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Ed_David

The mainstream media needs to be destroyed, and we need to do it.

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On 11/12/2016 at 0:42 PM, mercer said:

I was waiting for you to use the popular vote argument... I figured you would. But yes, Clinton did get the most votes, she just lost the popular vote in enough states where it mattered.

Between that and your earlier assertion that Obama had a successful eight years, leads me to believe you just regurgitate DNC talking points.

 

Please go back and read the post I was responding to.  The majority of "The American People" did not vote for Trump.  It is totally unfair to blame us for all the bigotry, sexism, xenophobia, and ugliness he spewed.  I voted for Obama, twice.  I take responsibility for the good things he did and the wrong decisions he made.  Trump voters should take responsibility for their choice.  I don't want people around the world getting upset at "The American People".  Most of us are in the same camp as them.  And that is not an "argument".  That is a FACT.  You need to learn the difference between opinion and objective FACTS.

As far as Democratic talking points are concerned, I wish the fact the Democratic agenda Hillary Clinton pushed got the most votes was a Democratic talking point.  It would be nice.  If you want to see the Democratic talking points google "DNC".  It is laughable.  Everyone is running around with their hair on fire asking "what went wrong".  There is tons of talk about putting a black Muslim in charge of the DNC.  A 75 year old socialist is saying with a straight face that he is not ruling out running for president.  Let me get this straight you win an election by potentially millions of votes and your reaction is OH MY GOD throw the baby out with the bath water and change our whole message.  Only in America would a party that has won the largest block of voters in 6 of the last 7 elections over a multidecade period say they need to change everything.  There is not a single Christian, western, first world democracy that I know of where the candidate who won an election by millions of votes would be declared to have had the wrong message.  And not just slightly wrong, burn down the whole party and start over wrong.  It is absurd.

Also this next part is to the forum not you.  I never said Obama had a successful eight years.  I have no idea why mercer made that up.  Obama hasn't even been in office eight years and presidential legacies cannot be fully judged for years after they leave office.  I supported Bill Clinton.  I like just about everyone else in both parties supported his repeal of Glass Steagall.  Well how many years did it take for us to see the full effects of that little decision?  I now strongly disagree with that action.  Even Newt Gingrich has admitted it was probably a mistake.  I don't know the long term effect of Obama's actions on Cuba nor Iran.  So anyone saying that I declared Obama's entire presidency a "success" is lying... the way Trump makes up simplistic lies that a minority of Americas believe.

I don't have the time nor energy to go through the rest of that post and debunk everything else that was said.  The one thing I will say again is let's at least get some objective facts and agree on them.  Donald Trump is legally president of the United States.  The majority of voters did not vote for him nor his ideas.  Hillary Clinton got the largest block of voters in this election and actually won by a bigger margin than Nixon, JFK, Gore and of course George W Bush among others.  These are FACTS.

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2 hours ago, Axel said:

Globally the USA do a lot that other nations profit by. That's absolutely right. The crackbrained idea is that this isn't mutual. The same populist, right-wing idiots rise in my country too. They lament about all the billions we pay for Greece (true is: the wrong people pay and the wrong people get paid, as always and everywhere). They want to close the borders against the immigrants. They even want back the Mark.

Must history repeat itself? The installation of the EU once cost round about 80 million lives. Truce between small, very different nations with different languages was maintained through negotiations, shared markets and joined ventures. International contracts that overrode national ones. No doubt that justice doesn't rule the way it should. People have every right to complain. They should be loud.

But the USA (and recently GB with the Brexit) threw out the baby with the bath water. Everyone will lose. Let's hope just money.

 

 

 

Interesting take here....

 

Or....

 

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31 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

 The majority of "The American People" did not vote for Trump.  

That may indeed be true. However, it is also largely irrelevant. Given the electoral system the American People vote under (and presumably understand and accept?) the simple fact is that the American people voted Trump into office. 

Just as the majority of people in the U.K. did not vote for Brexit - 51% of those who turned out did  however. And it is futile for me as a Remainer not to recognise that.

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38 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

Please go back and read the post I was responding to.  The majority of "The American People" did not vote for Trump.  It is totally unfair to blame us for all the bigotry, sexism, xenophobia, and ugliness he spewed.  I voted for Obama, twice.  I take responsibility for the good things he did and the wrong decisions he made.  Trump voters should take responsibility for their choice.  I don't want people around the world getting upset at "The American People".  Most of us are in the same camp as them.  And that is not an "argument".  That is a FACT.  You need to learn the difference between opinion and objective FACTS.

As far as Democratic talking points are concerned, I wish the fact the Democratic agenda Hillary Clinton pushed got the most votes was a Democratic talking point.  It would be nice.  If you want to see the Democratic talking points google "DNC".  It is laughable.  Everyone is running around with their hair on fire asking "what went wrong".  There is tons of talk about putting a black Muslim in charge of the DNC.  A 75 year old socialist is saying with a straight face that he is not ruling out running for president.  Let me get this straight you win an election by potentially millions of votes and your reaction is OH MY GOD throw the baby out with the bath water and change our whole message.  Only in America would a party that has won the largest block of voters in 6 of the last 7 elections over a multidecade period say they need to change everything.  There is not a single Christian, western, first world democracy that I know of where the candidate who won an election by millions of votes would be declared to have had the wrong message.  And not just slightly wrong, burn down the whole party and start over wrong.  It is absurd.

Also this next part is to the forum not you.  I never said Obama had a successful eight years.  I have no idea why mercer made that up.  Obama hasn't even been in office eight years and presidential legacies cannot be fully judged for years after they leave office.  I supported Bill Clinton.  I like just about everyone else in both parties supported his repeal of Glass Steagall.  Well how many years did it take for us to see the full effects of that little decision?  I now strongly disagree with that action.  Even Newt Gingrich has admitted it was probably a mistake.  I don't know the long term effect of Obama's actions on Cuba nor Iran.  So anyone saying that I declared Obama's entire presidency a "success" is lying... the way Trump makes up simplistic lies that a minority of Americas believe.

I don't have the time nor energy to go through the rest of that post and debunk everything else that was said.  The one thing I will say again is let's at least get some objective facts and agree on them.  Donald Trump is legally president of the United States.  The majority of voters did not vote for him nor his ideas.  Hillary Clinton got the largest block of voters in this election and actually won by a bigger margin than Nixon, JFK, Gore and of course George W Bush among others.  These are FACTS.

I apologize, I misquoted you, you said he was a popular two term president, which is correct. I believe his popularity is hovering around 50-60% depending upon the poll... if we can even believe polls any longer. And if people are too afraid to respond honestly to them, then we really cannot.

As of now Clinton won the popular vote by 650,000 votes, give or take, but lost the popular vote in enough states where it mattered. The Electoral College. You seem like an intelligent enough person to understand why the Electoral College exists and since we are a Republic, it is the only fair way to ensure that voters from less populated areas are represented. But yes, Clinton won the popular vote, but if you look at the election map, the country, as a Republic, voted for Trump.

 

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33 minutes ago, Snowfun said:
1 hour ago, Damphousse said:

 Hillary Clinton got the largest block of voters in this election and actually won by a bigger margin than Nixon, JFK, Gore and of course George W Bush among others.  These are FACTS.

Just as the majority of people in the U.K. did not vote for Brexit - 51% of those who turned out did  however. And it is futile for me as a Remainer not to recognise that.

May want to check your math there.  The remain crowd did not have the largest block of voters.

Hillary Clinton had the largest block of voters.  Remainers had an unpopular position.  Hillary had the most popular position.  These two things are different.  If you are going to make a factual video about the elections it probably behooves you to consider what the most popular positions were whether you agree with them or not.

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27 minutes ago, mercer said:

if we can even believe polls any longer. And if people are too afraid to respond honestly to them, then we really cannot.

I respectfully submit that the polls were fine and more accurate than ever.  It's was the media that misinterpreted them.  If I was arguing about media bias, I'd submit this as Exhibit A.

All I know is that RCP and 538 were reliable as usual.  Other outlets like huffingtonpost (rolls eyes)... if you had half a brain you couldn't do anything but laugh at those guys and the way they broke down their interpretation of the data.  

Seriously, you should go read how they did it.  They actually posted a story about it.  It's amazing the thought process that they admit they used.

BTW, that sort of mainstream outlet for "news," HuffingtonPost, relies on the greenest, youngest, and naive collection of scrubs to deliver their content.  The hyperbole is hyperactive because there's hardly any adults left steering the ship.  I'd say their aggregation is one step above visiting a Facebook political group's page, and that's being generous.

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1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

I respectfully submit that the polls were fine and more accurate than ever.  It's was the media that misinterpreted them.  If I was arguing about media bias, I'd submit this as Exhibit A.

All I know is that RCP and 538 were reliable as usual.  Other outlets like huffingtonpost (rolls eyes)... if you had half a brain you couldn't do anything but laugh at those guys and the way they broke down their interpretation of the data.  

Seriously, you should go read how they did it.  They actually posted a story about it.  It's amazing the thought process that they admit they used.

BTW, that sort of mainstream outlet for "news," HuffingtonPost, relies on the greenest, youngest, and naive collection of scrubs to deliver their content.  The hyperbole is hyperactive because there's hardly any adults left steering the ship.  I'd say their aggregation is one step above visiting a Facebook political group's page, and that's being generous.

I was talking more about the exit polls that supposedly showed Clinton was going to easily win. Even Clinton's internals must have pointed to an easy victory, if we're to believe the reason she didn't address her supporters or concede that night was due to not having prepared a concession speech.

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25 minutes ago, mercer said:

If we're to believe the reason she didn't address her supporters or concede that night was due to not having prepared a concession speech.

Well, I can't say I found Clinton to be any more trustworthy about what she said than Trump.  More sophisticated in her rhetoric sure, but trustworthy?  Eh.

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All I heard is "patriotism", when you hear a lot of patriots, prepare for a war, because too much "patriotism" leads to border change and nationalism (the bad way).

USA wasn't even a nation a few hundred years back and its only "natives"(which again, they came through the Berring Sea, so not truly natives in a sense) massacres and confined to a few miles of land and a few casinos, and some roles as extras to some western films.

The Great British are an amalgam of Germanic and Northern European peoples that actually (oh, yes!) INVADED the British Isles, killed most of the Celtic populations, Picts and the such and then went on to conquer 1/3-1/4 of the entire world.

History is a constant moving of human populations, I was expecting people from the US, that are ALL immigrants, should be more intelligent than that.

It is funny that the two latest empires (British and US) in the history of humanity, that rule the world the last 3-4 centurys suddenly feel that they are loosing control of their actions and they abandon Europe (both of them), and will try to baricade against the rest of the world. 

Also, for someone said something false like "give billions for Greece" I would just like to inform them that Greece pays back with interest rates worst than any other nation in the world, and the Greek debt is something like 0,00000000000000001% of some other great nations of this world.

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

You seem like an intelligent enough person to understand why the Electoral College exists and since we are a Republic, it is the only fair way to ensure that voters from less populated areas are represented.

The Electoral College is the law of the land.  At no point have I questioned it or made any remarks as to why it was created or whether it is a good idea.  I have been trying to stick with facts.  It's taken this many posts just to get people to acknowledge most American voters on Tuesday rejected Donald Trump and his ideas and Hillary had the most popular ideas.

I really don't want to get into the whole argument about the Electoral College.  Here is why...

Quote

During that key speech at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Madison said that with a popular vote, the Southern states, “could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.

 

Quote

His proposition for the Electoral College included the “three-fifths compromise,” where black people could be counted as three-fifths of a person, instead of a whole.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/

So the Electoral College and a "Republic" as Madison defined it was nothing more than a means to control "Negros" and a power grab based on those controlled blacks.  Not exactly the person I would quote when trying to convince people about my decision to vote for Trump.

Besides the good ol' slave days there has not been a divide between big and small states.  Go look at a list of the smallest states and then see who they voted for.  Some of the most conservative and some of the most liberal states are small states.  12 small states (Democrat and Republican) received 0 political events during the 2012 campaign.  No one even stopped in to see what they thought.  No one is checking in on them and they are voting right in line with the big boys.  The idea that South Dakota and Delaware are going to team up in some national battle royale against California and Texas is absurd.

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37 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Well, I can't say I found Clinton to be any more trustworthy about what she said than Trump.  More sophisticated in her rhetoric sure, but trustworthy?  Eh.

I actually had no intentions of voting until the last minute. I didn't feel comfortable not voting and then complaining, so I looked at the facts and voted based on how these elections will affect my life in 10 or 15 years.

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6 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

The Electoral College is the law of the land.  At no point have I questioned it or made any remarks as to why it was created or whether it is a good idea.  I have been trying to stick with facts.  It's taken this many posts just to get people to acknowledge most American voters on Tuesday rejected Donald Trump and his ideas and Hillary had the most popular ideas.

I really don't want to get into the whole argument about the Electoral College.  Here is why...

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/

So the Electoral College and a "Republic" as Madison defined it was nothing more than a means to control "Negros" and a power grab based on those controlled blacks.  Not exactly the person I would quote when trying to convince people about my decision to vote for Trump.

Besides the good ol' slave days there has not been a divide between big and small states.  Go look at a list of the smallest states and then see who they voted for.  Some of the most conservative and some of the most liberal states are small states.  12 small states (Democrat and Republican) received 0 political events during the 2012 campaign.  No one even stopped in to see what they thought.  No one is checking in on them and they are voting right in line with the big boys.  The idea that South Dakota and Delaware are going to team up in some national battle royale against California and Texas is absurd.

I'm sorry I cannot have a logical discussion with you. It seems like you just spent the past hour researching the history of the Electoral College to negate a truth in our political system. I don't have to agree with the exact reason the Electoral College came to be to see the merit in it.

Look you seem like you're a decent person but I am not going to apologize for who I voted for and I am not going stand idly by while you spread half truths, cherry pick facts, and write condescending posts because you didn't get your way this election cycle.

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3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

The majority of "The American People" did not vote for Trump.  It is totally unfair to blame us for all the bigotry, sexism, xenophobia, and ugliness he spewed.  I voted for Obama, twice.  I take responsibility for the good things he did and the wrong decisions he made.  Trump voters should take responsibility for their choice.  I don't want people around the world getting upset at "The American People".  Most of us are in the same camp as them. 

Just a clarification: In a democracy everyone shares responsibility. It doesn't matter whether you voted for Trump or Clinton. "The American People" voted for Trump and they should all be responsible for his actions. 

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Look, we should all just chill out a bit. Minute by minute DT shows us that he is moderating and becoming more accommodating. By "wall", he really meant "fence", and he has now coopted Breitbart to help steady the ship and Make America Great again. And we all know that Breitbart is a far more moderate and balanced media outlet than The NYT. Phew, for a minute I thought there might have been something to worry about. I'll get back to my gardening now.

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Bet you 10000 sheckels post Italian ref there will be no European Union to "Brexit" from ....... the ancient French moan Union against the Germans is irrelevant now - what Europe does need is a real world view on the US/Putin shit thats about to appear - no tin foil hat needed for that view lol 

Funnily the "gov" in the UD in the 50s used to pop people in prison for such thoughts - Trumpy -  no problem :)

Realistically no-one outside of the US really cares - China owns the dollar, the shark riding comedian from SPB has out-thunk the US, and you have a clown at the helm, at the mo  (impeachment currently not acted on) - all in all nothing will change apart from  Europe and the ROW, that the US  invaders immigrated from, will seem funnier than ever to us old world folk - Kanye next surely lol 

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Y'all have heard the sentiment that ideologies run in a circle, and when you go so far one direction you'll meet up with the other?  Why not consider 2016 as the year where those lines, maybe, got just a little closer?

Trump may be a goof ball and a POTUS disaster, he may not.  (He probably will be, he's Trump and he's up against the GOP and the Dems)  But he is where he is for what many voters feel are legitimate reasons.  I didn't vote for him, but I suggest we all let go of our tribalism and work together to solve issues that affect people other than the 1%.

Identity politics?  Meh.  Don't really care a lot about that.

The fact that the Democratic candidate was on the campaign trail and not seriously pounding the drum for traditional Democratic notions outta tell you something very very serious.  The fact that a GOP candidate was the one doing it (granted, it may all be lip service) blows my friggin' mind, but yet there it is.

Cats and dogs are living together, mass hysteria.

 

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11 hours ago, FilmMan said:

Interesting take here....

Yes, I've seen these clips months ago. Now what is left of all this cockiness is waling and gnashing of teeth. The protagonists have disappeared from the scene, and the only one who shrugged and pursued damage limitation was no separationist but a Brexit-opponent: May. The main promises were declared void the very day (immigrants are not expelled, money is not rerouted to Health Care - the figures were made up anyway - , fishing quota cannot be ignored,  and all that was left were the negative consequences, even before the Brexit is officially announced in the first place.

Britain had been VERY influential inside the EU. They negotiated so that they got everything on a silver plate anyway. London had effectively been the financial center of the EU. Aside of that Britain doesn't produce many things, even their tea mugs are seldom Made in Britain. Before the plebiscite there was a (semi-satirical) campaign self-explanatorily called Hug-a-Brit. We are in the same kindergarten, playing in the same sandbox. So don't cry, you can have the shovel ...

They got the shovel, always. And then some. Compared to this they are marginalized now. Little Britain. Looks as if Trump is ready to announce a new world order, receiving the gutless Farage so early. Swell club, like to join?

7 hours ago, Richard Bugg said:

Look, we should all just chill out a bit. Minute by minute DT shows us that he is moderating and becoming more accommodating. By "wall", he really meant "fence"...

Is there anyone who can defend this ridiculous behavior? This man is mad, isn't that obvious?

At least, some argue, he isn't corrupt.

Really?

But then in the sense that Vito Corleone wasn't corrupt. But old Vito had a sense of honor, distorted as his views were. He had power, but he was a quiet man with good taste. 

Talking about fences: twenty years ago there was a very good british (BBC) TV doc called The Rise Of Europe. Six parts, from the ice age to the foreseeable future. The last part was about the big migration period of the 21. century. The first world would try to stop the stampede, close their borders and build walls and fences. In the end, this never helped in history. Cultures rise and fall, the useful ways of life of the ancients (i.e. democracy) get adopted by the majority, everything else remains a footnote in the books.

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Im all for destroying mainstream media. Aside how they fckd us royally enabling Trump to get a platform to speak his nonsense as a content creator its bad for us. ATT is in talks with buying Time Warner Canle for $80 billion and alot of companies are trying to make their mass exodus from cable television to the internet. I personally think this will have a negative impact on the indie film market & bloggers as the media giants try to muscle their way into other forms of media

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24 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Im all for destroying mainstream media. Aside how they fckd us royally enabling Trump to get a platform to speak his nonsense as a content creator its bad for us. 

Denying the platform to speak is the real problem in a democracy. If Trump's rhetoric attracts people, we should look at why people are attracted to his views in the first place, and not blame media or Trump.

I would never vote for Trump, but given the responses that float around I am starting to believe that there is a serious disconnect between people in the states. Maybe US just got the president that actually represents the views of the average citizen and that should definitely get explored more. 

If anything this election will help people really understand the properties of a Democracy.  Are media biased ? Sure, but they should never be the platform of a Democracy. 

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