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Liam

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Hey, like I said. I am doing fashion stuff. Here are a gazillion people out there doing the same BUT, are they the best bag designers in town? Have the best skilled production? What's your expertise? How does it mirror in the real world?

If we make a prototype and I would put it on my table (or insta yt respectively) no one notices, no one cares. You got to be that bag guy, In your fricking village. If someone thinks about picking up a camera or writing or what ever, he knows he needs to call you because you are the dude in town. "Yeah sure I can help!"

If you have no skill no knowledge why would anyone want to see or talk to you?

Not joking here. Show us your reel, boom!!! Maybe you would have 5 more fans, off you go....Not sure who it was, maybe @Oliver Daniel posted some work two weeks ago, it just shows he is fucking serious about what he is doing. 

If i show my product to industry people they see it is made with skill passion and knowledge. Don't waste people's time....I know a couple ad's and account managers in advertising here. If a young guy come up to me and says "hey do you know anyone who could..". I can put you in front of the right people but it is your stuff knowledge skill agreeableness  that wins them over. And don't tell them that you are not into advertising. Because why would you care for an audience if it is not for the money for to make more movies or to buy a yacht. (Unless u r lunatic)

Intern with the kings here on the forum. Visit @mercer help him with his shoot?..... Good luck.

p.s. It is not about mailing lists it is about people respecting you for what you do and having a good time doing it....oh gosh sorry.

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45 minutes ago, Liam said:

I would think if you can't find an audience on vimeo, you're totally normal, because vimeo is full. It doesn't have to mean anything about the quality of your content. I'm trying to say I want a route where I'm not competing at all. that's a real thing, but I think anyone who's done that has had to do it on their own... not use what they were told works by a mildly successful blogger etc

Mildly successful blogger, you should be so lucky.  You Have to compete. You think someone is going to give you something in this day and age just because you are a nice guy. Hell 1/3 of young people still live at home. If it was easy they would all be living in a great home with a picket fence, a new car in the driveway. You are competing with the whole world now, not Bob down the street. I think you are wanting something that is long gone. There aren't 600 book authors now, there are Millions of them, so average skill is below average now. You have to be Casey Neisat hungry now to make it. He is not alone trust me. Yeah Vimeo is full, full of a lot of people that can make shit happen.  You have to get hungry, mad as hell, try anything, not hope the tooth fairy shows up. Hell you had to be that way when I was young to really make it in a reasonably big way. But it is a Hell of a lot harder today. I see some really ugly things that are going to happen down the road. This globalization stuff has leveled the playing field. There is no place for people to hope stuff happens, you have to Make it happen, and keep that pace up for the rest of your life. I don't envy anyone that is young in this day and age that doesn't have an inborn drive to succeed. A big time drive.

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Haha, 

51 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Mildly successful blogger, you should be so lucky.  You Have to compete. You think someone is going to give you something in this day and age just because you are a nice guy. Hell 1/3 of young people still live at home. If it was easy they would all be living in a great home with a picket fence, a new car in the driveway. You are competing with the whole world now, not Bob down the street. I think you are wanting something that is long gone. There aren't 600 book authors now, there are Millions of them, so average skill is below average now. You have to be Casey Neisat hungry now to make it. He is not alone trust me. Yeah Vimeo is full, full of a lot of people that can make shit happen.  You have to get hungry, mad as hell, try anything, not hope the tooth fairy shows up. Hell you had to be that way when I was young to really make it in a reasonably big way. But it is a Hell of a lot harder today. I see some really ugly things that are going to happen down the road. This globalization stuff has leveled the playing field. There is no place for people to hope stuff happens, you have to Make it happen, and keep that pace up for the rest of your life. I don't envy anyone that is young in this day and age that doesn't have an inborn drive to succeed. A big time drive.

You should be a motivational speaker. It’s both negative and inspiring at the same time. 

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36 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Mildly successful blogger, you should be so lucky.  You Have to compete. You think someone is going to give you something in this day and age just because you are a nice guy. Hell 1/3 of young people still live at home. If it was easy they would all be living in a great home with a picket fence, a new car in the driveway. You are competing with the whole world now, not Bob down the street. I think you are wanting something that is long gone. There aren't 600 book authors now, there are Millions of them, so average skill is below average now. You have to be Casey Neisat hungry now to make it. He is not alone trust me. Yeah Vimeo is full, full of a lot of people that can make shit happen.  You have to get hungry, mad as hell, try anything, not hope the tooth fairy shows up. Hell you had to be that way when I was young to really make it in a reasonably big way. But it is a Hell of a lot harder today. I see some really ugly things that are going to happen down the road. This globalization stuff has leveled the playing field. There is no place for people to hope stuff happens, you have to Make it happen, and keep that pace up for the rest of your life. I don't envy anyone that is young in this day and age that doesn't have an inborn drive to succeed. A big time drive.

I was saying... Vimeo is where everyone goes. Make your own path, and in a way you won't have competition. I know there are millions and millions of artists.

1 hour ago, hansel said:

Hey, like I said. I am doing fashion stuff. Here are a gazillion people out there doing the same BUT, are they the best bag designers in town? Have the best skilled production? What's your expertise? How does it mirror in the real world?

If we make a prototype and I would put it on my table (or insta yt respectively) no one notices, no one cares. You got to be that bag guy, In your fricking village. If someone thinks about picking up a camera or writing or what ever, he knows he needs to call you because you are the dude in town. "Yeah sure I can help!"

If you have no skill no knowledge why would anyone want to see or talk to you?

Not joking here. Show us your reel, boom!!! Maybe you would have 5 more fans, off you go....Not sure who it was, maybe @Oliver Daniel posted some work two weeks ago, it just shows he is fucking serious about what he is doing. 

If i show my product to industry people they see it is made with skill passion and knowledge. Don't waste people's time....I know a couple ad's and account managers in advertising here. If a young guy come up to me and says "hey do you know anyone who could..". I can put you in front of the right people but it is your stuff knowledge skill agreeableness  that wins them over. And don't tell them that you are not into advertising. Because why would you care for an audience if it is not for the money for to make more movies or to buy a yacht. (Unless u r lunatic)

Intern with the kings here on the forum. Visit @mercer help him with his shoot?..... Good luck.

p.s. It is not about mailing lists it is about people respecting you for what you do and having a good time doing it....oh gosh sorry.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking for peers, before "fans"

For that, you don't need to be the best. I feel like you're saying both.. idk if "have peers" is advice. I'm tryin 😄

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31 minutes ago, mercer said:

Haha, 

You should be a motivational speaker. It’s both negative and inspiring at the same time. 

I don't know.So many young people iI know just seem to be depressed as hell. Wasn't that way when I was young. And it is because Nothing is easy today unless you are just lucky as heck. I know you can make yourself lucky but man, it is pretty unpredictable now, and that is what is bad. I heard something I think is crazy is that by 2030 40% of the people in the USA will be self employed! Hell that vast majority of people are not made to lead, most normally are followers. And that is the way it Should be. You can't have too many chiefs and not enough Indians as they say. If that is true God help 50 % of them. They will be worse off than before. Bankrupt and depressed even more. Running a business is nerve racking, you are never relaxed, have time for nothing, family or friends way to live. It is a FULL time job 7 days a week. Yeah that ought to all work out well LoL. I hope like heck that is not true. It will be Really ugly.

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20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't know.So many young people iI know just seem to be depressed as hell. Wasn't that way when I was young. And it is because Nothing is easy today unless you are just lucky as heck. I know you can make yourself lucky but man, it is pretty unpredictable now, and that is what is bad. I heard something I think is crazy is that by 2030 40% of the people in the USA will be self employed! Hell that vast majority of people are not made to lead, most normally are followers. And that is the way it Should be. You can't have too many chiefs and not enough Indians as they say. If that is true God help 50 % of them. They will be worse off than before. Bankrupt and depressed even more. Running a business is nerve racking, you are never relaxed, have time for nothing, family or friends way to live. It is a FULL time job 7 days a week. Yeah that ought to all work out well LoL. I hope like heck that is not true. It will be Really ugly.

In 50,000 years, hopefully sooner, (if we're still around) there won't be jobs at all, or money, or famous people. That was all a bad idea in the first place. So yeah, we're really solving stuff.

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4 minutes ago, Liam said:

In 50,000 years, hopefully sooner, (if we're still around) there won't be jobs at all, or money, or famous people. That was all a bad idea in the first place. So yeah, we're really solving stuff.

Well in reality we are going backwards. Maybe not a bad idea in reality. Bu it is a total re adjustment to what most young people were raised and taught to do. So in the transition time things are going to get ugly. It is going back to Medieval times of just the rich, a few, and the poor, a Lot of them LoL. Not really progress, just an experiment that went very wrong!

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3 hours ago, Liam said:

not sure about knowing your target audience... do most authors know that they're writing for men age 21-49? Or do they take whoever shows up?

MOST authors wallow in obscurity. MOST authors work 9-5 jobs, and then eat a cold sandwich for dinner, then go out and work a 6-10 job, and then maybe find a few hours on the weekend to write some stuff. Maybe someday some of it will get published in a way that they might make a few dollars. Most likely it will end up in some literature magazine or some literary competition where the author HAS TO PAY to have the work published. Is that a business model you want to follow???

Financially successful authors know ahead of time who they are writing for if they hope to get published. They may not have analyzed it in terms of demographics at a granular level, but they will have at least a good idea that they are writing for "kids who like magic" or "moms who like yoga and feel guilty about having a c section instead of vaginal birth" or some good idea of who their work is for. You can create work about stuff that YOU love but if you want other people to notice it, then you have to make sure it gets in front of their eyeballs.

3 hours ago, Liam said:

I'm trying to say I want a route where I'm not competing at all.

What does that mean??? Do you mean you want to create something and have it become popular with no effort on your part to promote it at all???

3 hours ago, Liam said:

that's a real thing, but I think anyone who's done that has had to do it on their own... not use what they were told works by a mildly successful blogger etc 

You can always just do what you like to do and hope you get lucky and maybe someone who is an influencer will start promoting your work because they think it is the dog's bollocks.

Maybe it will happen. But it should be unique AND in demand content. I don't even think quality has to be paramount. Look at starbucks; they sell fake artisan coffee to people who think that they have good taste in coffee.

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29 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

does that mean??? Do you mean you want to create something and have it become popular with no effort on your part to promote it at all

A mailing list is slightly unusual today. On youtube there's best, second best.. something good can be 50th and not worth your time. The one thing they get in the mail won't be compared to or compete with anything, and I'm sick of explaining... As for "trying" hmm.. never thought of that! Worth a shot! These are all buzzwords, but I'm glad some people think it sounds inspiring. Offer anything concrete, please.

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8 hours ago, mercer said:

One woman I follow started posting her story, really her journey about getting her film made and she created enough followers and interest that she just ran a successful crowdfunding campaign that’s going to pay for the next phase of her production.

 

After Kye mentioned Gary Vaynerchuck, I looked him up, and Gary Vaynerchuck was kinda saying exactly that. 

If you're starting up a new business then you should YouTube vlog its progress. As most businesses fail, but documenting the process around that? There is a lot of value in that which many others will appreciate. 

Seems like that Instagram person you're following is kinda doing the same. She documented her process of making a film, and many people found that in itself to be very valuable, and she benefited from that in return in it helping to further get her film made. 

 

6 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Seriously??? Your not willing to shell out $100 a year on marketing / advertising???

I am not saying that email marketing is the BEST thing for you. But you need to familiarize yourself with the various marketing / advertising / outreach options and try and figure out which one is going to most effectively reach your target audience.

And you had BETTER have a good idea of your target audience. Otherwise, if you don't have some understanding of your target audience, then you are just digging yourself a whole.

Oh, and mail chimp has a free plan as well with up to 2,000 subscribers. That might not seem like many, but it will take you a LONG TIME to reach 2,000 subscribers to an email list.

And once you've got 2K subs, then you'd hope that is work $100/yr to you!

 

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1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Financially successful authors know ahead of time who they are writing for if they hope to get published. They may not have analyzed it in terms of demographics at a granular level, but they will have at least a good idea that they are writing for "kids who like magic" or "moms who like yoga and feel guilty about having a c section instead of vaginal birth" or some good idea of who their work is for. You can create work about stuff that YOU love but if you want other people to notice it, then you have to make sure it gets in front of their eyeballs.

Bingo.

And the same could be said about film producers as about books. 

Producers know their audiences, they know what it takes with a production to get a certain type of movie made, they know what is hot or not in the market at the moment, etc... and they're looking for writers/directors/stories which match this interlocked mesh of needs/wants they have. 

Been somewhat trying to make this point with a few of my friends lately. 

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@Liam

It seems that you are starting to somewhat answer your own questions in a few of your responses here, which is always a good thing.

Never give up, but become very comfortable with adapting while trying to maintain your “ideal” standards. Don’t get any goals or standards mixed up with the idea of not being adaptable yourself. True adaptability fortunately does not always mean full compromise, even though it often can present itself that way, especially in the constant self-promotion social media world.

I often discover incredibly interesting work online and I’m amazed how some very talented people have a very low profile, as their work should be more widely known. Of course, I see the opposite as well, but then again sometimes it is not really about the work in relation to popular social media information, as their personable or charismatic persona and the ability to share random things at times, is more of a draw or focus. Even if you are not interested, some more business and marketing type of approaches should be explored, to at least see how things work and emerge when using different platforms if you decide to use those in the future. It may not be the fun part for you, but it is important.

What do you really want? In your area of focus, who do you respect and why? Do you have access to a group/club, of like-minded people (writers, filmmakers, editors, illustrators, animators, etc.) in your town or region? Perhaps get involved in some different things that can help you grow, create with others, pull together knowledge and resources or approaches from many places. Maybe you could meet someone you could collaborate with, that likes to be in front of a camera, while you on the other hand could contribute mainly to the content shown to try out some different things you have in mind. It could be an occasional or just a one-off thing. As you have referenced one person previously (Adrian Tomine), maybe you can also consider some elements from the approaches of others even outside of your area of focus as well. Don't romanticize things or any "one" approach or method to much, or that could influence you to maybe not be open enough in the future to any changes that may really be needed to adapt.

I’m not going to tell a lie here, so yes it can at times take some luck to achieve further progress when stuck, but all the hard work (often unrewarded) that has been done initially, has to be explored continually to prepare for any such future possibilities, whether they may involve luck or not. Prepare for no luck, but be very appreciative when you experience it. Since most everyone has a little luck at some point, if somewhat prepared, one can then get more out of it.

Any achievements attained large or small, can be really life changing and the positive consequences imparted may last many years or sometimes just only for a short while. It is not easy at times, as things change and evolve all the time. I still like to think hard work, research, and creativity will always help one adapt and evolve. It is a lot to navigate, but try to keep your standards and stay hungry, and even sometimes warrior like. When great success happens, use that to move further forward, but keep the idea in the back of the mind of not getting to comfortable as things can change over time.

Follow the guideposts along the way, which you may uniquely notice, since you may already immerse yourself in that area of interest, follow a similar standard or perspective established by those before you that have gained some respect in your area of focus. Again, adaptability does not have to be a compromise, so use your creativity, learn and grow further to even higher standards perhaps not thought of.

You cannot win if you do not play, so it is important to finish things also. Start and finish many projects, even if you don't like the final product, just start something else and keep doing it till finished, as it will decidedly evolve and maybe a clearer direction would emerge for you to pursue with promoting your work. Whether your work develops into a more niche area or becomes broader in scope, it could then help to more clearly determine better, the “what, where and how” to then focus on and possibly gain some more traction. Not sure if it is ever an issue for you, but don't forget to not take yourself to seriously at times either, and don't forget to give yourself some credit when warranted or if a goal (big or small) is achieved. All progress counts.

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8 hours ago, Liam said:

These all sound nice... I hope it's not crazy to ask if they actually mean anything.

Excellent question..  

"VALUE" is a concept that people often find vague and confusing, but it is absolutely critical to what you are trying to do.  It's also difficult to describe, but I'll try :)

Value is something that people are willing to pay for.  Maybe that payment is in money, maybe it's in their time, maybe it's in their attention.

The whole idea of this stuff is that you create something that other people are willing to pay for.  If I see that Casey Neistat has posted a video I make a judgement about if it's worth my time to watch it.  ie, my time is valuable, but is what I get from watching the video more valuable to me?  If so, I will click play and watch it.  If I get bored or whatever during the video I will stop watching, but if it keeps being of value to me then I will keep watching.  If it's really valuable, I might subscribe, hoping to trade more of my time for more valuable content.  If I think it's valuable to other people I will share it.

With the release of the BMPCC4K lots of people have shared videos about test footage and first impressions and the like.  These people who post those videos do so because the content of the video is valuable (or at least, they think it's valuable).  If I watch a video and it's a waste of time I'm not going to share it, unless I think it will be amusing to waste other people's time, which means that I get some amusement, which is valuable to me.
One person who got the BMPCC4K posted an 8 hour live stream of them not unboxing it.  It got shared because it's 
kind of funny, considering that everyone else unboxed it with excitement, so seeing someone not care if different and interesting, and gave me a laugh, and I like laughing, so that's valuable to me.

Does that make sense?

Business used to be pretty simple - people would sell you something for money.  Sometimes it was a physical product (carton of milk), sometimes it was their effort (hiring a plumber), sometimes it was their time (getting legal advice, or taking a course).

Now things are more complicated and involve lots of people, but ultimately each party involved (the creator, YT, advertisers, etc) each trade something they have for something they don't have that is more valuable to them.

7 hours ago, Liam said:

I would think if you can't find an audience on vimeo, you're totally normal, because vimeo is full. It doesn't have to mean anything about the quality of your content. I'm trying to say I want a route where I'm not competing at all. that's a real thing, but I think anyone who's done that has had to do it on their own... not use what they were told works by a mildly successful blogger etc

Vimeo isn't full.  If you start a channel that gives tomorrows winning lottery numbers each day then just watch what happens....

This is where we need to talk about quality.  People will follow the best quality providers they can.  If Masey Nice-hat starts a YT channel and is better than Casey Neistat then I will prefer watching Macey's videos, and if I only have time to watch one channel, would unsubscribe from Casey.  If you make the best content on a service, people will watch, like, share and subscribe, just like the closing comment on every YT video.  Peter McKinnon hit 1M subs 9 months after starting his channel, and this is why - he made better videos than most people.

The other element is sales..

SALES is telling people about your product.

I used to think that sales was a bad thing.  The old "pushing people to buy things they don't need and can't afford to impress people they don't like" thing.  Now, I think of sales a bit differently.  People have time, money, or skills and they also have needs or wants.   They want to exchange what they have for things they want or need.  Sales is about matching peoples needs or wants to products or services that will genuinely help them.  It's about solving problems.

If you make a good video or write something good, then going out and telling people about it who would be interested in it isn't pushing at all, it's about helping.  People who are bored want entertainment.  People who want to know more about the BMPCC4K want information on it.  People who want to know how to tie a bow-tie want a (short!) tutorial, preferably with a video or pictures.

This is what I mean when I say make something valuable and go out and tell people about it.

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If you Really, Really believe in the product you are selling whether it is physical, a vacuum cleaner, or yourself, a damn good tailor, it is easy as heck to talk people into it. You believe and they believe, bingo they are hooked. They are happy and you are happy.

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The simple fact is this... nobody cares about you or your work unless you throw it down their throats. As someone upthread has already said, it doesn’t even need to be good, just present it like it is. Unless it’s really, really bad... then one just needs to keep honing their craft until someone gets it. 

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

After Kye mentioned Gary Vaynerchuck, I looked him up, and Gary Vaynerchuck was kinda saying exactly that. 

If you're starting up a new business then you should YouTube vlog its progress. As most businesses fail, but documenting the process around that? There is a lot of value in that which many others will appreciate. 

Seems like that Instagram person you're following is kinda doing the same. She documented her process of making a film, and many people found that in itself to be very valuable, and she benefited from that in return in it helping to further get her film made. 

 

And once you've got 2K subs, then you'd hope that is work $100/yr to you!

 

Exactly. If you go all the way back to the beginning of her IG account you can see where her filmmaking story begins. Over the years she posted her ups and downs and showed a very human side to her journey and now she is well into making her first feature film, which she posted about writing the screenplay 5 years ago when she graduated from film school. I don’t think this was premeditated but it proves the power of the medium.

Here’s her IG page if anyone is interested...

http://instagram.com/alaskathefilm

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1 hour ago, kaylee said:

you can have all the email lists and social media in the world, it doesnt really matter

try making something thats fucking dynamite. focus on that. then everything else will be easy

 

Think I recall in the full clip, RR keeps going on about how you should practice by making a film every week... but QT is just will not stand for it

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7 hours ago, kaylee said:

yeah u should of course make stuff lol, u need to keep making stuff until you make something thats great~!

Quentin made Res Dogs with millions of dollars and a killer cast of top actors. He can't do jack shit without all that

I actually saw a really good clip of his first first feature (My Best Friend's Birthday?), which he called practice and threw away.. not sure the budget on that one. But we've definitely got an apple and an orange in the mix

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