking the forums the last couple of weeks only for that rumor :) so EOSHD-guys, what about it, any news?

 

Yes maybe time to spill the beans on this one...

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