Jump to content

Canon XC10 versus Sony RX10 III. The Canon is underrated!


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 211
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I've just finished filming a short film.  We used 5D Raw, A7s + speed booster, GH4 + speed booster, and the XC10.  The best looking and "organic moving" footage in my opinion came from the 5D Raw and

Canon have the colour-path and codec nailed to perfection on the XC10. I am also impressed with the dynamic range of the sensor, even in the most contrasty picture profile it rarely struggles no matte

All cameras are good these days.  If you're still a spec sheet nerd, good for you.  The pros I know will use anything that ultimately does the job.  Even cheap "plasticy" cameras with lower build qual

Posted Images

Yeah, I was looking at standard too, probably with the sharpening dialled down a little. Would you still add any post LUTtage to that, or leave it as is (your work always seems highly stylised to me, so I'm guessing the former)? As an aside, just for fun, I manually 'legalised' some of my C log test shots then played around with some looks LUTS (DeLUTS) designed for Sony Cine4 and they didn't look too bad at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

@Tim Sewell thats awesome! Gotta try that out one day or just open up my wallet and purchas his CLOG deluts!

I want something that I can tweak slightly in post and get a stylized image. The closer I can bring the footage to the final look the better. I read the EBU white paper on the xc10 and their findings show +1 sharpening resolves the 4k detail and +2 in HD are the highest you should go. Just gotta see how it affects motion cadence now ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrew Reid wrote:
"In Tv the shutter speed is all yours to control on the dial – here the camera tries to leave the aperture open unless the scene is too bright for an 180 degree shutter at F2.8 or F5.6 with the ND filter on… then it will stop down the lens automatically. If you ride the shutter to, say, 1/200 the camera will go wide open on the lens and the exposure should be correct even in the brightest direct sunlight at this shutter speed with the ND filter engaged."

I have a question about this practice. I can see it can work and work well for exposure. But how does the shutter speed affect the way objects in motion look, most importantly people walking and/or running?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Xc10 at the top @tomsemiterrific! I am amazed at how close they match. Dare I say they look identical, wow

Yes, they're very, very close, which is really encouraging. If you have both these cameras you have a fantastic A camera and a B camera, or just buy 2 XC15s, or 1XC15 for audio, and 1 XC10 as a B camera--and you're all set.

I did very, very little adjustment to these two shots. both in C-log, both in 4k, both shooting AWB, minor adjustment in exposure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Second attempt...which is which?

which is which.jpg

Yeah, this is a cool test. I don't have any exact numbers, but I know a lot of TV shows use the C300, and I'm sure a few features as well... So the fact that an indie filmmaker could pick up an XC10/15 for around 2 grand and shoot at C300 level is astonishing and one of the reasons I bought the XC10.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah, this is a cool test. I don't have any exact numbers, but I know a lot of TV shows use the C300, and I'm sure a few features as well... So the fact that an indie filmmaker could pick up an XC10/15 for around 2 grand and shoot at C300 level is astonishing and one of the reasons I bought the XC10.

It took me a year and a half to talk myself into buying and XC10--and boy, am I glad I did. It's not only got a beautiful, clean, robust image, it's really fun to shoot. The XC15 makes several things better, and the XLR produces a very clean audio---the equivalent of the C300m2. And the additional custom profiles and expanded color pallet gives you a wide range of choices. I also like that Canon didn't substantially raise the price--selling the XC15 at the original price of the XC10.

I think it's really interesting the way Andrew Reid describes using the XC10/15 for exposure---shooting in TV mode and running the shutter speed up to 200 in bright sunlight. It actually works, but I haven't done enough shooting that way to see how it affects the look of movement..like people walking or gesturing. Any ideas?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, tomsemiterrific said:

It took me a year and a half to talk myself into buying and XC10--and boy, am I glad I did. It's not only got a beautiful, clean, robust image, it's really fun to shoot. The XC15 makes several things better, and the XLR produces a very clean audio---the equivalent of the C300m2. And the additional custom profiles and expanded color pallet gives you a wide range of choices. I also like that Canon didn't substantially raise the price--selling the XC15 at the original price of the XC10.

I think it's really interesting the way Andrew Reid describes using the XC10/15 for exposure---shooting in TV mode and running the shutter speed up to 200 in bright sunlight. It actually works, but I haven't done enough shooting that way to see how it affects the look of movement..like people walking or gesturing. Any ideas?

Running the camera in TV mode and riding the shutter speed will affect motion blur, so I personally wouldn't do it, but my intention for the camera is narrative filmmaking... For docs and event work, his method seems like a great approach.

I think @kidzrevil changes the shutter speed instead of using nd filters, so take a look at his videos to decide how you think the motion blur looks. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2016 at 11:51 AM, mercer said:

Running the camera in TV mode and riding the shutter speed will affect motion blur, so I personally wouldn't do it, but my intention for the camera is narrative filmmaking... For docs and event work, his method seems like a great approach.

I think @kidzrevil changes the shutter speed instead of using nd filters, so take a look at his videos to decide how you think the motion blur looks. 

yup, I use shutter speed and the in camera ND filter to adjust exposure :-D

also started a new topic on the XC10. Hopefully canon hears us out and updates the firmware

hate to say it but the problems in the XC10 image processing is non existent on the sony rx10ii. No ghosting above 500 iso. The noise reduction processing in the xc10 can be a nightmare

4000iso.jpg

afterimage.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Just writing to thank Andrew for the review.

I've been an XC10 owner for some time, and mainly use it as a C camera in corporate interviews with two C100s, and it does complement them very well. Occasionally use the 4K when we have to shoot a panel of three people -- just so you can crop in for singles and two shots. The lightness and compactness of the camera are definitely plusses. Main cons for this sort of mundane usage: no waveform (no exposure guide except the basic exposure needle); the colour doesn't quite match C100, even when used with same picture profile; frankly, I think the white balancing sucks, and I'm not sure why -- just doesn't seem as accurate as the C100s or Canon DSLRs.

Apparently, the XC15 fixes some of these problems, by the way.

For run and gun, I've found the XC10 a frustrating camera, because it's not designed to be a durable beast, because you can't pull quick zooms manually, and because (I thought) you have to menu dive to access things like ISO and shutter. Interesting to read Andrew's take on how he thinks the camera ought to be used -- some great tips. Still, for weddings and any sorts of shooting equally as unpredictable, give me a 5D2 or 5D3 over both XC10 and C100 anytime, with all the physical controls, and with their durability and reliability under different weather conditions and temperatures.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
On 2016-6-4 at 0:48 PM, tugela said:

Keep in mind that these are supposed to by hybrids, not pure camcorders. The XC10 is a piece of crap for stills. If you were to go out and have the option of carrying one camera for all of your imaging, the RX10III does it all, whereas with the XC10 you would need at least another camera.

That was always the big problem with the XC10. The image quality was ok in terms of color, and fine for HD, but resolution not so much when you were looking at 4K. The stills capability is a sad joke. You also require relatively expensive media to access the advanced end of the video spectrum, and, with all due respect to Andrew, having a giant loupe attached to the thing is awkward.

If you want a one stop shop and you are traveling/hiking/generally mobile, the RX10III is the better camera.

Completely agree, plus you get the top-LCD.... which I wonder why the original review omitted that as a "pro" seriously biased and disgustingly canon-fanboy review. People just need to look at images irrespective of what they were shot on. You'll remove all subjectivity as looking at some of his "Pro"'s for the canon, it's pretty obvious which are technically incorrect and completely subjective:

 

Superb live-view quality and touch screen LCD, which is bright and vivid both indoors and outdoors

Sensible menus and clean presentation of on-screen shooting info

Simple and effective controls layout

Compact 24-240mm zoom doesn’t physically extend very far at the telephoto end

Balanced and robust build quality

Lovely Bolex feel to the manual zoom ring

AF doesn’t look electronic, it is almost entirely without hunting, jittering or darting off suddenly

 

Really? If you're going to talk about the "bright and vivid" colours indoors and outdoors let's get some perspective. This is further exacerbated by the following line in the blog "The screen is superb and has better visibility in direct sunlight than the RX10 III’s."

 

So... at which time of day were these test performed? What was the brightness in lumens being recorded? was it cloudy, sunny etc..? Subjective statements have no factual basis other than "i think therefor..." 

 

Also this comment:
"On the RX10 III you find yourself using full manual controls more as the automatic behaviour isn’t as good, and you find yourself using very high shutter speeds outdoors as there’s no ND." What specific test scenario's were you using? Simply using auto at least as a photographer is something I never do... either shoot in Aperture, Shutter or Full manual mode...

 

Also, why isn't it mentioned that the RX10iii does 1/32000 shutter speed vs the paltry 1/2000 shutter speed? That is definitely a pro.

3.8fps on the XC10 vs 14 on the Sony? Really...

 

On 2016-6-4 at 4:32 PM, nikos said:

Hey Andrew,

great review but I would like to correct something...

you wrote "In full HD you get proper tracking and object detection plus touch-screen AF. All this gets disabled in 4K and sometimes the camera will put the background in focus and not the intended subject. It can be hard to coax it in 4K without the touch AF."

this is not true. The touch AF works in 4k. It is disabled only if you enable the rolling shutter reduction mode. If you disable the rs reduction it works perfect.

Thanks again for the review.

 

In hd maybe but there is no noise up to 5000iso in 4k.

Not bad...

 

I am still looking to find out what is going on with the resolution in 4k. I think there is a loss in resolution in c-log that dose not exist in standard profile.

But you are wrong about the mobile run and gun shooter. xc10 is far superior because it has very good, actually excellent image stabilization for video. This is one of the big thinks in xc10 and it is surprisingly good.

I know this is a forum for "film makers" but why would anyone buy a Hybrid and expect super stellar film? I have in the past owned an A7ii, and an A6000 and whilst I'm setting aside some money towards an A99ii (as I have some nice lenses to utilise f.28 28-75, 50mm 1.4) I'm currently shooting with a Pentax K1 for planned shots and the RX10iii for every day.... Not lugging around a million lenses and having great telephoto and wide is a big gift to say the least.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@vasboz 

"know this is a forum for "film makers" but why would anyone buy a Hybrid and expect super stellar film?"

you're putting way too much emphasis on the equipment and not the filmmaker. The Canon 5D mark ii was once the must have camera. Plenty of guys on this forum shoot with hybrid cameras and get excellent results. You may mistake some of their shots for RED camera material ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-6-15 at 11:22 PM, vasboz said:

Really? 

So first you bash the XC10 (that's fine) but then you say that the RX10iii is great. What the... The RX10ii is shit (except for the slowmo's) and the RX10iii is basically the same camera with a different lens and no ND's. So it's even worse really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...