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Z Cam E2 will have ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FPS in 4K??

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26 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Whenever I am at a touristy place where people carry cameras is like 90% cheap Canon cameras. 

I was at the Alhambra Palace just after Christmas and had to do a double take at one of the tourist parties being guided around as amongst all the iphones, GoPros and small DSLRs was a kid of about 16-17 wielding what I presume was his Christmas present.

One of these...

Krasnogorsk-Krasnogorsk-3.jpg.b7a03a67012b7f6c15d98fc94c5ad10a.jpg

I see quite a lot of kids his age with old film SLR cameras but never seen one brandishing a 16mm movie camera before.

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13 hours ago, TEDD said:

@tweak ¬†Oddly enough the camera was manually set to daylight for every shot in that video. ¬†Almost like the other camera in the video ūüėČ

 

All good man, but if I was using a camera and the difference was that noticeable I would manually white-balance it (or at least try so I could show that function to people), regardless of the camera I'm using. 

I get your point about the camera not being easy to use (or perhaps even fully enabled) at the time of release, but I also think this camera isn't for you or the type of people who expect that. IMO those people should buy something like an EOSm50, anyone can use that camera and get respectable results.
Z-Cam are really open and transparent with how they are implementing new features and improving existing features. For the people that like the cutting edge and insight into the development of a product this camera is unmatched in the market right now. 

Thanks for the effort, I just feel you (or possibly B&H) have missed the mark a little here in regards to what this camera is actually for and your review does a pretty poor job of highlighting almost any of the features that the majority of people would be interested in this product for.

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I was at the Alhambra Palace just after Christmas and had to do a double take at one of the tourist parties being guided around as amongst all the iphones, GoPros and small DSLRs was a kid of about 16-17 wielding what I presume was his Christmas present.

One of these...

Krasnogorsk-Krasnogorsk-3.jpg.b7a03a67012b7f6c15d98fc94c5ad10a.jpg

I see quite a lot of kids his age with old film SLR cameras but never seen one brandishing a 16mm movie camera before.

My buddy is 18 and does top level work with this camera. I think kids are pretty interested in Analog again.

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14 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The Everyday Dad commented that he had the Z cam set to 5600k btw. 

Yes. Which clearly didn't look right. I'm sure the camera is capable of having the white-balance set properly.

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4 minutes ago, tweak said:

Yes. Which clearly didn't look right. I'm sure the camera is capable of having the white-balance set properly.

Yeah but it looked pretty odd considering it looked like a normal sunny day where 5600k usually looks, well normal. 

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18 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah but it looked pretty odd considering it looked like a normal sunny day where 5600k usually looks, well normal. 

I haven't seen anyone else with the issue in any of the tests I've viewed (many), so I'm going to attribute it to user error.
I have no idea what was done, but it would be blatantly obvious to me at the time of shooting that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed (especially if I'm doing a review, partially because you want to give people a decent review and partially because you want people to take you seriously).

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2 hours ago, tweak said:

I haven't seen anyone else with the issue in any of the tests I've viewed (many), so I'm going to attribute it to user error.
I have no idea what was done, but it would be blatantly obvious to me at the time of shooting that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed (especially if I'm doing a review, partially because you want to give people a decent review and partially because you want people to take you seriously).

If we were talking about any other camera I would agree.

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12 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If we were talking about any other camera I would agree.

What's supposed to infer from there? To blame the arse or the trousers? Are you telling us it is more prone to be device's issue than an operator's error?

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1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

What's supposed to infer from there? To blame the arse or the trousers? Are you telling us it is more prone to be device's issue than an operator's error?

uh yeah, he mentions in the comments that the camera was changing color temperature after being set manually. The camera has a lot of issues I wouldn't really be surprised it there was some issue with WB honestly as there have been issues with other basic functions on the camera. 

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On 12/27/2018 at 8:36 AM, DBounce said:

So many SJW running around, armed with a bag of insults. You don't even know me, yet, apparently, in your little world I'm a crook who stole your money? REALLY?

I'm the furthest thing from a SJW

And in that post he was saying in the hypothetical example that you gave, then that would be ''criminal'' to do. 

 

On 12/27/2018 at 8:36 AM, DBounce said:

As for trust in Z-Cam? I know little about them. I'm not saying they are bad... or good. I just don't know them

Maybe because you actively try to not learn anything more about them? Other than coming into this thread to post negative things about them. 

 

On 12/27/2018 at 8:36 AM, DBounce said:

but frankly I think most would agree, it's more likely that they go belly up, than it is that they produce something that becomes the new cinema standard.ÔĽŅ That's just the nature of business.

"Most would agree...."  that BMD is more likely to go bust than replace ARRI as the next cinema standard.  As you said, "that's just the nature of the business". ARRI is a bloody tough bastard to knock off the top (but it will I presume happen one day")

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On 12/27/2018 at 11:27 AM, DBounce said:

Indeed... lol. But honestly, I really don't have a dog in this fight with the GS version... the fact that they upped the price while shrinking the sensor size... to what? 1 inch?... Pretty much killed it for me.


It is EXTREMELY RARE to even have a global sensor cinema 4K camera, in fact what notable ones exist....  only the Sony F55 (VERY expensive!) and the flawed BMPC4K

So if someone brings out a low low priced Global Shutter 4K cinema camera then I'm perfectly ok if it is a compromise or there, such as a S16 sensor (merely the same as my BMPCC has). 

Although honestly I wish the rabid global shutter internet deskjockey fanboys had never managed to convince Z Cam in the first instance that a global shutter camera is a worthwhile project, as I'd have rather Z Cam had directed their limited R&D elsewhere. 

 

On 12/28/2018 at 6:42 AM, Kisaha said:

When you buy the Z, you can not use it out of the box, when you buy the Pocket, quite literally you can (if you count the SD card that includes, you do not even need any additional media ūüėú). That is the truth.

Arguably you can use the Z Cam straight out of the box (not counting media or lens, which most cameras don't come with), assuming you have a smartphone (as nearly everyone does). 

 

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:20 AM, AlexTrinder96 said:

Looks like they will also be releasing a 'lite' version of the E2. under $1000...

 

4k 30p

10 bit (same codecs as e2)

USB C and SD Card...

11.6 stops DR 

M43 SENSOR (GH4 sensor?)

49033050_10218086682865547_4346217203712917504_n.thumb.jpg.ca58c0898683cbe519be5356d1ac413f.jpg


Interesting speculation if it is the GH4 sensor, got any reasoning behind that?? They have after all already used the GH4 sensor in their Z Cam E1 cameras. And I guess if they put in a beefier processor into the camera that would enable it to handle 10bit 4K internal l

 

 

On 12/30/2018 at 10:46 AM, Kisaha said:

The one is wider, the other is taller. Which one is which? 

The smaller one is the E2C, the bigger one is the E2

 

On 12/31/2018 at 3:59 AM, DBounce said:

To me it's a bit strange,  this is their fourth  camera with this form factor. So then I guess this means the price cuts will be coming on the E2? If they where flying off the shelves they would not be offering this model. 


The E2 is still Z Cam's "top camera".

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Z CAM E2_User Manual_FW0.82_draft.pdf

E2 Manual

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:


Interesting speculation if it is the GH4 sensor, got any reasoning behind that?? They have after all already used the GH4 sensor in their Z Cam E1 cameras. And I guess if they put in a beefier processor into the camera that would enable it to handle 10bit 4K internal

Yeah, in all honestly I just presumed it would be the gh4 sensor as they've used it before, and the specs kinda match up!

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On 12/31/2018 at 4:49 AM, webrunner5 said:

It might be better to buy a Panasonic GH4 and a Ninja V than the E2C. You have a full blown proven camera with a great recorder.

Not such a great idea when you consider the total cost of a GH4 + Ninja V

 

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On 1/1/2019 at 10:13 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Curious to see how many people's long stated desire for global shutter translates into actual sales for them.


I expect fewer sales for their GS camera than they're expecting. 

Because there are not "many" people who want a Global Shutter camera above all else as their holy grail, there are only very few, but these few are very vocal online and fool people into thinking it is more important than it really is. 

 

On 1/1/2019 at 12:43 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Or the BM 4K Production Camera and some lights.

 

 

Well you'd still be needing plenty of lights if a person got the Digital Bolex instead. 

 

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14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


I expect fewer sales for their GS camera than they're expecting. 

Because there are not "many" people who want a Global Shutter camera above all else as their holy grail, there are only very few, but these few are very vocal online and fool people into thinking it is more important than it really is. 

This is my view as well.

The RED Motion Mount effectively simulated global shutter (as well as variable ND) and I'm again not sure the perceived clamour for global shutter translated into massive sales for them either.

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Although honestly I wish the rabid global shutter internet deskjockey fanboys had never managed to convince Z Cam in the first instance that a global shutter camera is a worthwhile project, as I'd have rather Z Cam had directed their limited R&D elsewhere.

Totally agree. I'd rather see the E2 as a polished product before they announce a GS version. But hey, maybe the industrial market will snatch them up?

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Because there are not "many" people who want a Global Shutter camera above all else as their holy grail, there are only very few, but these few are very vocal online and fool people into thinking it is more important than it really is.

True.

But... last weekend I went back to some of my REALLY old projects. (The .wmv files no longer play audio in VLC, so I wanted to re-export in a modern codec. Success, btw) They were shot on an old photo camera. 640 x 480, 15 fps. But it was a CCD with intraframe mjpeg in 422! The motion was day and night compared to modern cameras. Really makes me want a GS camera.

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On 1/22/2019 at 12:48 PM, TEDD said:

The CAF does in fact work now which is awesome.  And now I can see the camera in the app before it refuses connection.  I actually don't mind the camera I just wish it was shipped for full retail price with a 1.0 version of the firmware and not treating potential buyers as product testers without any warning.  Maybe that's ok for kickstarter gear where you expect some bugs and maybe a missing feature or two, but not something sold through a reputable retailer.

The CAF worked in 0.83, the 0.82 beta, and 0.81. I believe the "live view" CAF did not work until the 0.82 beta, which is also when they added the Human Track mode. I've posted this elsewhere - we're currently at about GH5 v2.0 firmware quality on the AF. There is still a long way to go, but there are some real scenarios in which it is usable. The Olympus 12-100 f4 especially is solid, partially because DoF of f4 is pretty forgiving.

Other bugs I have seen - the beta had a weird issue with AEL. It would seem to get locked frequently when I didn't press the AEL button. Sometimes settings wouldn't take effect immediately, and a restart was required.

I have the Portkeys monitor with LANC control that is now able to Start/Stop, adjust Focus, set Focus point, Zoom, set ISO, Shutter Speed, and Apeture as of 0.84 firmware.

I don't disagree with calling this a "beta" product. I also don't think this company would be able to get to 1.0 nearly as fast if they were trying to do it without community feedback. It's a brave tactic that has (a) gotten some money in their pockets to pay for more development, and (b) started to garner them a following that I don't think any other camera company has.

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