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Canon 18-80mm f4


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51 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

$5,225.00 for a T4.4? No thanks. I'd rather adapt something else. But hey, that's just me.

Are there other motorized zoom lenses available? Also these will supposedly work with the joystick on the new c100/c300 firmware... Obviously out of budget, but cool to rent for events and stuff where smooth in camera zooms are needed.

 

"C100 Mk II – Late July

This firmware will allow DAF, Focus Guides, One Shot AF & Auto Iris, Push Auto Iris to work with the CN7 & CN18-80mm lens (CINE Servo lens).

To support the function of the Cine Servo lens, the firmware update introduces a new capability for the joystick. This will control the zoom operation of the lens, up for tele, down for wide."

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Notice the 'I'd' and 'just me'. I wouldn't shoot a Canon to begin with, tbh.

But anyways... the PXW-FS5K for example includes a SELP18105G. That's the Powerzoom 18-105mm f/4 G OSS E-mount lens. It goes for $548.00. You know. Not that I would go that way either. But it just seems a bit over the top... so, more or less typically Canon. But like the XC10, I know there's always going to be people that will appreciate it. I just don't see it. I'll make do with other set-ups. He asked for thoughts, I gave him one.

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55 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

it just seems a bit over the top... so, more or less typically Canon. 

Sometimes I wonder if Canon really assesses the market before spending time and money on a new product...

They appear to be banking too much on their lens mount. You can basically buy an FS5 with the 18-105 f4 powerzoom lens for about the price of this lens. 

I just don't really know where it will sit in the market. The range is covered by both the Fuji Cabrio, and also their own 17-120, so it doesn't make a great deal of rental sense. Price-wise has already been mentioned.

It's like more and more they seem to be happy to be playing in niche spaces. As with the XC10, I'm sure this will be a totally fine product. But is it much more than something that fills a small niche? Are Canon happy to be playing in small niches?

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26 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Sometimes I wonder if Canon really assesses the market before spending time and money on a new product...

They appear to be banking too much on their lens mount. You can basically buy an FS5 with the 18-105 f4 powerzoom lens for about the price of this lens. 

I just don't really know where it will sit in the market. The range is covered by both the Fuji Cabrio, and also their own 17-120, so it doesn't make a great deal of rental sense. Price-wise has already been mentioned.

It's like more and more they seem to be happy to be playing in niche spaces. As with the XC10, I'm sure this will be a totally fine product. But is it much more than something that fills a small niche? Are Canon happy to be playing in small niches?

This seems more comparable to the Sony 28-135, which is around 2500.

The pros will like this lens... You can control the zooming with grip on the c100/c300. To blow everything away I guess it would really need to be an F3.5 or F2.8. If this lens is amazing optically, that will be huge as well. 

Has anyone used the Sony 28 - 135? That lens looks beastly for the price.

 

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24 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

This seems more comparable to the Sony 28-135, which is around 2500.

The pros will like this lens... You can control the zooming with grip on the c100/c300. To blow everything away I guess it would really need to be an F3.5 or F2.8. If this lens is amazing optically, that will be huge as well. 

Has anyone used the Sony 28 - 135? That lens looks beastly for the price.

 

The 28-135 is still half the price, and gives you better range. It's a great lens - though does have its weird/annoying quirks

I just think they would have been better making it a T2.95 and giving it a $15k price point. 1/2 the price of a Cabrio, for almost as much range, and just as fast? Awesome. 1/2 the price of their 17-120, just as fast, but with a reduced range? Awesome. Even a $20k price point for T2.95.

Instead, it's slower than a 24-70mm f/2.8, with slightly more range and the benefit of a power zoom.

It reminds me of Sony's power zoom for the F3. That was similarly priced, quite a nice lens... a bit faster at the wide end, significantly more range (18-252mm, with the slight tradeoff of variable aperture at the telephoto end) etc. etc. 

Didn't do terribly well..

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It's T4.4, and F4, constant aperture and constant light Transmission. Great for fast interior shooting (no lens changes, can zoom for effect), run and gun, and doc work. To be ~T3 and F2.8 would be a much larger, heavier, and more expensive lens. I might rent one for the C300 II. It's a variable servo cinema zoom- the price is decent considering the price of cinema primes (around $5K each for Canon's cinema primes).

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43 minutes ago, jcs said:

It's T4.4, and F4, constant aperture and constant light Transmission. Great for fast interior shooting (no lens changes, can zoom for effect), run and gun, and doc work. To be ~T3 and F2.8 would be a much larger, heavier, and more expensive lens. I might rent one for the C300 II. It's a variable servo cinema zoom- the price is decent considering the price of cinema primes (around $5K each for Canon's cinema primes).

Yeah, I get all that. It's 1/2 the size and 1/2 the weight of a (albeit already fairly small and light) Fuji Cabrio 19-90. 

It just seems to me like a real niche product. Sure, it might be an okay rental every now and then for a job or two. But are people really going to invest in it as an 'everyday' lens for their C(x)00? I just don't see it happening. It didn't for the F3, and I just can't see it happening with this. It may have its uses here and there, and sure some people will love it. But what does it offer, other than a servo, that other lenses that cost significantly less, don't? 

I just don't think it will be much of a mainstream lens - hence my question: are Canon happy playing at the edges, in the niches?

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It's strange that people will say "well this lens cost 10% of the price" without seeing the quality or thinking about the usage outside their own needs. Some of the 2/3” servos cost a fortune.

I'll never buy or use this, as I don't do ENG, but I can see that it is "cheap" and will be popular.

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50 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

It's strange that people will say "well this lens cost 10% of the price" without seeing the quality or thinking about the usage outside their own needs. Some of the 2/3” servos cost a fortune.

I'll never buy or use this, as I don't do ENG, but I can see that it is "cheap" and will be popular.

The difference is, there's no 'cheap' option for 2/3" cameras. You've got hugely expensive zooms, or even more expensive Digi Primes. 

My point is merely that there's a lot of competition these days, and with the trend being towards 'faster for cheaper', one has to wonder how a slower lens will sell, regardless of the power zoom feature.

The question is really - how many people want a servo so bad they're willing to fork out 10x the cost for it?

I'm not saying it won't find a market. I'm just saying the market may be small. Is that where Canon wants to play? They seemed to go right for the jugular with their 17-120, which is longer and just as fast as the Fuji 19-90, with a similar weight and size. And it's cheaper.

Their other cinema zooms have great glass, are generally very fast, and much cheaper than their equivalent competition (like a Cabrio or Alura). 

Following up the 17-120 with this.. It's just a bit.. unexpected. I'm sure the glass will be great. I just don't have faith that there's an inredibly huge market for T4.4 lenses out there..

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5 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

with the trend being towards 'faster for cheaper

Is that a trend in the ENG/Events market? 

Everyone wants better value for money.. But pro ENG shooters demand a certain quality and set of features. It seems slow for cinema use, but anyone who has been using 2/3" lenses will be right at home.

A quick glance at the dvx forum shows alot of interest. 

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It's aimed at a certain market, and in that market it will cause a stir as it's a reasonable price and adds another use to the C system. It means the C bodies can be used by amatuer film-makers, cinematographers and for ENG style use alike, though for the last you'd need a mount to reposition the handle and so on, which you can gat from Zacuto.

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I don't understand the people saying there won't be a market for it and that it will be a niche product. There are probably tons of people with c300s (though not a ton at EOSHD) that do run and gun stuff for whom this would be perfect. The servo let's you cover things on the fly incredibly well and you get and you get an unimpeachable image at a constant aperture in a pretty useful zoom range. T4.4 isn't a huge deal if you have a camera that performs well at higher iso and the lens is a fraction of the cost of a lot of other servo zooms. 

Some people at EOSHD seem to act like if it doesn't appeal to the Blackmagic, GH4 crowd then there is going to be no demand for it, but there is a whole market of video professionals that are probably psyched about this.

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18 minutes ago, WyattMaurer said:

Some people at EOSHD seem to act like if it doesn't appeal to the Blackmagic, GH4 crowd then there is going to be no demand for it, but there is a whole market of video professionals that are probably psyched about this.

A much larger and more boring market of low end pros, yes. Sort of like the market for the C100 and C300.

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