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Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 10bit vs 8bit

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5 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

What do we want?

12bit 4:4:4

Where do we want it?

Internal

When do we want it?

Now. 

We've had it for 3 years on the 5dMkIII Magic Lantern, if you don't mind not having 4K.

What would be helpful is a 2 shot comparison of a scene with some areas of flat colour like blue sky in 8bit VLog versus 10bit VLog, with the clips available for download. That should show the benefit of 10bit.

Remember the chroma artifacts in 8bit VLog on the GH4? That wasn't evident on 10bit that went out to an external recorder, IIRC.

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You'll notice high bit rate before you'll notice high color depth (10 bit). Maybe you'll notice the difference on LOG footage but definitely not with a REC709 gamma profile designed for 0-255 luma range...

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On 2/11/2017 at 1:51 PM, Eric Calabros said:

What do we want?

12bit 4:4:4

Where do we want it?

Internal

When do we want it?

Now. 

You can spend $50,000.00 USD on an Arri Amira package and not get 4K 12bit 4:4:4. And you want this in a consumer priced camera for $2,000? If your company needs it so badly, you could always rent the Panasonic VariCam 35 ($55,000). Would you care to share some footage explaining exactly how 4K 10bit 4:2:2 is holding you back creatively as a filmmaker?

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3 hours ago, jonpais said:

 Would you care to share some footage explaining exactly how 4K 10bit 4:2:2 is holding you back creatively as a filmmaker?

Well when your delivery format calls for the very large color space of rec. 2020 when combined with pq or hlg EOTF's, this could certainly limit the look and style of a piece by image manipulation, especially when compounded by compression during aquisition and a camera with inadequate dynamic range.  Will this hold you back?  Nope. People contently listen to highly compressed streaming music and mp3's on cheap speakers and even cheaper headphones generally without realizing what they are missing. Ignorance is bliss! 

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2 hours ago, sam said:

Well when your delivery format calls for the very large color space of rec. 2020 when combined with pq or hlg EOTF's, this could certainly limit the look and style of a piece by image manipulation, especially when compounded by compression during aquisition and a camera with inadequate dynamic range.  Will this hold you back?  Nope. People contently listen to highly compressed streaming music and mp3's on cheap speakers and even cheaper headphones generally without realizing what they are missing. Ignorance is bliss! 

The point isn't that the industry doesn't use or need 12bit 4:4:4: it's that complaining that a $2,000 camera doesn't have it that strikes me as out of touch with reality. 

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IMHO, the trouble on this camera is far beyond to be... 10-bit 4:2:2 LOL but latitude, DR. A few samples clearly show it.

Once again, on the shooter...

Nothing more, period.

(even the high ISOs coupled to denoising attempts by the camera maker to mimic larger sensor size competition can be disappointing but it is meaningless...)

 

C'mon, that's ridiculous!

Anyways, only talent will be the last frontier. Never these devices of nowadays, at this level. End of story :-)

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The GH5 is the first time I am willing to trade dynamic-range for ergonomics.

I am absolutely sick of rigging up cameras, if not with external monitors, than with shoulder-rigs and whatnot.

For my personal shooting style, the 5-Axis on-sensor IBIS, high-res EVF and LCD, and 10-bit internal, make up for the lack of dynamic-range and usable 12,800ISO (which I wouldn't even use, anyway).

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On 2/23/2017 at 10:07 PM, jonpais said:

The point isn't that the industry doesn't use or need 12bit 4:4:4: it's that complaining that a $2,000 camera doesn't have it that strikes me as out of touch with reality. 

We didn't complain. We Want! and no its not being out of touch with anything. Today electronics are able to deliver it at $2k price range, but its a capability %98 of the target market will probably never use, so to Japanese camera makers its just a clear wasting R&D money. 

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Bumping this thread.  I've run a few tests though don't have them with me as I'm traveling, but I could see a significant difference with some heavy grading.  Straight out of camera, even on 10-bit monitor, I couldn't see any difference.  When I'm back home and have some spare time, I'll try to post some of my findings and tests.  In the meantime, anyone do any of these side by side tests?

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