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Andrew Reid

Canon XC10 versus Sony RX10 III. The Canon is underrated!

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@bunk it's pretty interesting seeing other people's workflow, there's usually something I take from it. I use the FCPX Color Board for exposure and saturation and the Color Finale plug in for color balance, LUT (if I use one, I am trying to get better without using any LUTS) and any master S-Curve, or RGB curve tweak. I have been watching a few tutorials... hopefully they'll start sinking in... probably not because I have a horrible attention span. Btw, if you care, I did check the original footage and there was no macro blocking. Also none in the converted ProRes files. But when I added too many layers in the grade I notice some showing up in that blue sky, especially when I used an Impulz LUT... of course I liked my Impulz LUT grade the best...

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Just posted this today. Shot in 4k and 1080p slo-mo---Vimeo forced upload in 720p.

All handheld--moving, slider/stabilizer-like shots done in slo-mo, hand held, in Dynamic IS. Shot in C-log, graded in FCPX and Color Finale. Several hand graded clips as well as grades using one of the Canon C300 mk II LUTs. Bright Texas sun requires internal ND as well as Variable ND on lens for proper exposure. Many wide angle shots were done with Canon wide angle lens attached.

 

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On July 24, 2016 at 2:15 PM, tomsemiterrific said:

This camera is meant to be used in automatic modes. Andrew is spot on about that. Only use manual in controlled shooting circumstances, interviews, etc, where you're in full charge of lighting. 

I prefer TV mode for outside shooting. In full manual I tend to program the ISO to the wheel and ride it. But outside the in-camera ND is not sufficient in bright sun like we have here in Texas. If you rely only on it you will miss lots of shots due to over exposure.

The best result I get with the least angst in harsh sun is to put the nd on, shoot in TV mode, and add a Tiffen Variable ND on the lens. I try to minimize riding the  shutter on the wheel in TV mode by making quick adjustments with the Variable ND. The results I've gotten has worked just fine and I lose very few shots due to exposure issues. I also set my Zebra to 70 IRE and that helps me gauge my highlights. Setting the Zebra at 100 IRE--well, once you hit that you've already screwed the pooch and shot a lot of unusable footage.

Hey Tom, really great info here. The 70 zebras saved me the other day, but I have a question regarding shooting in TV with C-Log. If the camera is setting the ISO and aperture for me, does it know the proper exposure for the best C-Log results? You mention using the Tiffen Fader ND, but when you darken the image with the Fader ND, doesn't the camera adjust the aperture accordingly, or does the +/- ae adjustment automatically lock the exposure, so then you're free to adjust the ND appropriately?

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The sensor tends to be a bit bright. I usually shoot exposure lock -1/4 to 1/2. That exposes C-log pretty well. If it's not too bright I use -1/4, If it's bright I use -1/2 but either is pretty forgiving. If you can keep your highs below 80 IRE in C Log you're going to get pretty good exposure in most cases.

I just shot this yesterday with C log at -1/2 mostly---very, very bright in Texas now and 100 plus.

 

I allow zebras at 70 IRE--it's just an indication you're getting close to over exposing in log.

See if you can get the Canon C300 Mk II LUTS from this site. They work great for grading XC10 Clog.

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6 minutes ago, tomsemiterrific said:

The sensor tends to be a bit bright. I usually shoot exposure lock -1/4 to 1/2. That exposes C-log pretty well. If it's not too bright I use -1/4, If it's bright I use -1/2 but either is pretty forgiving. If you can keep your highs below 80 IRE in C Log you're going to get pretty good exposure in most cases.

I just shot this yesterday with C log at -1/2 mostly---very, very bright in Texas now and 100 plus.

 

I allow zebras at 70 IRE--it's just an indication you're getting close to over exposing in log.

See if you can get the Canon C300 Mk II LUTS from this site. They work great for grading XC10 Clog.

I just finished watching that video... Beautiful footage. The 4K on this camera is nuts. Did you add any sharpening in post?

I have to get some more C-Fast cards... What brand are you using?

Thanks again for the tips. I'll have to check out that LUT. Did you say you got it here? I don't like the one that comes with Color Finale... Of course I am trying to get better at color correction/grading without any LUTS.

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Lexar, San Disk extreme--it's a pretty democratic camera as to what works well. 

The right LUT can give consistency to your footage and make grading quicker. I did add sharpening. You almost have to in Log, since shooting in Log removes any and all in camera sharpening whatsoever. 

I got the LUTS from Canon web site---

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6 hours ago, mercer said:

Thanks again for the tips. I'll have to check out that LUT. Did you say you got it here? I don't like the one that comes with Color Finale... Of course I am trying to get better at color correction/grading without any LUTS.

 Of course working at color grading is a great idea. I've spent years at it now. But getting a good LUT for particular footage and then grading it can give you great results, save a lot of time, and help you get stylistic uniformity to your footage.

These Canon C300 MK II LUTS (there's a bunch of them)--the C-LOG LUTS for the C300 MK II work very well. Try to use WDR luts because they give you better dynamic range. Rec. 709 LUTS will clip and the highlight will washout--especially clouds and even the skies will turn white. Use WDR Canon Mk II LUTS you and you'll get better results in the highlights.

I think this is pretty good advice. But, keep in mind, I just an amateur.

PS

I'm in the process of posting another tweety bird video (only 4 minutes)--but uploaded in 4k, so the quality, once they fully upload it, should be much better than the first bird video, which I could only upload in 720p because of the slo-mo footage.

 

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10 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Lexar, San Disk extreme--it's a pretty democratic camera as to what works well. 

The right LUT can give consistency to your footage and make grading quicker. I did add sharpening. You almost have to in Log, since shooting in Log removes any and all in camera sharpening whatsoever. 

I got the LUTS from Canon web site---

I think I just like a softer image because I have only added sharpening to one of my clips thus far. Do you use the Sharpen effect in FCPX? That's what I had used, just at its default... I think it's 2.5. 

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6 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

 Of course working at color grading is a great idea. I've spent years at it now. But getting a good LUT for particular footage and then grading it can give you great results, save a lot of time, and help you get stylistic uniformity to your footage.

These Canon C300 MK II LUTS (there's a bunch of them)--the C-LOG LUTS for the C300 MK II work very well. Try to use WDR luts because they give you better dynamic range. Rec. 709 LUTS will clip and the highlight will washout--especially clouds and even the skies will turn white. Use WDR Canon Mk II LUTS you and you'll get better results in the highlights.

I think this is pretty good advice. But, keep in mind, I just an amateur.

PS

I'm in the process of posting another tweety bird video (only 4 minutes)--but uploaded in 4k, so the quality, once they fully upload it, should be much better than the first bird video, which I could only upload in 720p because of the slo-mo footage.

 

Thanks, I'll definitely check those out. I didn't even know Canon made LUTS... Makes sense though. I did try some of the Impulz Log LUTS and they worked beautifully. In some of my wide shots, where the sky was very prevalent in the shot, I noticed they introduced a little macro blocking, though. 

 I actually start off with the simple 3 Strip LUT that comes with Color Finale. I found it helps to balance the image and it introduces just enough saturation to start the grade. 

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23 hours ago, mercer said:

No they didn't... "multi media tool" is mentioned once in the initial press release whereas "camcorder" shows up 19 times. Never once in the press release is the word "hybrid" used.

http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa-introduces-xc10-4k-camcorder.html

Reviewers were comparing it to hybrids because of the form factor and built in lens. Canon marketed it as a professional camcorder. After using it for a few days, I feel it deserves the moniker, professional cine-camcorder.

Or prosumer cine camcorder if you prefer.

http://www.gizmag.com/canon-4k-video-c300-m2-xc10/36923/

https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-announces-new-xc10-4k-video-stills-camcorder/

http://www.canonrumors.com/announcement-canon-xc10-a-breakthrough-compact-4k-video-and-stills-camcorder/

http://canon.ca/inetCA/en/products/method/gp/pid/44258

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/crossing-the-bridge-canon-xc10-review

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/review-canon-xc10-1-4k-hybrid-compact-cameracamcorder.html

https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/products/xc-10/xc-10.shtml

And watch this video at around 8:20, where the Canon rep clearly states what it is for:

 

Facts are a bitch :)

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27 minutes ago, tugela said:

Not really, there is a big difference between having hybrid capabilities and being completely marketed as a hybrid camera... Which is what you said. It's a camcorder that takes stills... But really what is the difference anyway? You obviously are not enamored by anything that says Canon on it, so don't buy anything with that badge. I don't care if you like Canon products, why do you care so much that other people do?

I mean, this is getting really ridiculous now. You only post on the forum to ridicule Canon. Do you work for Sony, or Nikon, or another company... Or are you just so bored that you have nothing better to do?

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While Canon may have said it is a hybrid camera, they didn't trump it as a bridge camera which is what most people seem to compare it to.  To my mind, almost every photo camera now is a hybrid that can take stills and decent video including dSLR's, but the XC10 is a camcorder that has better still capability than other camcorders.

In any case, I don't think anyone who saw the Canon press releases or videos, would think 'I'm not interested in video at all but Canon says XC10 is great at stills, so I'll get it), whereas a bridge camera may be brought by someone with no interest in video at all.

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On July 27, 2016 at 6:32 PM, mercer said:

I just finished watching that video... Beautiful footage. The 4K on this camera is nuts. Did you add any sharpening in post?

 

Here is another version of the birds...Vimeo allowed me to upload it in 4k---so the footage comes out a LOT better---I used a C-300 mk ii LUT and graded it...I don't think it came out badly.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 2:06 PM, hmcindie said:

tugelas first post ever in EOSHD was canon bashing in 2014. Talk about salty dude.

I've never actually seen him post anything he has shot? 

I wanted a hybrid, because that is what is suitable for my shooting. I have been a long time Canon user, but for whatever reason Canon have decided not to make such a camera, that is the reason for my dissatisfaction with them. Making something like the XC10 and trying to pass it off as a "hybrid" when it is really a camcorder disguised as a hybrid pisses me off. Why could they not have just made a real camcorder if that is what they wanted to do? The thing probably would have been a lot more successful and appealed to a wider market if they had. They already have all the components they need in the G/XA form, just put the dam electronics in it for Pete's sake. Instead they produce crap like the G40 and XA30/35, which are just slightly updated versions of the old G/XA cameras.

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Canon have the colour-path and codec nailed to perfection on the XC10. I am also impressed with the dynamic range of the sensor, even in the most contrasty picture profile it rarely struggles no matter the light thrown at it.

I have also been enjoying the stabilisation, very impressive.

Shot for 3 weeks in Italy with it and editing now.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon have the colour-path and codec nailed to perfection on the XC10. I am also impressed with the dynamic range of the sensor, even in the most contrasty picture profile it rarely struggles no matter the light thrown at it.

I have also been enjoying the stabilisation, very impressive.

Shot for 3 weeks in Italy with it and editing now.

 

Yeah, Andrew, cannot wait to see the footage! Awesome! XC10 shown an "organic" image in the promotion footage with granddaddy chasing streetrobbers.

"..Color-path, codec, nailed to perfection.." sounds so cool. Forum contributor Mercer seems to have healed his GAS with the XC10- we will see:=)

Really exited to be on your awesome community!

To people thirsty for some more inspiration, just check out this cool EOSHD thread:

 

 

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The XC10 really makes shooting fun again. Between C-Log, the IS and the 4K image, there's nothing not to like about the camera. If you feel like shooting auto, have at it, it's a pleasure. The face tracking works great in AF. If you feel like shooting in manual. The step less exposure wheel let's you ride the exposure as you follow your talent in and out of different lighting scenarios. It's just very intuitive. Every button is where you need it to be, but the most important thing is the image and you can shoot in high bitrate 4K or even the MXF 1080p in C-Log or WideDR is just gorgeous and still very flexible in post. The best purchase ai have ever made for video... So much so I have C100 saved in my eBay watch list... If the prices get in the right ballpark, for me, I can easily see myself picking one up and maybe a 20-35mm L lens. 

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