herein2020

On 12/12/2022 at 5:44 AM, Grimor said:

Another year, I return with my traditional police Christmas video. This year a short film of a thief who climbs the walls dressed as Santa Claus, to camouflage himself as the popular Christmas decoration. Remember that it is a video that we make in which each roll is interpreted by policemen, not actors, and that the technical section this time is made up of some more members of the squad, where only 2 of us have audiovisual knowledge.

I hope it makes you laugh at least a small part of what we have laughed shooting it.

 

A greeting to all, and especially to Andrew.

 

Awesome production, it truly had all the feel of the start of a Hollywood Christmas movie. Even more impressive considering the crew you were working with.

@kaylee that is pretty incredible, I've never even heard of something like that, I had to reread your post just to figure out what I was looking at.

It sounds like this is the Christmas thread so here is my contribution; much less exciting than both of yours but it fits with the Christmas spirit 😀 For the following video I used the Canon C70 as the A cam (wide shot) and the Canon R7 for the closeups. The C70 was shooting 12bit raw, with the Canon EF 24-105mm and the speedbooster. The Canon R7 was set to compressed IPB, 4KFine with the Canon RF 70-200mm F2.8.

Both cameras were set to CLOG3 Cinema Gamut, post processed in DR and color graded using DR's managed color. The opening detail shots were shot with the Canon R5 since I had already set up the R7 and C70 on their tripods.

On 12/12/2022 at 11:58 AM, Snowfun said:

I’m a fan of Kessler stuff. Yes, it’s relatively expensive (possibly stupidly so) but it’s rugged, does exactly what it’s told and has more bolt holes in convenient places than I would ever need. The kessler quick release plates are Arca compatible.

https://kesslercrane.com/products/kwik-release-receiver-only-mg1001

I have acquired a silly amount of Kessler stuff over the years so as I say I am a bit of a fan. But it’s possibly not a direct alternative to the ones you mention. 

Wow, $160 for a single release plate?? I wouldn't have to worry about camera gear there would be nothing left over to buy any after buying those. Between multiple cameras, tripods, sliders, gimbals, etc......I probably have over 20 release plates mounted to various things.

I personally am a big fan of Smallrig, anything they make I buy without hesitation. I use their Manfrotto plates for all of my gear. Big, bulky, uncomfortable to hold, but rock solid.

On 12/9/2022 at 7:06 PM, ntblowz said:

 

Who would have thought R7 actually have more DR than R6 II on video mode?

The R5 is definitely the best investment I've done so far, 4K50P runs all day without overheating after the last update, and the few cam that does hdmi + internal recording + internal monitor display on.

That is pretty surprising, I think the difference is so minor though that only a side-by-side comparison would reveal it like the one done in this video. 

I do wonder though if the R6II has dual native ISO. I understand that at the R7's price point it is unrealistic to expect it, but I would think the R6II would have it.

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

LOL I assume I can't resist to that 8K60p in such small form factor but I'm still all ears! :- )

I shot 8K30FPS once with the R5 for a few seconds, just to see if my editing workstation could edit the files. Since they were raw files it was actually easier to edit than any of the compressed formats. Haven't shot at that resolution since. 4K60FPS is plenty for me.

On 12/10/2022 at 7:43 AM, Emanuel said:

Something funny is the fact I only see a triple advantage for R5C coming from P4K...

Higher resolution for extracting stills towards large format printing on wider hybrid route and media convergence, as well faster frame rates and competent AF to end the triad.

 

Other than that, RX30 size seems perfect sized instead, while R5C can form another brick as big as P4K...

https://camerasize.com/compare/#782,886

...imagine it with the external power (minimal wedding ) rig... : D

 

 

Haha, it really sounds like you've already made up your mind for the R5C, none of us talking about what we don't like about it will change your mind 😀. I ended up feeling that way about the C70 and R7 and ended up with both of them....and they are both perfect for what I need so I think only you can answer if the R5C is a good fit for you.

12 hours ago, Emanuel said:

It's exactly my feeling on R5C : ) You need inexpensive external power to 8K60p anyway, no other hybrid camera will offer the same (you wrote "slow photo/video switching"?), go figure on this price range, DR @ R5 level fits the bill and IBIS is NOT actually the wishful thinking people dream all about.

I'd rather have a builky circa 150 grams more in hands than to a fresh 2nd unit to replace my limited hot brick no dust sucker fan will carry me closer... Something I like though, brings the wallet three times lighter, impossible to complain on that one ;- )

The R5C has to reboot to go from photo mode to video mode, the whole process takes about 8-10s. It doesn't sound like a big deal, and I didn't think it was when I read about it, but now that I am shooting with the R7 for both photo and video at events its a bigger deal than I thought. Its hard enough getting people to stand still or redo a pose long enough to get their pics taken, let alone waiting for a camera to reboot to start filming video or vice versa. 

11 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

It's my understanding that the S1H/R5C/FX3 fans aren't blowing into the interior of the camera bodies, directly onto the PCB: basically they blow across the outside of the rear wall of the camera body, which is mostly a heatsink, with its interior face connected to the PCB. So I don't see how they could introduce dust problems to those cameras, as the interior is still sealed (outside of the lens mount of course).

Try shooting with a camera with a fan on a windy day on a sandy beach a few times and you will quickly find out exactly why those fans are a problem. The dust and sand might not get onto the actual sensor but they certainly aren't weather sealed and fans get louder as they get dirtier which is clearly audible when recording audio. If enough sand gets in there you need to send it in to get professionally cleaned or even to get the fan replaced.

There is no way I would shoot with my C70 on the beach, TBH I don't like shooting with any camera on the beach due to the sand.

6 hours ago, ntblowz said:

I am actually not that enthusiastic on R5C after using it 6 months later... the C70 got a lot more use nowadays, and sometimes if we are out shooting remotely R5 get picked over R5c because of battery and weather sealing against all weather and condition.  We got a tiny sand stuck on the on switch of C70 which we have to send in to fix when we did a shoot on the dune, the R5 have no problem whatsoever.

So R5C is mostly a tripod camera with usb power adapter connect to the main for us nowadays beside acting as still cam.  My friend also use R5C as tripod camera with v mount battery while he roam around on his C70 too.

I think your post is the first time I've seen any feedback on this forum from someone who actually owns one. Canon definitely built a monstrocity with the R5C, I wonder how well they are selling.

7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Yup, reason why I cannot be so enthusiastic other than with the only single Canon hybrid to actually impress me: R5C ; )

The rumoured R5II to be announced soon according to the usual suspects doesn't convince me either:

The same bet for RX3/RX30 series with the internal fan design.

Exactly because of the introduction of decent overheating management or it's the chaos then.

The R5C had way too many downsides for me (bulky, terrible battery life, slow photo/video switching, fan that can pull in dust, no IBIS, same DR as R5, etc).

The R7 so far is the only Canon hybrid to impress me. It is the closest thing to my Panasonic S5 that I've owned since the S5 except it adds great AF and effortless CLOG3 matching with the C70. On paper it really doesn't seem that impressive but it is one of the ones that far exceed its paper specs when you start using it in the real world. 

After watching this video I am still thoroughly unconvinced that Canon has solved their overheating problem with the R6II. Yes it did better than the R6 but that's not saying much. The R6II overheated at 4K60FPS in 40min with ambient temps at only 70F. 

For the brief time I owned the R6 (3 days), it was shutting off around the 9min mark while just shooting a few video clips, scrolling through the menus, and taking a few pictures; and that wasn't even in direct sunlight or one of the hotter days here.

I live in one of the hottest most humid states in the USA, no way would it last 40min at 98F and 100% humidity. I have managed to get an overheat warning with a C200 and the fan set on high while filming, so heat management is probably more important to me than to people who live in a colder climate.

The R7 on the other hand has never gone past 3bars for me even when shooting in 105F degree temps with a mixture of 4K Fine, 4K 60FPS, and some photos/menu settings thrown in.  The C70 also has never given me an overheating warning.  So at the end of the day the R6II does have better specs in every area than the R7, but for where I live and the type of work I do, I will take a crop and line skipping any day vs a camera that overheats. I think the smaller sensor of the C70 and R7 really pay off when it comes to heat management.

Interestingly enough, I have a diehard Sony shooter friend who lives nearby and she just got the A7IV and she said it overheated in the middle of a wedding within a month of her owning it; so its definitely not just Canon with this problem. BTW, that wasn't even the hottest month here, no idea what she is going to do for next summer.

On 11/23/2022 at 6:46 PM, utisz said:

Hello,

do you have any idea what is causing that teribble jitter of antialising in my footage that I recorded with my C70?
Is the digital stabilization which is messing up my clip or something else?

Thanks very much for sharing your expertise on this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T9DeIdrt7t61vzGiP5h1h8HA0jZ1aPuY/view?usp=share_link

Mine does not do that with digital IS on or off in XFAVC or RAW. I would open a ticket with Canon. Are you using native lenses, lens adapters, speedbooster, lens with IS?

After seeing your video I tested my C70 on a tripod with the Canon speedbooster, Sigma EF mount 50mm F1.8 and with digital IS on and off. I also tested it in XFAVC and then switched to Cinema Raw LT......there was absolutely no movement in the image.

If you are using a lens with IS I would try turning off the lens IS, also if you are using a 3rd party lens adapter maybe try using the native mount or a Canon adapter. When you turn off digital IS does it fix the issue? Are you sure there are no micro vibrations coming from somewhere like the floor that the tripod is sitting on?

On 8/27/2022 at 5:05 PM, ntblowz said:

Oops it was 4k fine mode he tested, R5 last longer than R7 on video overheating, but chew battery faster.

 

 

I know there's tons of tests out there and each one will reach some conclusion; but I also know I personally own both cameras and for me and the type of content that I shoot and the temperatures that I shoot in, the R5 overheated for me while shooting mostly photos with a few video clips here and there when the ambient temps were around 86F and 70% humidity whereas the R7 has never given me the overheating warning even when shooting in ambient temps of around 100F and the humidity was around 10%. 

The R5 was on FW version 1.5 and I haven't shot any video clips after upgrading to FW 1.6 since the R7 is now my go to hybrid camera. Another annoying problem with the R5 is that it still has the 30min record limit. I have to believe that Canon will remove that limit soon, but until it happens, I will just remain in disbelief that they removed it from the R6II, R7, and R3 but have yet to do so (if they ever will) for the R6 and R5....and we are talking years after Panasonic and Sony removed theirs.

As far as DR and IQ, I believe it would be very difficult to tell the difference between the R5, R6, R6II, and R7 in real world shooting (not pixel peeping). Even the R7's line skipped 4K60FPS is more than sufficient for social media content. I've also gained a new appreciation for crop sensors since owning the R7. The extra reach it gives me with the 24-105, 70-200, and even the 24-70 took a little getting used to but its a real treat to work with now.

I think the two main limitations that the R7 has is the fact that it does not have a dual native ISO so it can't compete with the R5 for lowlight and that line skipped 4K60FPS is definitely noticeable in the pixel peeping comparisons.

On 11/10/2022 at 1:05 AM, MrSMW said:

Great write up. I almost want an R7 as a result and may add it to my ‘Camera Crisis’ list 😗

It would only be worth it if you were all in on Canon like I am. It still needs Canon lenses which add up to more than the body itself. 

19 hours ago, Django said:

Eye-AF should work ok, it does on my R6 with adapted EF lenses. The new Canon 709 is a modified version of the popular WideDR profile with better highlight curve and added contrast. Perfect for fast turnaround projects imo. ALL-I is nice when you want ultimate compressed quality, difference is noticeable in water scenes and motion. Bigger files for sure but easier to edit. 

I think its just nice to see updates with added new features. Not something Canon is known for. I'm assuming the FX30 and its aggressive price point is probably prompting Canon to do so. Competition is good for us customers. C70 keeps getting better!

They should put out a C50 in a R6/R7 body with full C70 video features under $3K.

I agree 100% if it weren't for Sony all we would have right now is the 1DXIII and a 5DV from Canon. 

I will be surprised if they release a C50 at least anytime soon. They already released an R5C, there are rumors the R7 might get the same treatment next year, haven't really heard anything about the R6 and haven't heard anything about a C50 in awhile. I think if they were going to release a C50 they would not have released the R5C. If anything, the R6II is already a C50 except it has IBIS, an electronic level, better AF, and can take pictures as well. The only thing it is missing is some of the video tools from the Cinema OS, XFAVC, internal Cinema Raw LT, and of course a fan.

On 11/14/2022 at 4:15 AM, Johannes said:

Great article about the mirrorless hype.

I want to add my experience with the R7, which always produces blurry photos when the shutter is in mechanical mode no matter what lens is used.

It disappears when i switch to full electronic shutter or electronic 1. Curtain, 2nd. curtain mechanical.

Now the fotos are brillant and top.

Nevertheless this should not happen and i already discuss that with canon.

That is really strange, I only use mechanical shutter, have never even tried electronic shutter and my R7 doesn't have that problem. If it is not too late to return it I would try that route vs dealing with a repair.

4 hours ago, Django said:

New firmware update bringing more ALL-I options, Eye-AF & new Canon 709 profile:

@herein2020 Sadly still no (vertical) aspect ratio markers, I'm sure that would have been easy and very handy to have 

Very nice, the AF definitely feels light years behind the R7 and R5. Of course, I use adapted EF lenses and a speedbooster so it remains to be seen how well the eye AF works in that situation. None of the other new features interests me, I always use CLOG2 or CLOG3 so I don't care about the new color profile and I have never cared about ALL-I. ALL-I has always seemed like a massive increase in storage requirements without any visible increase in quality.

The C70 has the custom aspect ratio framing guides but it has a bug in the FW that prevents you from setting custom aspect ratios that aren't built in. You can pick from the preset ones, but none of the presets include the 4:5 ratio. The R5, R7, and my drones don't have it either so I've gotten pretty used to just keeping the main subject near the center of the screen for video.

For photos though, the aspect ratio guides are far more useful because with photography if you want to shoot landscape but also ensure it will work for both social media the original composition it's guesswork when it comes to how much will be cropped for social media which is why I hope they add this feature to the R5 and R7.

@gt3rs @Django @kye I am cautiously optimistic that I might have found a fix for my problem.  Version 1.5 of the FW added a new option: "Suppress lower frame rate" to the display performance menu. This Reddit thread was the first time I had seen that mentioned. I dug through all of the menus when I first set up the camera but did not know they had added this option with FW 1.5. Of course, this thread says it affects AF so I guess I will need to wait and see which is worse.

When I am using flashes for runway shows and studio work it is low light until the flashes go off. It is possible that the issue described in the referenced Reddit thread was my problem. The lag was so significant that I just didn't see how I would be able to estimate movement that far in advance, but now it makes sense why it is affecting me so much; the times I need the most precision are with flashes and specifically in lowlight which happens to be the exact same time the R5's EVF is performing the worst. I checked the R7 and it has this option even with its current FW 1.0. The R6 probably also has this option and the R6II will probably ship with this on day one like the R7 did. 

This option seems to come with a lot of caveats as per Canon's website. I can definitely now say without a doubt that my 5DIV was better in this situation than the R5 has been so far. So basically, until you combine low light (EVF slows down), with flashes (no burst mode options due to flash recycle speeds), with a need for precision (fashion shows, ballerina), you won't see this issue. Ironically that's exactly the scenario I shoot quite often.

5 hours ago, kye said:

I think it's highly dependent on the situation.

This article details the process to get the below shot - apparently these birds dive at around 25mph and even when using 10fps burst mode on a D4 most frames didn't even include the bird at all so it took about 720,000 photos to get a perfect one:

In terms of if it matters or not, I find that in my own personal work my experience of shooting is highly dependent on if I feel that I'm getting footage I like.  That might be different if I was merely trying to please a client in order to put food on the table and new lenses in the collection, but who knows - we're all different and keeping up morale and creativity is a personal thing.

That's an incredible shot and even more interesting backstory. 4200hrs and 720K photos.  I am definitely not shooting anything that requires that kind of dedication or precision.  For me its really just a matter of being my own worst critic, even though it is for a client shoot, I still know when I am not getting the shots I was getting with an OVF.

4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Really not sure why you cannot do it with an EVF..... but people are different so fair enough. Then you should buy a used 1Dx III until you find one. 

I'm still a bit puzzled as is mentioned the strobe example, where you are in single shoot mode so in the right settings R3 and R5 both runs at 120 fps refresh, now the R3 can maintain this even at 30 fps making is blackout free but the lag is the same so in a single shoot there are no difference.
Btw there is another lag that is a shutter lag that is a different story, and this is 83ms in machinal and 50ms in ES for the R5, 5IV is 58ms (plus 86ms blackout) and R3 is 20ms in ES.

Some more examples where timing is key with strobes but if you do it a lot you will notice as your brain will start to anticipate the "lag"

Now these are definitely great examples of where timing was key and where you couldn't use burst mode to create the shot due to the flash recycle limitations.  Maybe it is like you and @kye are saying; I only have a few thousand images with the R5 so far and most of them don't require precision or timing so it might just be a matter of getting used to it. 

Shutter lag didn't even cross my mind, it could be a combination of EVF and shutter lag for my R5. Or it is still possible my R5 simply has more lag than it is supposed to; my brief R7 tests show a big improvement. CPS didn't seem to have an official test for this, in the ticket notes all they said was that they compared it to another R5.....no help at all if the second R5 they compared it to had the same problem.

I definitely don't need a 1DXIII for the things I shoot, my 5DIV was more than adequate for everything I threw at it.

12 hours ago, Django said:

Your issue prompted me to investigate on my end so I popped on my Speedlite flash last night on the R6 having my nephew around and tried to catch random split second movements and to my surprise I found it was pretty easy to nail shots. I also couldn't notice any significant lag from the EVF when set to smooth. So I don't know if its a user case thing,  if R5 and its 45MP somehow increases the lag, if you got a lemon or wether ballerinas are just much harder to shoot than an 8 year-old (I'd assume so!) but for my expectations the R6 works just fine even for flash photography.

Since you've also got an R7 have you noticed any difference concerning EVF lag with your R5? 

I tested with the R7 after you mentioned it and it does seem to be much better than the R5 but until a challenging shoot I won't really know for sure. To see the latency, you would need to specifically test for it. A good test would be to attempt to film someone throwing a ball in the air directly in front of them with the lens set to around 50mm while standing close enough to frame just their chest and their chin and try to capture the ball right as it leaves their hand and is midway in their chest but before it is out of frame. 

Or if you are filming a kid running around specifically try to capture when their right or left foot just touches the ground but before the heel of their foot touches the ground. 

In the ball scenario the ball will probably be out of the frame in real life but still show in the EVF and in the kid scenario the ball of their foot will probably be on the ground while the EVF still shows their heel in the air. Both of these would be easy to do with an OVF.

5 hours ago, gt3rs said:

I also never had a problem with lag on R5 and strobes, the only thing I need is to disable exposure simulation as it would be all black in scenarios like this one

Even a jumping horse with strobes would be easy enough with my current R5 or R7.  It is when you are focusing on something very specific; a specific detail that you know is there in the EVF but does not show up in the final image that is gets frustrating. 

I notice it most at runway shows, where I miss the peak of a hair toss, a split second over the shoulder look, a heel that hasn't lifted back off the ground yet, etc.  The ballerina was a great example. In the EVF her legs would be perfectly straight, the hair would be at the perfect angle, she would be at the peak of the jump with perfect form; but in the captured image the hair would have fallen a bit, the knees are bent, she is already starting her descent back to the ground.  With an OVF capturing those moments would have been effortless.

Like I mentioned, only I will know what I wanted to capture vs what ended up on the memory card, but to me that's enough to matter.

9 minutes ago, kaylee said:

thanks a lot guys! ive clearly got some research to do...

forgive me, im new to doing audio by myself. i know a lil about post audio, but not much.

@IronFilm i want something super flexible for this little doc project im doing, something where i could use one lav, shooting it myself with different cameras, over a period of time.

its about my friend who is an artist. ideally id like something i could carry with me, so if we were just chatting at her kitchen table i could get it out and shoot a clip with my phone without planning anything

how would i do that in said situation? would i need headphones, or....? talk to me like im 4 years old lol

 For something that simple you are probably going to want to look at phone bluetooth lav mics. I don't know anything about them but that's where I would start then read the reviews and watch a few YT videos to pick the best one.

On 11/8/2022 at 12:21 AM, kaylee said:

does this thing suck? is it any good? halp

https://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-10L-Recorder-Lavalier-Microphone/dp/B01LZ7UN44/ref=asc_df_B01LZ7UN44/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312151212938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15263891558806619885&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031501&hvtargid=pla-451845228657&ref=&adgrpid=65054436434&th=1

I have one of these and I only use it as a secondary mic for weddings. I mic the groom and use a Sennheiser wireless transmitter to the XLR input on my A cam, then I wire a second mic using this Tascam. If the wireless signal drops for some reason I still have a safety track, and the Tascam is set to record a primary track and safety track at -6dB below the first track.

I then add a 3rd recorder to the DJ's or venue mic via an elastic band. Long story short, as @IronFilm stated, there's no way I would trust this or any other setup where I had no way to monitor the audio. However, if you are filming something like a wedding where you only get one chance, then the Tascam is a good backup plan if and only if you also have a primary that you can monitor.

I have heard good things about the Rode Wireless Go II, a friend of mine uses them for all of her weddings, but I don't have any first hand experience with them.

I personally went with the Sennheiser Pro body packs and they have been rock solid. All I do is add the batteries and turn them on, haven't changed a thing since I first bought them. In fact, its been so long since I've been in the menu system I probably at this point shouldn't change anything.  They just work....every single time with no interference or drops.

11 hours ago, Django said:

I think it brings you closer to the OVF viewing experience but its unclear if it eliminates EVF lag. For that I think you really need a stacked sensor (or faster processor) which improves refresh rates but who knows it may still be improved from R5. Kind of a shame there is no data on this issue. As for battery drain, I think I read it didn't drain any more but again no hard evidence.

I guess this is where your 5D IV still holds a valuable purpose? I can really see how in run & gun flash photography EVF lag would be a serious handicap.

I know a lot of buyers of the EOS R really complained about the lag. They had one on display in a store once and I picked it up and just panned from side to side while looking through the viewfinder; the lag was so bad it was the final nail in the coffin for the EOS R for me. I was truly in disbelief that anyone was willing to put up with it.

I think at the end of the day I am probably the only one that notices the shots I missed or didn't get perfect while knowing the lag caused it. The only time when the client noticed as well was the ballerina shoot. She was giving me looks that made it clear she didn't know why I wasn't nailing her leg and arm placement mid leap. 

10 hours ago, kye said:

Yes, being able to anticipate the moment and compensate for it by hitting the button early would be highly dependent on how predictable the perfect moment is, how long the delay time is, and how good you are at compensating for the delay.

It seems like you have particularly good timing and are operating in less predictable scenarios so the performance on offer isn't sufficient to meet your needs.  Pity.  Ultimately though, you have to go with what gets you the most keepers.  After all, cameras are tools, not toys, right 🙂 

Honestly, I am probably just making it more than it is.  If I did not rely on flash so heavily or shoot so many specific situations that require both flash lighting as well as precision then the lag wouldn't bother me as much. With sports you can just hold down the shutter so mirrorless is definitely capable of capturing peak action even with the lag. At events people are used to redos over someone blinking so that's not a big deal either.

For 99% of my work, only I will know when I missed the exact moment I wanted due to the EVF lag so I can live with that.

On 10/6/2022 at 10:10 AM, SusieC said:

Does the R7 have separate C1-C3 setting for photos and video like the R5?  The R6 doesn’t have this function but it would be great if the R7 did.

Yes it has those options on the mode dial.

On 8/28/2022 at 4:32 AM, ntblowz said:

For the hybrid shooting R5 is defintiely better, but if just mainly for video or birding then R7 is much better value. As I said if I didnt have R5 I would go for R7 without a thought.

Actually, I think the R7 is better for hybrid shooting at least for events. The R7 impresses me more and more as I work with it. The R7 has no record limits, hybrid hotshoe, uses identical memory card types in both slots, hasn't once overheated on me using the original FW even in 100F degree heat, battery life is way better, and the button layout has really grown on me during fast moving hybrid shoots at events. 

Due to the R7 I have changed my whole shooting style at events. I have the R7 in a cage with a side handle for hand-held shots for both photo and video along with a hotshoe flash on top and can flick from photos to video and back without ever lowering the camera. I also added a strap mount to the cage which is another first for me for a video camera.

So, 3 months in below are some of my findings with the R7 so far. This is from my perspective when shooting with it for both photos and videos at events:

• Best Hybrid Lens: Canon EF 24-70 F2.8 L. This was a surprising one for me, I tested out the Sigma EF-S 18-35 F1.8 which many people rave about but it did not seem sharp to me, especially at F1.8. Also, the lens AF motors were some of the loudest I have ever heard; definitely not acceptable with a camera mounted shotgun mic. It also was wider than I needed it at the wide end and not long enough at the long end. When I tested the Canon EF 24-70 F2.8L the R7 was suddenly razor sharp, focusing noise was greatly reduced and the FF sensor focal length of approximately 38-112mm was perfect for both pictures and video. This lens also works very well with the R7 on the Ronin RS2; it balances perfectly. A final plus for the Canon 24-70 F2.8 is the lock switch which locks the barrel so I would engage that whenever it was on a gimbal to keep the balance.
• Ergonomics - This is the first camera I have ever owned that I feel equally comfortable shooting both photos and video. When shooting a fast-moving event, the ergonomics of this camera really start to shine as a hybrid. I can flip the power switch from off/on/video then adjust the aperture using the ring around the joystick all within seconds and without moving my hand from the grip. For events I literally just hand hold and use the back screen for images then flip to video get a few clips without lowering the camera then back to photos. A hotshoe mounted flash gets me down to ISO 100 for photos and video starts at ISO800 so once it is all set up I can shoot the optimal ISO for both formats without touching the settings. 
• Photo / Video Separation - None of the photo and video settings are linked which is another pro and a slight con. It would be nice to be able to pick what to link like the S5 let me do. I would like to link the WB, and Aperture because they are typically the same between photos and video. 
• AF Separation - This is a subtle nuance that is also pretty nice with the R7, the AF settings in photo mode also do not affect the video mode. So for example you can set continuous AF with person tracking and eye detect in photo mode and continuous AF with tracking and eye detect off for video mode. You can also create a box on the screen and limit the AF features to just that box if you have time to set all of that up.
• Flash Sync Speed - I am totally confused on this one. The documented maximum flash sync speed is 1/250s but I went as high as 1/500s at times and my flash output did not drop nor was my flash in HSS mode so I have no idea what that's about. It was a very pleasant surprise though. Most cameras stop at their flash sync speed and won't let you go any higher until you set the flash to HSS at which point your output drops quite a bit or you have problems in your image due to exceeding the sync speed, but neither occurred when I exceeded the flash sync speed.

The Bad - unfortunately the R7 is not perfect, I have found a few more annoyances after shooting with it for awhile

• Flash Hotshoe Doesn't Fire - This is my main annoyance, the hotshoe has approximately a 5% failure rate when triggering the flash. Same flash I have had for years, never once had it not fire when attached directly to the camera, but with the R7 it fails to trigger sometimes. At first I thought it was just coming loose, but no matter how much I tightened it, it would still fail occasionally. For events that's a major annoyance when you are trying to capture peak action and relying on the flash for fill.
• Recording Doesn't Stop - Sometimes the recording would not stop after pressing the recording button. Holding the button doesn't help, pressing it repeatedly doesn't help, it will just not stop recording without additional fiddling. Sometimes I had to press the stop button on the screen itself to get it to stop. It never took more than a few seconds of fiddling to get it to stop, but annoying none the less.
• Horizon Leveling - This one is very minor, but I did discover that this has to be turned off when on a gimbal. The horizon leveling makes the image slowly rock from side to side on a gimbal. It took about an hour of fiddling to find that one. I thought sure it was my gimbal, but then I turned off the horizon leveling feature and the image was rock solid. I am not sure yet how useful this is when handholding since I don't have time to turn it off and on at events so I just leave it off.

R7 or R6II? I know @Django asked me if both were available today which one would I pick? I think without having ever shot with the R7 then the R6II would be no contest. But now after shooting with the R7 I think the main technical drawback the R7 really has is line skipped 60FPS. The R6II has some really nice to have features (most could be added via a FW update to the R7 if Canon felt generous), but for event hybrid work the R7 is great. For events the line skipped quality is probably more than adequate, but for higher end work like commercial work or possibly mid budget weddings, it may not hold up.

The Verdict - The R7 has actually exceeded my expectations for a hybrid camera. Even the fact it is a crop sensor is actually helpful because it breathed new life into my Canon EF 24-70 lens with the change in focal lengths.  The IBIS is great, AF of course is perfect even though I still only use the cross hairs for AF, none of the fancy tracking features, but the part that I do use is rock solid reliable. I was looking at speedbooster options (and may still need one for lowlight situations), but so far the R7 is a perfect fit even with the crop sensor.

I need to practice with the more advanced AF options more to see if I can incorporate them into fast moving run and gun situations. I don't trust tracking or eye AF for video, but for photos it seems pretty solid.

Below is a recent event highlight video I shot with the R7. Approximately 90% was handheld, the entire event (photos and video), I shot with just the Canon EF 24-70 F2.8 lens.  I also used the 4K30FPS Fine option with compressed IPB and CLOG3 Cinema Gamut combined with Davinci Resolve Managed Color and a slight creative grade to finish it off. The colors straight out of camera were great to work with.

This shoot was particularly challenging because the event was half under massive really dark unlit tents and half in shade with midday sunlight all around so my focus was on properly exposing the subject matter with no regard to the background exposure. As a refence point, another videographer was there with a C300III running the live feed and he was also unable to keep the DR within the C300III's sensor so it was no fault of the camera that it couldn't handle the full DR of many of the scenes.

Below are a few sample images from the event. These were shot with a hotshoe mounted flash handheld and the same Canon EF 24-70 F2.8 lens. All images were shot raw and post processed in LR. Colors are straight out of camera, nothing was added to the colors.

On 11/7/2022 at 2:16 AM, Attila Bakos said:

No, I'm referring to NVIDIA/AMD. I just did a test for you. I have a Lenovo Legion 5i Pro laptop with an i7-12700h CPU and a 3070Ti GPU. I loaded a 2160p 4:2:2 HEVC F-Log clip to Resolve, added a LUT and some tweaking.
With hybrid mode enabled (that is Resolve can use both internal GPU and the dedicated one), I get smooth 25fps playback with low CPU usage and rendered out the clip with the H.265 Master preset in 18 seconds.
Now if I switch to dedicated GPU only mode, I get 21-23 fps playback and high CPU usage and the clip rendered out in 41 seconds.
So basically with 10th or higher gen Intel CPU I get 4:2:2 support in addition to what the GPU already offers, no need for a Mac (for this).

Oh ok, I was referring to the link between the GPU and CPU in the hardware not software which so far is proprietary to Intel Arc. Based on your tests it does sound like there is a CPU/GPU combination that will work for the footage coming out of the Canon cameras, but it does not help those of us that do not have a QS capable CPU.  I still think NVIDIA, AMD, or Intel should be able to offer a GPU that handles 10 bit 4:2:2 footage natively. 

On 11/7/2022 at 1:07 PM, Django said:

Actually R6 is the best selling R series model. That category and price point is where sales max out just like A7III/IV is the best selling FF Alpha. That is also why Canon quickly released a R6 MK2 to counter A7IV sales. So no, that's not a valid excuse.. R5C however could explain it as it fixes overheating & adds cine os (its already a sort of R5 mk2).

As for OVF/EVF well if you're using ES then of course blackout disapears and you might have more keepers but that doesn't eliminate EVF lag, adds RS artefacts and you lose 14-bit IQ. That probably doesn't matter as much to you then nailing the shot given your type of extreme action work (impressive shots btw). R3 would be better for the EVF but also 50% more fps (30fps vs 20fps) in full 14-bit RAW and lower RS. But I understand 45mp may ultimately trump those specs/IQ if you crop a lot.

Lastly, I've found more info about the R6 mk2 OLED EVF and its OVF simulation mode and it looks like it is directly lifted off the R3 so another huge bonus win for the R6ii:

The R3 goes beyond the EVF of the R5, though, utilizing an all-new, Canon-designed OLED panel in this EVF. The EVF includes a setting called "OVF Simulation" that is said to mimic the natural viewing experience of the 1D X's optical viewfinder thanks to the EVF display's high brightness performance and Canon's HDR image processing technology. By default, OVF Simulation is turned off, which means you can see a live preview of the exposure and image-processing picture profile settings as you shoot -- just like with most mirrorless cameras (arguably one of the qualities I enjoy from an EVF over an optical viewfinder). 

However, for those that prefer the look at the behavior of an optical viewfinder, the OVF Simulation works quite well. But, the OVF Simulation goes beyond just making things look like an optical viewfinder and turning off the exposure preview simulation, for example. The OLED panel can get incredibly bright, and with Canon's HDR technology, you essentially have a natural-looking, HDR-based view when the OVF Simulation mode is enabled. You can see more highlight and shadow detail than in the standard EVF mode, as well as get a very bright and crisp view of your scene.

 

I did read or hear something about that in one of the videos but didn't pay close attention to it. If that does indeed come a lot closer to the OVF experience, then that really is good news. I keep getting the feeling that I should have trusted my gut instinct and skipped the R5 and waited for the R5II which I am sure will fix almost if not every problem I have. One question I would have though is how much does that add to the battery drain when that mode is enabled.

I have noticed with the R7 that if I turn on the high FPS mode the battery life seems to drop by at least 30%.

12 hours ago, kye said:

Getting used to there being a delay in something is absolutely a thing.  

I've had the experience several times where I went from something that had a delay to something that had less delay and the sensation that you get is that the thing happens before you hit the button!  
Obviously it wasn't beforehand, but I was so used to the delay being there that my brain had eliminated it.

Some people may be better at adapting to small delays than others of course.

I think that would work fine for something with a predictable trajectory like a person walking or in a situation like the ballerina where you can just hold down the shutter and pick the best one later (if you are using continuous lighting); but it is impossible to predict something that happens with completely unpredictability when combined with flash synch constraints as well as an EVF which is only showing you something that already happened. There is no way to predict a quick dress flip, hair toss, over the shoulder glance, etc. when the EVF is so far behind you don't even see it until it is over.

It is kind of ironic because my keeper rate for sharp images went up due to the improved AF of the R5, then went back down due to the EVF lag so I ended up around where I started. I would actually prefer an occasional out of focus image to what I am dealing with now which is missing peak action moments.

I have to imagine that most people who are fine with the EVF lag aren't filming the type of subject matter that I am where I am so dependent on flash recycle times.  Don't get me wrong though, for pretty much everything else I shoot (headshots, portraits, events, etc. etc.) the R5 is great since I can either redo, everything is predictable, or there is continuous lighting (the sun).  But it really irks me when I get in situations where an OVF would be far more reliable after paying so much for the R5.

8 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

But what if you have an Intel processor with 4:2:2 decoding support and a dedicated GPU? I was under the impression that they can work together.

I believe you are referring to Intel Arc, that's the only card I am aware of that can do that. The problem is if you already have a desktop that is not QS capable then the only way to get a QS capable system is to buy or build a new one.

12 hours ago, Django said:

EVF lag is a real thing and demands even further adaptation although it sounds like you are limited by your flash recycle time not necessarily the cameras fault?

As for the R5 freezing etc it kinda sounds like you got a lemon. I dunno since I've got an R6 and never experienced any type of freeze or shutter issue. Did they really cram too much into R5 to the point where it bugs out? If so, maybe the R5C is better at handling things with a totally separate OS that reboots in stills/video modes..?

It sounds frustrating but truth is other brands aren't immune to any of this either. I left Nikon after my D750 took months to repair because of a faulty part requiring a massive recall that took ages to arrive from China to Nikon EU service centre in Netherlands. Horrible customer service too compared to Canon who are based right outside of Paris. These are the type of things that make us pros stick or leave a brand. 

I've had several Sony Alphas ruined straight to the garbage dump due to their horrible weather sealing (just only recently improved).

But getting back to Canon, I originally joined them because of their reputation and hardware reliability. Was the only Japanese company with still Made in Japan products too (well there was Fuji too but that changed). But yeah I agree that the Canon R series and RF lenses don't have at all that same premium feel of the DSLRs/EF lenses. Maybe R3, I haven't tested it yet. But that's a $6K camera.  

Yes, not the camera's fault its a limitation of the technology. But coming from OVFs, I just want the camera to record what my eyes see in the viewfinder, didn't think that was asking for much until I switched to mirrorless.  All flashes have recycle times and I use some sort of additional lighting for nearly everything so it just is one more thing to try to adjust to. I try to predict now what will happen next but its a whole lot harder than just seeing it through an OVF.

5 hours ago, gt3rs said:

I got maybe 5 frozen episodes with the R5 in 2 years all due to a crappy CFExpress card.

I used to move around R5 + adapter + 200-400 F4 (3.6 kg lens) by holding only the camera with one hand and never had issue with play… and this 1-2 times a weeks for 2h hockey matches.

 

I don't doubt there are reliable well built R5's out there, what I do doubt is that I got one of them but no way to prove any of it and Canon's CPS already looked at it and said nothing is wrong with it.  I had the whole screen freezing problems when I first got it; that was fixed in FW 1.5, now with FW 1.6 the shutter button stopped working until a reboot.

There's no way I would put a 200-400 on my R5 body without a mono or tripod, not after the way it felt with the EF 70-200.  Maybe Canon had to source parts differently due to the pandemic, or maybe I got a bad copy.....who knows. In all the years I owned the 5DIV, it only ever locked up twice; once because the write protect switch got flipped on the SD card and once because the SD card was bad.

But anyway, this is way off topic, I am really impressed with the R7 so far as a hybrid camera, for me it has been more reliable and trouble free than the R5, so if the R6II is anything like the R7 for reliability then it is going to be a fantastic camera.  The R5II will probably fix all of the problems with the R5 similar to the R6II.

2 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

If what @herein2020 is saying about bigger/longer telephoto EF lenses is true - it would be the first legit reason I'd consider switching to RF lenses (at least when it comes to the 70-200mm) altho that would be way down the road bcuz I simply do not have that kind of coin to spend, lol!

Trust me I did not want to spend one penny on RF lenses but I just couldn't take the whole flexing and instability. I must grudgingly admit though the RF 70-200 is incredibly sharper than the EF version and it takes a lot to impress me. I am the last one to pixel peep but the difference was immediately noticeable to me.

17 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Oh wow, actually have not used my 70-200mm on the R5C yet - but now I am pretty concerned. So just to clarify, are you experiencing those issues even when using the tripod collar?

I was using it for photography and no tripod so it had to hang down by my side when not in use and grabbing the camera body to bring it up to my eye before I had my second hand on the lens barrel is where the flexing and sounds were occurring. I don't use that setup on a tripod at all so it may be better in a video setting, but for photography with it swinging around at my side I was concerned for the adapter and lens mount.

15 minutes ago, Attila Bakos said:

That's true, however Intel QuickSync supports hw encoding/decoding of 4:2:2 HEVC since Gen10. Better than nothing 🙂

Yes but to get that you need to buy a whole new PC, not an option to me and if you study Puget Sound's results, QS is still only marginal; meaning if you add DR color grades, and throw in a little Fusion and you are back to where you started; definitely not M1 Mac competition. There's just no way I am buying a whole new PC when all I need is a video card.