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Petition for Samsung NX1 hack


kidzrevil
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6 hours ago, Pavel Mašek said:

But RAW image has to be scale down because bitrate would be insane in this case (24x around 30MB = 720MB/s). Maximum write speed of NX1 is 60MB/s (see http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/samsung-nx1/sd-card-comparison/ )

That test is totally outdated. With fw 1.4, NX1 improved SD writing times by a big margin. With a Lexar 2000x UHS-II card, I have a buffer for 35 frames at 15fps, after which it goes up to 5-6fps "forever". Meaning that it writes at about 200-250MB/sec (notice the capital B).

 

This is still too little for 25fps raw of course; but...NX500 implemented raw compression on the fly. I don't know how much this could save, but it's something already. Perhaps we could reach 8-10fps written directly to SD card.

 

NX1 also has USB3 connection. I really don't know if this can be used to connect an external unit, but if so, it could reach 600+ MB/sec, meaning about 20-24fps.

 

But the most likely scenario for raw video is the following: UHD crop (ala NX500). This would greatly reduce each picture size (less than 10MB each) and hence the lexar 2000x could already handle 20-25fps.

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28 minutes ago, derderimmermuedeist said:

Macroblocking is a processing unit in Video formats up to H.264

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroblock 

In H.265 its the Coding tree unit (CTU)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_tree_unit

Of interrest is the relationship Coding efficiency and CTU-Size and increase in the video bit rate (Chapter "Coding efficiency")

?? Your point ? Dont mean to sound combative but I dont understand where you are going with this 

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1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

Lmao I appreciated your tests bro ! Actually going to try playing with the -5 contrast just with 16-235 instead as I feel h.265 works better with it. No macroblocking

Ha, yes, we had some good interaction in that thread. And yes, for h265 you are probably correct. Prores on the shogun seems to care little between 0-255 and 16-235 once you actually grade the files. Sorry for this digression in this thread!

My main point earlier that I may or may not have made, is that increased bitrate will help us, particularly in h265 with things like macroblocking, unfortunately I doubt it will help us with banding (as 220mpbs+ already doesn't seem to get rid of it ala the shogun). while h265 is a very impressive codec, I'd really like to see something come along in the hack that will give us 422 (i really dont think hdmi out is 422 on this camera, but i have no evidence other than the terrible banding that still occurs). with gammadr and -10 contrast the camera is capable of a ton of latitude, it just can't be pieced back together in color without significant banding.

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When people talk about raw video I don't think they imply it at full native resolution of 28Mp, this would be insane. Look at 5Dm3 raw video for example, each frame is at HD resolution with 14bit of color information. So it's not true raw per say, but a downscaled raw instead. If we had video files with 14bit that would be perfect. No need for any kind of s-log tricks, which improve dynamic range but introduces banding and other issues after grading.

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Guys, I am all for hacking this camera but 6.5k RAW footage at 24fps is nothing but a pipe dream, at best it could probably do it for 2 minutes into an external recorder, and I am being optimistic here, it could be possible to actually shoot 6.5k video with 50mbps HEVC.
The buffer lasts pretty long if you try it with JPEG's only at normal quality, now JPEG's are way better than HEVC in quality per frame, but the bitrate is still monstrous.

The best we can hope for is a low bitrate 6.5k mode and 'maybe' 4k raw video. but 1080p and 2k is definitely possible. Also what Magic Lantern does not do is spitting out compressed RAW, that probably could be added seeing how easy Samsung made it compared to other companies regarding hacking it.

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Depending on what I find there could be an option for a 1:1.29 lossless or a higher compression visually lossless hevc. Creating a custom lut for a more red like log seems possible also.

 The firmware seems more of a proof of concept that they left it open to change so many things. And more so to show they can go head to head with the established makers and make something better. Since this thread has garnered more interest I have shifted to put more hours into this dive I am doing.

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6 minutes ago, Chant said:

Depending on what I find there could be an option for a 1:1.29 lossless or a higher compression visually lossless hevc. Creating a custom lut for a more red like log seems possible also.

 The firmware seems more of a proof of concept that they left it open to change so many things. And more so to show they can go head to head with the established makers and make something better. Since this thread has garnered more interest I have shifted to put more hours into this dive I am doing.

When you produce results do not be shy to ask for donations, I think a lot of people are willing to support you financial including myself. 

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When it comes to that point things can be figured out. As I stated, I started this project for my own ideal goals for this camera, I guess its just a plus that more people are interested in expanding what the nx1 can do. The next few weeks will dictate what is possible back end wise. What otto k has also done would be useful. As building a front end like ml would be more user friendly compared to what was built for the gh2 and ptool, and that sort of firmware update system. 

If we could get a list going of what people would like to see it could help focus the work better. Unlike other cameras the firmware is complicated but not near as obfuscated and vastly lacking encryption as other systems. Open source really makes it easy even if the sdk isnt public.

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29 minutes ago, nougat said:
  1. Higher bit rate recording for 4K and 1080p (160 Mbps+)
  2. Higher frame rates (4K/60 fps, 1080p/240 fps)
  3. 2K recording mode and/or 4K crop mode similar to NX500
  4. Ability to turn off noise reduction completely

1,2,3,4 and focus peaking while using external hdmi monitor and manual mode. thanks for being there when samsung bailed on us.

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31 minutes ago, Chant said:

If we could get a list going of what people would like to see it could help focus the work better. Unlike other cameras the firmware is complicated but not near as obfuscated and vastly lacking encryption as other systems. Open source really makes it easy even if the sdk isnt public.

http://***URL removed***/forums/post/56619379

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50 minutes ago, Chant said:

When it comes to that point things can be figured out. As I stated, I started this project for my own ideal goals for this camera, I guess its just a plus that more people are interested in expanding what the nx1 can do. The next few weeks will dictate what is possible back end wise. What otto k has also done would be useful. As building a front end like ml would be more user friendly compared to what was built for the gh2 and ptool, and that sort of firmware update system. 

If we could get a list going of what people would like to see it could help focus the work better. Unlike other cameras the firmware is complicated but not near as obfuscated and vastly lacking encryption as other systems. Open source really makes it easy even if the sdk isnt public.

I am posting the SDK and PDF files I get from Samsung soon as they send it, I have sent them a mail now requesting it as well hoping they will respond soon. 

Again more people should ask and people should look around for people who might have a copy of it because its nowhere to be found on the internet, if its there its rare and I have overlooked it but I searched hard for it, looks like we gotta get it from someone.

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2 hours ago, Chant said:

Depending on what I find there could be an option for a 1:1.29 lossless or a higher compression visually lossless hevc. Creating a custom lut for a more red like log seems possible also.

 The firmware seems more of a proof of concept that they left it open to change so many things. And more so to show they can go head to head with the established makers and make something better. Since this thread has garnered more interest I have shifted to put more hours into this dive I am doing.

If you need anyone to help test im down !!!

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A few points:

USB 3.0 tops out around 350MB/s in real applications, even with the best optimizations.

RAW video just means unprocessed data from the sensor. Pixel binning or line skipping modes are still "true" RAW.

Currently all evidence points to the sensor maxing out at 30fps for a full 16:9 crop. Unless someone has hard evidence to the contrary, we should really assume that they use the same column-parallel CMOS sensor architecture known to be used by Sony, Canon, Aptina, CMOSIS, ON-Semiconductor, Kodak/Truesense, etc. In that case the readout speed is inversely proportional to the number of lines, so the maximum 1080p framerate is ~120fps with only about 910 lines of resolution. Hacking will not change that. Overclocking might be possible, but not by 100%.

And a few questions:

Has anyone actually found the part of the firmware that controls the sensor and video processor during video recording? In particular, has anyone seen what the actual sensor modes are? Also, can anyone confirm if the raw data from the sensor ever appears in a buffer accessible to the CPU?

What interface does the camera app use to record video? Is it libmmf* or something else?

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7 hours ago, nougat said:
  1. Higher bit rate recording for 4K and 1080p (160 Mbps+)
  2. Higher frame rates (4K/60 fps, 1080p/240 fps)
  3. 2K recording mode and/or 4K crop mode similar to NX500
  4. Ability to turn off noise reduction completely

Absolutely agree with this one,
1. Most important - Higher bit rates is the thing we all need the most. Lets get rid of macroblocking and all sorts of problem.
2. Turn off the NoiseReduction - in my mind, the NR must slow eat a big chunk of processing power. If turned off, this power can be used elswhere.
3. 10 bit or 12RAW - I mean, honestly. You cant argue with this one.. 
4. Higher frame rates - is what makes the camera more appealing to us, but honestly, not more usable. Just makes it a better deal
5. Trying to disable crop 4K on NX500 and applieing 1 to 4 to NX500. That could make the camera more appealing to everybody. (not sure if we established already this is not possible?)

PS: Chant, as other stated, if you are dedicated to this task.. As other stated, dont be shy to ask for compensation or think of crowdfunding from us, if you plan to break in the camera and make it whole new better piece of tech.

 

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The list of additions are interesting, I have to admit the focus will be on video and all other aspects will be secondary.

Found a few things. DRIMe-V clock rate seems to be 200mhz. And that seems.. low. Im expecting an NX1 in the next few weeks, so that is one thing I will test. May have to do some heat dissipation help, but from other things I have found in the fw that should be able to be pushed. If things are on the level of the sony a7(s) line up with their over heating issues I think a tad below that will suffice. The upper limit should be 700mhz+ But erring on the safe side will always be more logical.

**Edit** In additon to that finding, I will have to track the changes to see if they upped the clock rate in the later fw. I am working in the first revision as that has the largest file size, so I assumed it would have the most debug changes from the 1.0 layout, with the other firmwares focusing more on updates and camera usability changes.**

I wasnt intending to work on this tonight as I have some graphic design work I need to do, but the more I look, the juicer things get!

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