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The Panasonic GH3 is here


Andrew Reid

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@markm Yep...We definitely need to learn a lot more. So far there have been some really great things, but I feel a lot of reservation about buying this camera. I havent seen anything (yet) that bea

[quote name='bradleyg5' timestamp='1347889688' post='18338'] I'm still not getting it, my 5dII with Alexs hack can record above 50mbit/sec h.264, so that's hardly game changing. All-I is an inefficie

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1348061545' post='18582'] Remember that, properly lit, one seldom had any banding issues with the GH2. The Bloom film [i]was[/i] properly lit. After reading [url="http:/

looks like that aliasing is product of aa filter ...
even from resized photos on panasonic site we can see there is more resolution ...
looks like that they go olympus route ...
very light aa filter for max photo resolution but that can effect video ...
similar as BMC (no aa filter ) image is cleaner (less moire and aliasing) in native resolution RAW than resized 1080p prores ...
best way would be option to record video in native resolution after pixel binning 2304x1296 and let as do proper resizing in postproduction ....
this is only my speculation i cant be 100% certain ...
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Lets hope & keep our fingers crossed Panny are listening to the video/film market, I'm dying to get rid of my canon. I'm holding off, but I don't see any other direction to head. I like what BMD are doing, we need more boutique companies like this to cater for the video/film niche market.

Then there's this:

[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]An interesting news comes via[/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/it-medien/photokina-panasonic-plant-den-strategiewechsel/7142980.html"] Handelsblatt[/url][color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3] ([/size][/font][/color][url="http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Funternehmen%2Fit-medien%2Fphotokina-panasonic-plant-den-strategiewechsel%2F7142980.html"]Translation here[/url][color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3] / via [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blog/2012/09/panasonic-stategy/"]SKF[/url][color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]). They talked with Mr. Izumi Tomozawa from Panasonic and he said:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]- Unlike the cellular and TV market the Camera market has still a profit margin. But the profit margin is in the high end amateur and Semi-PRO market (not on very consumer level cameras).[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]- The old Panasonic strategy was to focus on the amateur market. But this is about to change. We want to go on the high end amateur (or semipro) market where the margins are higher.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]- The [/size][/font][/color][url="http://go.redirectingat.com/?id=19445X767302&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FDMC-GH3KBODY-16-05-Camera-3-Inch-OLED%2Fdp%2FB009B0WREM"]GH3[/url][color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3] is considered by Panasonic as the first semi-pro m43 camera.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]I guess the GX2 will be the next semi-pro camera to come!!![/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]This is what I want to hear, hopefully they know what the Semi-Pro market is :-)[/size][/font][/color]
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Remember that, properly lit, one seldom had any banding issues with the GH2. The Bloom film [i]was[/i] properly lit. After reading [url="http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh3/still_image_quality.html"]this[/url] (scroll down a bit), it seems this thing is not yet in the can with the ominous 'HDR'. Looks as if it is a feature for stills only, and the iPhone 4 has a similar function (it differs from HDR developing in Photoshop insofar as it [i]may[/i] be also possible for moving objects or handheld camera, if not, if I have to use a tripod for landscapes or the like, I do much better with the GH2's auto bracket and [i]seven[/i] 'consecutive' photos!). Also, the clip with the cat on the chair didn't look as if it had HDR, it looked definitely LDR. After all the minor and major disappointments, that we work hard to get used to, this would for me be the last straw. Still banding? OMG.
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[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1348061545' post='18582']
Remember that, properly lit, one seldom had any banding issues with the GH2. The Bloom film [i]was[/i] properly lit. After reading [url="http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh3/still_image_quality.html"]this[/url] (scroll down a bit), it seems this thing is not yet in the can with the ominous 'HDR'. Looks as if it is a feature for stills only, and the iPhone 4 has a similar function (it differs from HDR developing in Photoshop insofar as it [i]may[/i] be also possible for moving objects or handheld camera, if not, if I have to use a tripod for landscapes or the like, I do much better with the GH2's auto bracket and [i]seven[/i] 'consecutive' photos!). Also, the clip with the cat on the chair didn't look as if it had HDR, it looked definitely LDR. After all the minor and major disappointments, that we work hard to get used to, this would for me be the last straw. Still banding? OMG.
[/quote]

I think that HDR video is something that will be reserved for the high-end niche (i.e. RED One MX) at least for a while. But with moire and aliasing already back in a big way with the GH3, I agree, banding would kill this camera for me. I'm leaning more and more towards not getting a new camera this cycle. I have not been floored by anything I have seen, including the BMCC MFT.
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Nikon D600:
+ video looks good so far
+ reasonable price
+ many lenses to choose from
+ better photos
- the mirror. I like to have an EVF, so a Zacuto or something would have to be added, more expensive, more heavy, not really run&gun
- until now, there always was heavy aliasing with the Nikon VDSLRs, maybe fixed to some extend
- until now, the ISO problems of the Nikons were a no-go

BMCC
+ you know
- a much higher price, if you take into account all the rig stuff that needs to be added
- incredibly cumbersome. Not a working camera at all, just a dumb brick with some opportunities
- raw. Raw is the easiest thing to implement in a camera, because it spares the manufactorers the need for an intelligent processor. The client is left with the task to develop some acceptable image (with the aid of DaVinci) and is lured into the delusion that his grading skills will top those of the top engineers. It sounds promising for people who believe that by being more flexible in grading they will get a special kick. For those who believe that the aesthetics of an image should be secondary to the need of the story, this sounds not so promising.

GH3
- almost 5D in size
- a lot of foul compromises (although multi aspect functionality of the sensor may be added by later FW)
+ for the MFT community only: If you already own the lenses ...

Sigh.
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Wow, so RAW is a negative, and not for those who value story above aesthetics?

Okay then.

Might as well go shoot the best story in the world on an iPad. Not much post flexibility...but the lack of options will free you up creatively!

They should start listing this 'feature' on the box.
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[quote name='Chrad' timestamp='1348067916' post='18597']Might as well go shoot the best story in the world on an iPad. Not much post flexibility...but the lack of options will free you up creatively!
[/quote]

Just wait, until all the awfully degraded BMCC shots will be on vimeo. No doubt all the other hobby colorists will join with their 'likes'. If just [i]one[/i] good story that needed raw grading will be among them (not just attention-hungry demo shots from amateurs who need to show off their unique feature), you won the bet ...
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According to this video -

[url="http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-us-manager-interview-focus-peaking-may-come-via-fw-update/"]http://www.43rumors....-via-fw-update/[/url]

the Panasonic GH3 guys say "right now I don't believe we have focus peaking in it - it wasn't part of the design".

See 34:40.
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[quote name='Mirrorkisser' timestamp='1347893126' post='18346']
One other thing this camera prooves: You dont need 150mbs for an all intra codec. I wonder what impact that has on the developement of settings/patches for the gh2. A very good all intra setting below 100mbs would be awesome.
[/quote]

Not sure how useful it will prove to be, but as an exercise @driftwood quickly mapped the matrix used in the 72 mbps ALL-I on the GH3 footage so far to the GH2 in 24L (similar bitrate) and a higher bitrate (24H). There were several issues in the process (the 8x8 matrices from the GH3 are apparently more efficient and unavailable on the GH2 from his comments) and I would still suggest taking advantage of the settings more tailored to the GH2, but here is the link.

Note that the other settings (720P, etc.) have NOT been patterned off the GH3 and have NOT been optimized.

[url="http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/88806#Comment_88806"]http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/88806#Comment_88806[/url]
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[quote name='Per Lichtman' timestamp='1348793995' post='19126']
Not sure how useful it will prove to be, but as an exercise @driftwood quickly mapped the matrix used in the 72 mbps ALL-I on the GH3 footage so far to the GH2 in 24L (similar bitrate) and a higher bitrate (24H). There were several issues in the process (the 8x8 matrices from the GH3 are apparently more efficient and unavailable on the GH2 from his comments) and I would still suggest taking advantage of the settings more tailored to the GH2, but here is the link.

Note that the other settings (720P, etc.) have NOT been patterned off the GH3 and have NOT been optimized.

[url="http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/88806#Comment_88806"]http://personal-view...6#Comment_88806[/url]
[/quote]

I saw it too, but since we also get into the 140mbs bitrates, i doubt it adds anything over sedna, quantum 9b etc. I think for now i will stick with flowmotion. When i want really a soft image go to valkyrie and when i dont fear any space issues and want a good allround intra, will go to sedna.

I find it difficult anyway to distinguish between gop3 and intra. gop6 i can recognise with a lots of camera movement in very detailed areas. valkyrie would really be da bomb, if it would not feature intra-like bitrates...
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Yeah i loaded that Gh3 emulator patch up last night. My first thoughts are, it's fairly clean in the shadow transitions... But it's funny how much of an effect Placebo can have after trying the other 97 patches out there... Lol.

I wanna try it out in the daylight & see if it offers anything better than Flowmotion.. On my latest vid, When i converted my clips in 5DtoRGB, I was getting bitrates down by the stock firmware bitrates... Which didn't look terrible, but come on... That's low. For a firmware that tops out just above 100mbps, even in a scene with a field, lots of grass, and a horizon of trees blowing in the wind i managed 68mbps at the top.

Apparently they're throwing money around over there at Personal View to get a GH3 hacked. We'll see. I wanna know what's gonna be fixed on the final firmware, and what a hack would actually improve. 176mbps bitrates are cool, if I wanna blow my footage up 400% and see what they're doing... I wanna see what this "High Dynamic Range" sensor is doing differently now, or if they'll budge on the HDMI out for 4:2:2? Since they're not protecting anything at the moment, why not? This is their curren flagship. The D800 has 4:2:2, the Sony A99 has it, we won't talk about Canon... Lol.
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[quote name='Germy1979' timestamp='1348827358' post='19137']
Yeah i loaded that Gh3 emulator patch up last night. My first thoughts are, it's fairly clean in the shadow transitions... But it's funny how much of an effect Placebo can have after trying the other 97 patches out there... Lol.
[/quote]

I agree, most things are just visible in frame to frame comparision. Or with lots of movement and many many details.

As far as i understood high dynamic range was reserved for still mode only?!

I stick with my gh2 for the time being. I dont see anything in the up to 2000$ price range that really gives me that super improvement. It also remains to be seen for how long it will take until the gh3 is hacked and good settings are made available.

Were you referring to the new gh3 emulating setting with your bitrates germy?
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[quote name='Mirrorkisser' timestamp='1348829212' post='19138']


I agree, most things are just visible in frame to frame comparision. Or with lots of movement and many many details.

As far as i understood high dynamic range was reserved for still mode only?!

I stick with my gh2 for the time being. I dont see anything in the up to 2000$ price range that really gives me that super improvement. It also remains to be seen for how long it will take until the gh3 is hacked and good settings are made available.

Were you referring to the new gh3 emulating setting with your bitrates germy?
[/quote]

Yeah, the GH3 patch:) in a room with one dim ceiling fan light... Camera usually goes apesh-t when i crank the iso. It's good until about 1600 iso, then here comes the horizontal weirdness noise...

It seemed to handle banding pretty well from what i could tell... But man...
That gamma shift drives me crazy when you hit record.. I swear if they only fix one thing in the GH3, let it be that.
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A great Panasonic interview. Some good discussions on focus peaking and sensor readout.


[url="http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/28/qa-with-panasonic-the-story-behind-the-new-gh3-and-compact-system-tech"]http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/28/qa-with-panasonic-the-story-behind-the-new-gh3-and-compact-system-tech[/url]
"At this moment we don't have focus peaking, but 80% or 90% of users are asking for it. If we can successfully negotiate with the engineers, it will be possible. Maybe with a firmware upgrade, we could add this. We understand from the technical division in Japan that the peaking function just depends on software improvements

Yes, it's not possible to read out the whole array at 60p. So this means we have to do some pixel combining. We combine 2 x 2 pixels on the sensor, so that makes just one quarter the data that we have to read out. This makes it possible to read out at 60p. Then we combine again to get the 2 megapixel video image."
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This little bit I find fascinating:

[quote name='hoodlum' timestamp='1348840585' post='19143']Yes, it's not possible to read out the whole array at 60p. So this means we have to do some pixel combining. We combine 2 x 2 pixels on the sensor, so that makes just one quarter the data that we have to read out. This makes it possible to read out at 60p. Then we combine again to get the 2 megapixel video image."[/quote]

So theoretically, this means that they are reducing a 16 MP image down to a 4 MP image (4K) from the sensor at 60 fps and then reducing it again in order to get 2k... So theoretically, if they wanted to make it possible, they could get a 4K stream at 60 fps. Of course, the issue then is how to get a 4k uncompressed stream onto an SD card. Or even 4K uncompressed. Yeah right, you can't. So you have to scale it down again to 2k and then compress it. :-( However, if this theory is correct, it could be possible to pass the 4k stream to the HDMI output before it gets compressed. I mean, they are already saying the 2K image from HDMI is uncompress so way not pass the 4K to the HDMI before it gets scaled and compressed?

Just a thought.
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