Jump to content

Best cinema camera for me?


rokkimort

Recommended Posts

Hey guys, have the Sony F3 for years now, and love the image. But it's time to upgrade to 4k!

 

So here's my list of specs:

Super35 sensor (1.6x crop or less). No 2x GH5 and speedbooster nonsense.

Ability to use PL glass and EF glass.

Good internal codec, ProRes 422 or similar. No external recorder nonsense.

Internal NDs.

Ability to mount on a Ronin or other gimbal – so the cam has to be on the small/light side when rigged.

Good color science.

No crop on higher framerates.

4k (but not more, 6k footage would be a total overkill).

Good low light (no Ursa Mini with FPN on ISO800).

 

I don't need XLRs, Timecode, Genlock, etc etc.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold up there - EVA1 crops when shooting 200/240fps, and PL is only possible if you void your warranty and spend $500.

...So it doesn't officially meet your list of requirements.

No one camera is going to meet the whole list, but I'd say look into:

  • FS7(II) - heavy, but easily adaptable to EF and PL, and doesn't crop on 180fps. Mark II has the vari-ND which is incredible.
  • C200 - raw and great DPAF. Touchscreen 4 inch viewfinder is great. There's no 10 bit h.264 codec option.
  • EVA - the lightest and downsamples from 5.7K. (Personally, I think the slow motion is very mushy and has a lot of aliasing)
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Super35 sensor (1.6x crop or less). No 2x GH5 and speedbooster nonsense.

Have a serious look into the new GH5S (not the GH5! Different camera). 
And how are focal reducers "nonsense"?

 

11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Good internal codec, ProRes 422 or similar. No external recorder nonsense.

Darn it! Was going to suggest the FS700 with 4K raw. As they're selling for sub $2K on ebay. 

 

11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

No crop on higher framerates.

 

But what if you had no crop for 120fps? Then there is 240fps with a crop? I'd assume that would still be ok?

 

11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Thanks! It doesn't have a PL mount, right? I lost interest to it when they announced it's EF only.


You can swap it with PL, back and forth between the two. 

11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Ability to mount on a Ronin or other gimbal – so the cam has to be on the small/light side when rigged.


How big may we go with the gimbal? 

 

https://www.came-tv.com/collections/came-prodigy/products/came-prodigy-3-axis-gimbal-camera-32bit-boards-with-encoders

 

11 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Good low light (no Ursa Mini with FPN on ISO800).


The URSA Mini Pro and URSA Mini 4.6K are a *lot* better than the URSA Mini 4K / BMPC4K / original URSA 4K.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is tricky to give advice without knowing your budget range, but here are some suggestions I'd give:

Varicam LT: arguably "the best" camera right now (short of an Arri 65 or Sony F65 etc... those truly ridiculous priced ones!). Yes, even better than say the usual Arri Alexa. Plus, you can pick up an EVA1 or GH5S as a great B cam for the Varicam!

Sony F5 / F55: the F5 is going very cheap these days secondhand, is packed with more features perhaps than any other camera at this price point.  (and you're F3 could stick around as a lovely B cam for its "free" price! ha)

Sony FS7: basically is a "baby F5", very similar in picture quality, & capable of 4K 60fps 10bit as well. But lacking many of the extra bonuses you might see on the F5, such as TC or genlock, but you said you don't care about those anyway. 

URSA Mini Pro: best bang for buck of all of these that I'm mentioning! (unless you get an absolute bargain for an F5, which I've seen occasionally them go for FS7 secondhand prices) The URSA Mini Pro is a lovely evolution forward from the URSA Mini 4.6K (which is itself a *lot* better than its brother the URSA Mini 4K, so don't get those two mixed up when reading reviews!)

Kinefinity Terra 4K: gives the URSA Mini Pro a hard run for "value for money", coming close behind. Has an eND option with the Kinemount with EF lenses. (also can do PL lenses, but I don't know of an eND for PL, however I imagine with PL lenses you'd be more ok with using a mattebox as well) 

EVA1: the most compact 4K 10bit on the market! Super lightweight for a camera with those specs plus S35 + NDs + TC + SDI + etc... and you've got the option between EF or PL with a third party accessories. 

Ones I would *NOT* consider  (but you might, but probably won't... as you're stuck with EF *or* PL, not both! But all the cameras I mentioned above, at a minimum, can switch between EF and PL):

Canon C200: lacks a middle codec, you only have the extremes of 8bit or raw!!
C300 mk2: overpriced (although, its price has massively come down since launch. So not so crazy to pick it now)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

GH5s is 1.86x crop rather than 2x I think?      Still bigger than 1.6x but is it that really much of a difference?

I don't think focal reducers are nonsense but they don't change a sensor, only the lens.          If you get a (say) 20mm 1.4 lens after speedboosting, it isn't going to be different to using a 20mm 1.4 native lens if you can find one.      So if someone doesn't like a small sensor size, a focal reducer doesn't actually change things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Good low light (no Ursa Mini with FPN on ISO800)

Life is a bitch. You ain't virgin anymore so no matter what, people will never forget the way they met you(r noviciate) for first time ; ) If you expose to the right, you'll struggle to see the infamous noise your nightmares warn you about :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

eva 1

and

all sorrows

are gone:)

 

23 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Hey guys, have the Sony F3 for years now, and love the image. But it's time to upgrade to 4k!

 

So here's my list of specs:

Super35 sensor (1.6x crop or less). No 2x GH5 and speedbooster nonsense.

Ability to use PL glass and EF glass.

Good internal codec, ProRes 422 or similar. No external recorder nonsense.

Internal NDs.

Ability to mount on a Ronin or other gimbal – so the cam has to be on the small/light side when rigged.

Good color science.

No crop on higher framerates.

4k (but not more, 6k footage would be a total overkill).

Good low light (no Ursa Mini with FPN on ISO800).

 

I don't need XLRs, Timecode, Genlock, etc etc.

C300 Mkii

I shoot with the F3 and the C300ii a lot. You don't need a external recorder. You can strip the camera way down for run and gun. You can also use the new C200 screen that allows for touch screen auto focus. It will fly on the Ronin MX. 

The URSA Mini will disappoint you in lowlight. The EVA1 and Sony cameras won't have as nice of color as your F3.

What about the F5 used? That camera is a beast for features and the color is more comparable to your F3 than the FS5 or FS7. Seems like the only one that checks all the boxes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Which one...? All of them as answer is not valid. 2nd question: And at what ISOs? ;-)

 

If you're coming from the F3, any of them will disappoint you. You can shoot clean at 1600 ISO on the F3. The noise is filmy too. 

I'm not sure what type of lowlight performance you are looking for/expecting. The C300ii will be better than the F3, which is already very good. The URSA will be worse.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

Lol.  I've thought of that myself.

4 hours ago, maxotics said:

Sorry to interrupt this fine threat, but did you guys notice @TheRenaissanceMan's signature

"Tungtsen fo' life"

HA HA HA! (and agree, at least in the winter)

Haha, good catch Max! Living in SE Wisconsin, the winter aspect of it comes into play more often than not. ;)

It's still the most consistent, reliable, good-looking light source out there, especially for the money they sell for nowadays.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

It's still the most consistent, reliable, good-looking light source out there, especially for the money they sell for nowadays

Yep, LEDs get hotter and hotter and they still have color spikes, etc.  I have Fiilex lights and I notice in some clips that the color temperature shifts here and there.  That never happens with Tungsten.  And of course, again, tungsten, though reddish, delivers a nice smooth color spectrum.  Of course you know all that.  But for any newbie reading, if you see some cheap tungstens jump on them!  I see some lowell kits going for near nothing.  Except for the heat and their hunger for watts, the quality of the light cannot be beat!  Young filmmakers have no idea how lucky they are to have all these quality lights available for pennies on the dollar.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...