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Sony a6300 4k

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3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

In Max´ video A6300 has obviously higher resolution than G7, also details in the shadows instead of mud.

Regarding the shadow detail it looks like a codec issue of the G7 with noise reduction dialed up too much in the profile.

 

Could definitely be a picture profile/settings thing. I'm sure, with tweaking, we could coax a little more resolution and shadow detail out of the G7. However, while the Panasonic has more blocked up shadows, it also has a clear advantage in the highlights. Not only is there more latitude, but it doesn't show any of the hue shifts, bright color ringing, or hard clipping I see in the A6300. Check out the underwater lights in the second example scene. Horrendous performance by the Sony. The Panasonic has much nicer color overall too, struggling less to render the mixed sources naturally. 

With used G7 prices dropping to around $400, I'm struggling to think of reasons not to buy it. No LOG profile I guess, but those things cause more problems than they solve in 8-bit cameras. Image looks acceptable at 6400 and rather good at 3200. 

As to people bashing it for stills...you're full of shit. I'm sorry, but even measurebaters can look at DXO and see that raw performance is less than a stop away from APS-C. There is so much amazing work being shot on M4/3 that no one can claim the camera is their limitation to getting good results. Panasonic's DFD autofocus has also been shown to be faster and more accurate than any other current mirrorless. Time will tell on the A6300, but "it doesn't have PDAF points" is an asinine argument. The last thing to look at are lenses. Last time I checked, the Sony APS-C stable was pretty pitiful. There's like...2 or 3 Zeiss lenses that are pretty cool I guess? Micro Four Thirds, on the other hand, has a gigantic selection of both AF and MF glass, almost all of which are stellar pieces of glass. 

As someone who's shot and edited a couple dozen commercial and portrait shoots with a GH3 and A6000 side by side, there's basically nothing in it. The Sony is higher res, but the M4/3 glass has the edge. The Panny has lower DR/higher noise, but the Sony's 11+7 bit compression makes it a wash. The Sony is smaller and lighter, the Panasonic much better built and better-handling. Neither have great color on Adobe defaults, and benefit greatly from profiling in ACR. The GH3 battery life is enormously better, the A6000 has almost double the burst rate. 

I would never argue that Micro Four Thirds is the best stills platform available, but I do believe it represents the best mix of compromises for most photographers. The system's image quality today is where APS-C was a couple years ago, and I don't recall many people complaining then. In a few more years, it'll be where class-leading APS-C is now. And so on and so on. So as technology marches on and sensors get better and better, I'd rather have the smaller size, better glass, and stronger features of a M4/3 body than a bump in performance less than 1% of shooters would even notice, let alone need.

Some samples to ponder: 

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/featured-mu43-wedding-experience-by-sssyurrr.61628/
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/m43-portraiture-by-livingloud.61610/
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/featured-photographs-from-morocco-by-ggibson.62877/

https://www.mu-43.com/resources/voigtlander-nokton-42-5mm-f-0-95-real-world-review.36/
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/featured-my-portrait-work-with-m43-can-it-hang-with-the-big-boys-by-spatulaboy.58189/

Cheers.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Those highlights on underwater lights (@ 1:31) do look way better on the G7, but the Sony also looks brighter overall (check out the shadowed palm trees next to the tables).  Maybe exposure was slightly different?

 

LowLightComparison_UnderwaterLights.png

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4 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

With used G7 prices dropping to around $400, I'm struggling to think of reasons not to buy it. No LOG profile I guess, but those things cause more problems than they solve in 8-bit cameras. Image looks acceptable at 6400 and rather good at 3200. 

I returned my G7 but it is a very good image/dollar. And it is so freeking light its scary. It weighs nothing. Pretty comfortable to.

Its retail price is down to $420. And everything points to it following the same path as thr G6 did here. Meaning it will cost around $270 before winter. 

Which of course gives it a used value of $200, and thats being extremly generous. Used price today is $300 for mint condition with +1 year warranty.

All this is imo because of a totally over saturated market. There is imo no way all these brands can keep competing like this. Maybe Samsung did the smartest move and just got out. 

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12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If those are indeed direct from the card then S-LOG 3 looks unworkable on the A6300 and the codec is looking like it has the same problems the FS5 had, but worse. Not good.

FW update can fix it, so it could be worse ;)

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I returned my G7 but it is a very good image/dollar. And it is so freeking light its scary. It weighs nothing. Pretty comfortable to.

Its retail price is down to $420. And everything points to it following the same path as thr G6 did here. Meaning it will cost around $270 before winter. 

Which of course gives it a used value of $200, and thats being extremly generous. Used price today is $300 for mint condition with +1 year warranty.

All this is imo because of a totally over saturated market. There is imo no way all these brands can keep competing like this. Maybe Samsung did the smartest move and just got out. 

4K's time as a differentiator on the market is pretty much over when you can shoot it for $270 on a interchangeable lens camera with large sensor.

Only a few years ago we were impressed at the idea of 4K at $4K, something which didn't even exist yet.

I think we're reaching 'peak stuff'

It's going to be very difficult from this point onwards to people to part with what they have, because it's already more than what they need.

To make use of 4K you really need a 105" TV. How many people would find that practical in their living space?

Meanwhile the 'affordable' 4K displays are mostly stuck at 55" or 65" and they have zero content.

I was really surprised Sony didn't go all out with 4K PS4 games that would have sold a TON of UHD sets

I think we should be judging cameras based more on the overall image - dynamic range, colour, features, ergonomics, from now on and if its 1080p, so what. It's just that most of the 1080p cams have been crap so far... still waiting for an Alexa like 2K image. 5D raw is closest perhaps.

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I was hoping that the new pocket would be that 2k alexa. Close, but not right there in terms of versatility. For indie shorts and such it seems perfect but to be used on comerials and so on it looks too filmic actually.

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I returned my G7 but it is a very good image/dollar. And it is so freeking light its scary. It weighs nothing. Pretty comfortable to.

Its retail price is down to $420. And everything points to it following the same path as thr G6 did here. Meaning it will cost around $270 before winter. 

Which of course gives it a used value o $200, and thats being extremly generous. Used price today is $300 for mint condition with +1 year warranty.

All this is imo because of a totally over saturated market. There is imo no way all these brands can keep competing like this. Maybe Samsung did the smartest move and just got out. 

 

Hallo Mattias, that are hells of deals!

What stores are selling G7s for $420 or used ones for $300?

I will buy a G7 there, no sense in waiting!

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12 minutes ago, jagnje said:

I was hoping that the new pocket would be that 2k alexa. Close, but not right there in terms of versatility. For indie shorts and such it seems perfect but to be used on comerials and so on it looks too filmic actually.

Not Super 35mm either unfortunately.

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18 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I was really surprised Sony didn't go all out with 4K PS4 games that would have sold a TON of UHD sets

I'm not, the ps4 has a similar amount of power to a custom gaming PC that costs about £450-£500, and a PC that costs £2000 is considered about right to get 1440p resolutions at a decent frame rate. Next gen though, for sure

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16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think we should be judging cameras based more on the overall image - dynamic range, colour, features, ergonomics, from now on and if its 1080p, so what. It's just that most of the 1080p cams have been crap so far... still waiting for an Alexa like 2K image. 5D raw is closest perhaps.

Definitely. The C100 is the boss among freelancers because of the complete package. 
There are cameras with higher res, wider DR etc but usually not in the same camera. And not in one thats also very complete build and button wise.

Ive mentioned it before, But most big TV Networks and broadcasters are way more interested in color depth and DR over resolution.
Blind tests have showed that people respond more to DR and color than resolution. 

I thought it was weird when 4K became the new "thing". All reviewers etc said "not needed", "not now", etc.
But all of a sudden they changed, like over night. All of a sudden 4K was this incredible feature. While in my opinion it still to this day is nothing more than feature among the others. Dual SD, 4K, Tomato, Tomato.  
I watched one review where the guy said he loved Nikon, always had. But if the next didn't have 4K he would skipp it. And I thought "why?".
I mean the GH4 he was switching to isn't exactly a head turner. Its nice, but he would be trading an afoul lot of things he like for just some 4K.
And for cropping and reframing... yeah thats nice, I do it to sometimes.
But just because there is 4K doesn't mean that its not possible to frame properly from the beginning.

Lots of rambling here. Guess the point is. There are more cameras to choose from than there are people to use them :)


And lets not forget that video features is still not exactly what sells these cameras. The DSLR boom is dead.
Most people have stopped filming and jumped to the next fad hobby. Those of us left have all we need.

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14 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Hallo Mattias, that are hells of deals!

What stores are selling G7s for $420 or used ones for $300?

I will buy a G7 there, no sense in waiting!

All of them. Its the current price in Sweden. 
That used one for 300 is from a guy I met the other week. But honestly, you can get one cheaper in a month or two. The second hand value for mirrorless in Sweden is super low. 

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Well, none of the major electronic stores it seems, they're around the 600~700 USD... I guess you mean specific camera stores? But I don't even see you beloved Scandinavian Photo with those kind of prices.

- oh wait, got to take that back, looks like I've found something close... http://www.fotokungen.com/panasonic/digital-system/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-kamerahus-svarthttp://www.rajalaproshop.se/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-kamerahus-svart.html , I guess I'll need to pay 'em a visit later this month.

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35 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Definitely. The C100 is the boss among freelancers because of the complete package. 
There are cameras with higher res, wider DR etc but usually not in the same camera. And not in one thats also very complete build and button wise.

Ive mentioned it before, But most big TV Networks and broadcasters are way more interested in color depth and DR over resolution.
Blind tests have showed that people respond more to DR and color than resolution. 

I thought it was weird when 4K became the new "thing". All reviewers etc said "not needed", "not now", etc.
But all of a sudden they changed, like over night. All of a sudden 4K was this incredible feature. While in my opinion it still to this day is nothing more than feature among the others. Dual SD, 4K, Tomato, Tomato.  
I watched one review where the guy said he loved Nikon, always had. But if the next didn't have 4K he would skipp it. And I thought "why?".
I mean the GH4 he was switching to isn't exactly a head turner. Its nice, but he would be trading an afoul lot of things he like for just some 4K.
And for cropping and reframing... yeah thats nice, I do it to sometimes.
But just because there is 4K doesn't mean that its not possible to frame properly from the beginning.

Lots of rambling here. Guess the point is. There are more cameras to choose from than there are people to use them :)


And lets not forget that video features is still not exactly what sells these cameras. The DSLR boom is dead.
Most people have stopped filming and jumped to the next fad hobby. Those of us left have all we need.

Main reason for me why 4K was a nice step on cameras like the GH4 and NX1 was it got us away from their poor 1080p images and gave us much nicer looking 2K when downscaled in post plus the freedom to reframe.

Editing performance is still shoddy though even on a high end machine. And I sometimes miss 60p for slow-mo.

Main reason to get the A6300 are what it offers for the price is a lot - S-LOG 2, lots of features, slow-mo, tiny form factor and of course the big one - the advanced AF system for video - SLOG 3 image seems to have issues though AGAIN sadly.

They need to upgrade the codec.

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29 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Definitely. The C100 is the boss among freelancers because of the complete package. 
There are cameras with higher res, wider DR etc but usually not in the same camera. And not in one thats also very complete build and button wise.

Ive mentioned it before, But most big TV Networks and broadcasters are way more interested in color depth and DR over resolution.
Blind tests have showed that people respond more to DR and color than resolution. 

I thought it was weird when 4K became the new "thing". All reviewers etc said "not needed", "not now", etc.
But all of a sudden they changed, like over night. All of a sudden 4K was this incredible feature. While in my opinion it still to this day is nothing more than feature among the others. Dual SD, 4K, Tomato, Tomato.  
I watched one review where the guy said he loved Nikon, always had. But if the next didn't have 4K he would skipp it. And I thought "why?".
I mean the GH4 he was switching to isn't exactly a head turner. Its nice, but he would be trading an afoul lot of things he like for just some 4K.
And for cropping and reframing... yeah thats nice, I do it to sometimes.
But just because there is 4K doesn't mean that its not possible to frame properly from the beginning.

Lots of rambling here. Guess the point is. There are more cameras to choose from than there are people to use them :)


And lets not forget that video features is still not exactly what sells these cameras. The DSLR boom is dead.
Most people have stopped filming and jumped to the next fad hobby. Those of us left have all we need.

Not entierly all true. I worked on a coUple of comerials. The requirements from the client were: blond women, blue sky, 4K. Not a single mention of DR, I'm pretty sure they have no idea what it is. The DP was pissed, because now he had to use a Red instead of his prefered alexa. 

And small clients, who want the latest and greatest videos made for 500€...well they've read online that 4k is really importat right now. They will never knlw the difference if I just send them upscaled 1080p footage, but I will loose clients if they find out.

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The commercial filmmaking world is 99% producing shit. Most clients have no idea what art is. They just want a certain production standard and for efficiency. Turning up with a Samsung badged small consumer camera goes against the grain. This is the main reason RED exists :) - for pros to look professional in front of clients. Clients don't know much at all about images. I have seen what happens when they try to make their own LUTs.

It even happens right at the top. Robert Richardson took his name off World War Z for precisely this reason.

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Exactly. But bigger productions can have red on set, and micro ones can't. Thats why we have gh4, nx1, a7sii...specs are there, but the rest not so much. But it gets you the gig instead of the guy that films with a 5d3...sad but true.

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23 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Well, none of the major electronic stores it seems, they're around the 600~700 USD... I guess you mean specific camera stores? But I don't even see you beloved Scandinavian Photo with those kind of prices.

- oh wait, got to take that back, looks like I've found something close... http://www.fotokungen.com/panasonic/digital-system/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-kamerahus-svarthttp://www.rajalaproshop.se/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-kamerahus-svart.html , I guess I'll need to pay 'em a visit later this month.

Im not a big fan of Scandinavian Photo, don't know what gave you that idea. Just use prisjakt.se, who has the energy to look around.
The price is on three of the biggest retailers, http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=3144178

"600-700 USD"... what a rip off.

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Saw you mention them a couple of times before, I guess together with Japan Photo? I just looked on Yelp to find stores in Stockholm and tried a few hits. I guess I have too much energy. :grimace: Price is still high here in Central and Western Europe. They do run that cashback in the UK, but last time it was double the cashback and it applied to the body only as well, now it's single casback only on kits. So, buying it up north might not be such a bad idea.

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21 minutes ago, jagnje said:

Not entierly all true. I worked on a coUple of comerials. The requirements from the client were: blond women, blue sky, 4K. Not a single mention of DR, I'm pretty sure they have no idea what it is. The DP was pissed, because now he had to use a Red instead of his prefered alexa. 

And small clients, who want the latest and greatest videos made for 500€...well they've read online that 4k is really importat right now. They will never knlw the difference if I just send them upscaled 1080p footage, but I will loose clients if they find out.

I didn't say anything that contardcts that, so not sure whats not to agree on :)
But I get your point. The only solution is to make nice looking stuff so the clients trust you.

Just now, Cinegain said:

Saw you mention them a couple of times before, I guess together with Japan Photo? I just looked on Yelp to find stores in Stockholm and tried a few hits. I guess I have too much energy. :grimace: Price is still high here in Central and Western Europe. They do run that cashback in the UK, but last time it was double the cashback and it applied to the body only as well, now it's single casback only on kits. So, buying it up north might not be such a bad idea.

Japan Photo aren't great either. Go with Cyberphoto or Rajala. Think both will ship internationally. Cyberphotos customer service is great, drop them an email.
(the give you candy as well :) )

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