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Kisaha

Is the Samyang VDSLR kit of primes still relevant in 2019.

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I don't know about whether they are relevant to the market as a whole, but to me they are since they remain unique for their features and price. There are no other brands with anywhere near the number of focal lengths, all with similar size, clickless manual aperture, decently long focus throw, and standard gear positions. And they are all very fast, and in EF mount. The only problem is they make fairly ugly images, in my subjective opinion.

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32 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I don't know about whether they are relevant to the market as a whole, but to me they are since they remain unique for their features and price. There are no other brands with anywhere near the number of focal lengths, all with similar size, clickless manual aperture, decently long focus throw, and standard gear positions. And they are all very fast, and in EF mount. The only problem is they make fairly ugly images, in my subjective opinion.

Ugly images?! Really?! I am not really fond of them either, but I wouldn't call them names!

It seems like the 4 lens kit costs even less (obviously), and the 16mm T2.6 is a lot better than the 14mm!

It could be a good starting kit, even for P4K setups

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recently @BTM_Pix compared the 24mm and 85mm Samyangs to other well-regarded lenses and they punched well above their weight.  I'm assuming that the F1.4 stills versions are the same lens as the T1.5 cine versions.

Lenses are very subjective, so you really need to look and assess for yourself.  One mans trash... etc.

Oh, and that kit is showing as being on special now.. £1,915.83 for me, unless I'm special :)

https://cvp.com/product/samyang_7413-vdslr-lens-kit-5-canon

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They're still as relevant imo, nothing comes close in value for money in the budget cine market. 

*The 24mm is the worst lens imo, due to the quality control! If you have a good one it's great but a bad one is literally unusable until t4-t5.6...

The 85mm is the golden child of their lineup tho for sure! *

 

Veydra were good but they seem to have dissolved? Although Meike's new lenses seem similar? 

 

Canon EF mount is always a bonus as well.

20 minutes ago, kye said:

Oh, and that kit is showing as being on special now.. £1,915.83 for me, unless I'm special :)

https://cvp.com/product/samyang_7413-vdslr-lens-kit-5-canon

I believe that's before tax price? Still a great deal for 6 lenses and case! 

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7 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

They're still as relevant imo, nothing comes close in value for money in the budget cine market. 

Veydra were good but they seem to have dissolved? Although Meike's new lenses seem similar? 

 

Canon EF mount is always a bonus as well.

I believe that's before tax price? Still a great deal for 6 lenses and case! 

Ah, maybe because I'm an International visitor.  I thought the UK wasn't keen on those any more? 😂😂😂

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5 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Canon EF mount is always a bonus as well. 

how true is that?

I see/hear a lot of people talking/writing about the end of the mount, but EF is pretty much relevant as always, and maybe even more.

EVA is EF, P4K has a lot of EF(-S) mounted on it, the new Z S35 camera is rumored to have an EF mount, even the cameras that supposedly will end the EF, the R ones, make more sense right now with EF lenses (except the people that just spend 3500€ for a 2f zoom!) for many reasons (the ND adapter included).

Can't see the EF vanish anytime soon..

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42 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

They're still as relevant imo, nothing comes close in value for money in the budget cine market. 

*The 24mm is the worst lens imo, due to the quality control! If you have a good one it's great but a bad one is literally unusable until t4-t5.6...

The 85mm is the golden child of their lineup tho for sure! *

 

Veydra were good but they seem to have dissolved? Although Meike's new lenses seem similar? 

 

Canon EF mount is always a bonus as well.

I believe that's before tax price? Still a great deal for 6 lenses and case! 

I was about to say the 24mm is not very good, but maybe I just had a bad sample.

I found the 35mm and 85mm to be good. Very neutral. 

Never tried the others, or I think the 14mm I tried once and it had bad distortion but I hear it's sharp.

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Ugly images?! Really?! I am not really fond of them either, but I wouldn't call them names!

They don't have feelings... so...

Just kidding. Ugly maybe is too strong. But I have shot quite a bit on a full set of Rokinons, and quite a bit on a set of Nikon K lenses, and I prefer the Nikons' look, and that of most other lenses I've used I find the Rokinons to consistently make unpleasing flares and to have some annoying warm color casts. After seeing in Duclos' teardown that Rokinon applied a yellow tinge to one of their elements, I was like "oh yeah, that explains SO MUCH about the color." I prefer cooler colors I guess.

I do actually like the 14 and 10mm Rokinons, simply because they were very affordable and fast for wide angle primes. When I use them, it's because I need an ultra wide and there is no other option, so in that sense they are very useful.

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

how true is that?

I see/hear a lot of people talking/writing about the end of the mount, but EF is pretty much relevant as always, and maybe even more.

EVA is EF, P4K has a lot of EF(-S) mounted on it, the new Z S35 camera is rumored to have an EF mount, even the cameras that supposedly will end the EF, the R ones, make more sense right now with EF lenses (except the people that just spend 3500€ for a 2f zoom!) for many reasons (the ND adapter included).

Can't see the EF vanish anytime soon..

Yeah, the folks over at red.com seem to treat EF as a standard and have their vintage lenses modified to have EF mounts, including people who are buying sets to rent out, like the Contax Zeiss, etc.

It is good when a marketplace settles on a standard because (if the standard is open) it benefits everyone.

The only exceptions are lenses that have a similar flange distance to EF and therefore have to be modded but can't simply be adapted.  Mounts like Konica, m42, Pentax-K and others are probably too similar to be able to fit an adapter, and the Konica is shorter than EF, so definitely no adapters!  This is where having an adapter from that system to your mirrorless system comes in, so the EF mount works for everyone on lenses, but not on cameras.

16 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Just kidding. Ugly maybe is too strong. But I have shot quite a bit on a full set of Rokinons, and quite a bit on a set of Nikon K lenses, and I prefer the Nikons' look, and that of most other lenses I've used I find the Rokinons to consistently make unpleasing flares and to have some annoying warm color casts. After seeing in Duclos' teardown that Rokinon applied a yellow tinge to one of their elements, I was like "oh yeah, that explains SO MUCH about the color." I prefer cooler colors I guess.

Can you white-balance to compensate for it, or is it a more complex colour shift?

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They are good lenses , I had the 16mm t2.2 and the 135mm t2.2 

For the prince nothing come close, when you buy vintage there are very often some issues , plus the cost of adapting/declicking. 

Here it s plug and play.

The big bonus for me is the weight, for cinema primes the year are quite compact and light .

The issue for me is the same as any entry price cinema gear, it s accessible to a wider untrained audience, who produce tons of garbage with them. So you get a biased judgment based on that and brand loyalty. 

Look at the Celere, some DOP were  praising them for their look , until duclos pointed out that they are rehoused Samyang....

 

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13 minutes ago, Laurier said:

They are good lenses , I had the 16mm t2.2 and the 135mm t2.2 

For the prince nothing come close, when you buy vintage there are very often some issues , plus the cost of adapting/declicking. 

Here it s plug and play.

The big bonus for me is the weight, for cinema primes the year are quite compact and light .

The issue for me is the same as any entry price cinema gear, it s accessible to a wider untrained audience, who produce tons of garbage with them. So you get a biased judgment based on that and brand loyalty. 

Look at the Celere, some DOP were  praising them for their look , until duclos pointed out that they are rehoused Samyang....

 

How some of those young "DP"s felt after they discovered that?

Read some of the reviews of people obviously know nothing about their trade, making unjustified claims and using poetic words for lenses that can be bought for a fraction of the price.

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10 hours ago, kye said:

I'm assuming that the F1.4 stills versions are the same lens as the T1.5 cine versions.

Optically they're identical

2 hours ago, Laurier said:

Look at the Celere, some DOP were  praising them for their look , until duclos pointed out that they are rehoused Samyang....


Oh gee! I never knew that

 

https://cml.news/g/cml-glass/message/225

 

And their response:
https://cml.news/g/cml-glass/message/261

 

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The takeaway from that thread really from the response is that proof that they were Samyangs or not would have to be forthcoming in the way of a complex process of teardowns, bills of sale, paper trails of supplier meetings and on and on.

It is pretty informative that that proof hasn't come in the way of someone saying "of course they are Samyangs, look at how shit the images are from them".

So from that backhanded compliment @Kisaha maybe you will have your answer ;)

I'd pick them up used if you can though as they tend to be part exchanged into dealers at low prices due to them not being a particularly loved brand.

Definitely get them in EF mount as it is the best intermediary mount anyway and as I'm presuming you predominantly want these for a Pocket 4K then with cheap EF spedboosters (as no smart AF aspect needed for manual!) you get the extra speed obviously but also that bit of sharpening if you are concerned about them being soft wide open.

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10 hours ago, kye said:

Can you white-balance to compensate for it, or is it a more complex colour shift?

I'm not sure. I tend not to be scientific about lenses. If I consistently like the images I capture, I like the lens. And I've not consistently liked Rokinons the way I like my vintage Nikons, or the Zeiss ZF.2's and handful of Sigma Art lenses I've used.

I've often considered grabbing Rokinons when I see them used for a good price, but their extraordinarily convenient features just aren't worth the image to me yet.

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I’ve recently been paying a little more attention to these lenses and from what I’ve seen, they seem to be great bargains.

Depending on your usage, I don’t know if the Cine versions are worth the extra cost over the stills version, especially since stuck aperture blades are a common complaint online.

From reading your other posts, it seems you’re planning on using these with the P4K, so I assume you are doing some narrative work with them?

For the cost of the kit, I wonder if the Fujinon zoom would be another option? Of course, I don’t know when the M4/3 version will be available.

For the money of the Cine kit, you could easily put together a Nikkor kit and have them modified. Or you could get a Sigma 18-35mm modded.

Hmm... tough call.

 

But honestly, based on the title of your post, you’d probably be better off going with native lenses or the Sigma 18-35mm.

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2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Optically they're identical


Oh gee! I never knew that

 

https://cml.news/g/cml-glass/message/225

 

And their response:
https://cml.news/g/cml-glass/message/261

 

My understanding is that the gecko  genesis G35 are also rehoused samyang with the front element re-coated to be warmer and look like canon k35 .

Developing a full line of optics require large resources, it s very unlikely that a small boutique company is able to do such thing. 

 

For the celere, I found a interview of the owner where he was praising is company because Angenieux congratulated them on developing a full line of optics, and was considering a collaboration where angenieux would do the coating for them so they match the look of their zoom. Considering that they did probably just rehouse samyang/sigma designs , that quite ....scandalous 

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32 minutes ago, mercer said:

Or you could get a Sigma 18-35mm modded.

But honestly, based on the title of your post, you’d probably be better off going with native lenses or the Sigma 18-35mm.

I am one of those that do not value much the 18-35!

I seriously consider my NX 16-50S 2-2.8f a lot more versatile and equally performing, and I am not abandoning NX yet!

Super fast AF, pretty good stabilization, the important (for me) 2 extra mm at the wide end, and a lot of useful extra 15mm at the tele end - enough for wide portraits and small groups (75mm equiv) and it is 2-2.2f until 32-33mm, so not missing much on the aperture side.

As a run n gun solution I am getting the Olympus 12-100mm. I have used it extensively for broadcasted TV shows so I am pretty confident about it.

The 2 Fuji lenses are 8-9000€ here and no EF. The E version could be interesting too.

The Samyangs are full frame lenses also, something to consider.

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@Kisaha another consideration are the Zeiss Classics... they used the same glass in the ZF and ZE versions as they do in the CP.2. With a Cine mod from Duclos or Simmod, you’ll have perfectly usable cinema lenses with that Zeiss look. You can easily get a couple primes, in your favorite focal lengths for around the same money as the Samyangs.

Another option, which may make the most sense, since you’re going with the Olympus 12-100, is to go with native Olympus primes. The 17mm 1.8 is a glorious little lens and that manual focus clutch is like using a proper focus ring.

Now if you’re looking at the Samyang lenses because of their Cine Lens characteristics... declicked aperture and lens gears... then why not buy the 85mm used and see how you get along with it and then build a set of individual primes as you need them.

I think the problem with the Samyang lenses is quality control... so if you buy the kit and the 24mm is wonky, do you have to return the whole kit?

As far as IQ goes, I found this video from the Samyang 24mm shot on an FS7. I think it’s a beautiful image. I already posted it in the lens section, so sorry for the repost if you’ve already seen it. 

So basically, I think you have lots of options and I think that these lenses are as relevant as any lens. I mean, a lot of DPs are using Nikkor lenses from the 60s, so if a 50 year old lens can still be relevant, I cannot believe that a 7 year old lens wouldn’t be. 

@AlexTrinder96 nice work... which Xeens did you use and how do you like them? Also what camera were those shot with?

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