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herakel

BM or Red?

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Hello

Right now im shooting with the blackmagic pocket camera wich is absolutely amazing. However, it doesn't really suit me well since its quite small and i have it mounted on my Dji Ronin. Another reason is that i shoot musicvideos and they often require slowmotion wich the pocket camera doesn't have. Therefor im looking for a new camera to buy and the ones iv been looking into are the new Ursa mini and Red Raven. It seems like Raven is better suited for gimbals wich makes it very interesting. The price of the ursa mini and specs are tempting aswell. The only problem with ursa is the size imo. The fields i work in are musicvideos and movies. 

Wich one is the better choice for me? and in terms of image quality, do these two cameras mach? 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

How serious business are these music videos and movies?

If you can somehow manage to get the budget to buy... or well, you can always rent... this might just be the ultimate thing, the Alexa Mini:

ARRI_ALEXA_Mini_04.jpg

But yeah... that aside. I think for what you're trying to do the RED might be the better choice. Just curious as to why you wouldn't consider Sony?

fs5-movi-702x374.jpg

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Just look at videos shot with both and specs and then if possible rent and play w raw footage from both.

Each has a different motion cadence and skintone handling dunamic range etc. Its up to your taste. And of course price out media lcd etc to see cost. If bm is cheaper and that gets you other stuff you can buy like a nicer lens then that maybe something to think about too.

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If only BM releases their cams on time! Lol

Agree with above, Sony is a great option as well. FS7, etc. which is the direction I'm going. 

But depends on your budget for a camera setup. The RED Raven is well over $10K plus accessories for a ready to shoot kit.

Your jumping way up to a different tier, a ~$1K bmpcc to a $10K plus if you go RED.

Pick a camera that has the features you want/need now. But still fits within your budget.

Good luck

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wait a bit, get a BM micro cinema, it has 60fps, when you need slower use twixtor,  shoot raw, well exposed and with OK post, on youtube no one will tell it from Alexa,

very cost effective solution for music videos;

the only thing it is ridiculously small and most of the 'artists' will not take you seriously, so yeah,  shooting on Red adds to your resume you want it or not,

but your demo and your price are the two major decision making factors,

good luck, and post some music videos!

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+1 on Alexa Mini if you can afford it, but the total cost will exceed $100k. You might also be able to increase your wet hire rate substantially.

I don't like the Red "look" but most clients seem to like it a lot and the specs are quite nice, but their lower end cameras have rented poorly and you will face some competition from rich kids.

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Well, Alexa is way to expensive for my budget. At the moment, Raven is most interesting because of size and slowmotion capabilities. About Sony fs7, actually i haven't thought of that one. Though it seems to be quite big, similar to ursa mini. Also, its the problem with lenses. I have two pair of Samyang EF lenses wich i can use with either raven or ursa.

 

Though i dont think Raven price has to be that big. The only thing i need to buy is brain + jetpack as it can be powered through the ronin and controlled through wifi and a 3rd party monitor. 

 

@bzpopBM micro cinema camera is really interesting indeed! btw here is a showreel of most of the things iv done

 

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I was actually thinking of the other Sony FS, as the FS7 indeed is a little big. The one in the image showed above with the MOVI was a FS5.

FS5_and_FS7_size_comparison.jpg

sony-fs5-9body-web-main1.jpg

And what would keep you from using your Samyang EF lenses on a Sony FS5 (the smaller Sony) exactly? I don't get that bit. It has the flexible Sony E-mount.

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Ah ok, you need the RAWs. That would be...

Quote

On-board 4K recording at 3840 x 2160 resolution with Sony's XAVC™ Long codec

Outboard RAW recording as a future option (details to be announced)

[..]

A future firmware build will add “FS RAW” recording, including simultaneous recording of video internally (XAVC) plus FS RAW to an external recorder.

So yeah, nothing like that internally. True that.

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BMPCC is "too small" yet you use it on a gimbal? Sounds rather contradictory!!

Plus it sounds like you've got very very few lenses.

I'd recommend instead investing in more lenses (and likely you need more lighting gear), and getting a Blackmaigc Micro Cinema Camera (60fps FHD! Plus global shutter!) when it ships.

Rather than squandering your money on a RED Raven.

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13 hours ago, herakel said:

Well, Alexa is way to expensive for my budget. At the moment, Raven is most interesting because of size and slowmotion capabilities. About Sony fs7, actually i haven't thought of that one. Though it seems to be quite big, similar to ursa mini. Also, its the problem with lenses. I have two pair of Samyang EF lenses wich i can use with either raven or ursa.

 

Though i dont think Raven price has to be that big. The only thing i need to buy is brain + jetpack as it can be powered through the ronin and controlled through wifi and a 3rd party monitor. 

 

@bzpopBM micro cinema camera is really interesting indeed! btw here is a showreel of most of the things iv done

nice reel but dam dude that techno music that is all over web and u reel is dam annoying i just mute it

 

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

BMPCC is "too small" yet you use it on a gimbal? Sounds rather contradictory!!

Plus it sounds like you've got very very few lenses.

I'd recommend instead investing in more lenses (and likely you need more lighting gear), and getting a Blackmaigc Micro Cinema Camera (60fps FHD! Plus global shutter!) when it ships.

Rather than squandering your money on a RED Raven.

Yes, BMPCC is to small/light weight for Ronin. It does work however, i recently shoot a shortmovie with this combination. But its far from ideal, i can tell you. 

 

Investing in lenses is a good idea. However, the ones i have are good and fullfill my needs. Micro cinema camera is a good(and cheap) alternative wich im considering. 

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15 hours ago, bzpop said:

wait a bit, get a BM micro cinema, it has 60fps, when you need slower use twixtor,  shoot raw, well exposed and with OK post, on youtube no one will tell it from Alexa,

very cost effective solution for music videos;

the only thing it is ridiculously small and most of the 'artists' will not take you seriously, so yeah,  shooting on Red adds to your resume you want it or not,

but your demo and your price are the two major decision making factors,

good luck, and post some music videos!

well twixor is nice but it also creates problems if you don't shoot right in camera slow mo is always better looking.

on youtube no one will tell it from Alexa. Oh common now you can totally tell the difference when you use alexa and master primes grading ect ect

 

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17 hours ago, herakel said:

Hello

Right now im shooting with the blackmagic pocket camera wich is absolutely amazing. However, it doesn't really suit me well since its quite small and i have it mounted on my Dji Ronin. Another reason is that i shoot musicvideos and they often require slowmotion wich the pocket camera doesn't have. Therefor im looking for a new camera to buy and the ones iv been looking into are the new Ursa mini and Red Raven. It seems like Raven is better suited for gimbals wich makes it very interesting. The price of the ursa mini and specs are tempting aswell. The only problem with ursa is the size imo. The fields i work in are musicvideos and movies. 

Wich one is the better choice for me? and in terms of image quality, do these two cameras mach? 

 

If you are making living from your music videos and are serious about what you do then by all means get a red they have great cameras great support and non of those problems that black magic cameras have. You can allays rent lenses

Oh and i dont know if you know red user marketplace has red cams fully loaded ready to shoot in you price.

red scarlet mx ready to shoot and come with canon mount $8500

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?142136-SCARLET-MX-Cine-Package

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32 minutes ago, enny said:

If you are making living from your music videos and are serious about what you do then by all means get a red they have great cameras great support and non of those problems that black magic cameras have. You can allays rent lenses

I had the BM production camera before and there was the problem with FPN wich could be annoying some times and it seems some ursa mini owners are experiencing the same problem. The pocket camera however is a masterpiece. Pity it doesn't shoot slowmotion. But as for Red Raven, its a very interesting camera indeed.

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Just now, herakel said:

I had the BM production camera before and there was the problem with FPN wich could be annoying some times and it seems some ursa mini owners are experiencing the same problem. The pocket camera however is a masterpiece. Pity it doesn't shoot slowmotion. But as for Red Raven, its a very interesting camera indeed.

ursa mini or red if i head to pick man same price even if red in 1000 more i would go red all the way. Lots of people have problems just google it with ursa it like they release the camera you buy it and then over time it will get to what they promise in the first place with updates and fixes. Reds have great history and are workhorses specially red 1 and red one mx are still great cameras. and can be found for under 4k. There was guys selling fully loaded red mx with 2 master prime red lenses for 10k what a deal.

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I have 2 red one mx. W ssd its pretty reliable.

But they dont support them.

If it dies on you in the field...thats it.

The joystiq on one of mine fell off and broke.

They wouldnt help.

I had to 3d print it

With that said it has xlr hd sdi...and the image is really pretty

So you get what you pay for.

Just be aware that it may become a 8k brick.

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