Video Hummus

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Plot twist. This patent is actually for the Komodo. Canon makes it for RED.

Just a thought. Probably an incorrect one but it is oddly similar isn't it?

yeah, that is way too similar to Komodo to be a coincidence. Something more to the story here on that patent filing...

5 hours ago, tupp said:

That would be my guess.  Even the most vapid, short-sighted, self-absorbed marketing person couldn't be stupid enough to throw away a venerable brand name such as Olympus.

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Must be a reason surely why they have chosen to throw away the heritage of over 80 years of the brand name OLYMPUS.

I’d hope so otherwise it’s not the wisest move…

Say someone bought Ferrari and then had the bright spark idea to change the name to ‘FR-Cars’.

Ok, so why didn't they come up with a better, more memorable name than some bargain basement OM SYSTEM? They could have bought the rights to the Olympus "Stylus" or "Zuiko" trademarks. 

38 minutes ago, hoodlum said:

Based on the latest rumor it looks like the name “OLYMPUS” will still exist on the front of the EVF on the OM-1.  So the Olympus name will live for a while longer.  But I guess you know this already. 😉

That’s good because they had so many other good things to come up with other than f’ing “OM SYSTEMS”

I'm considering Olympus MFT setup now that Panasonic has announced the GH6 will have DfD. I'm looking for a lightweight crop sensor landscape photo / video hybrid for an ultralight pack. The OM-1 will have DCI 4K, 10-bit, good color, PDAF, astro tracking, pixelshift, and world class IBIS. I'm not convinced OM systems is in it for the long haul, but if the OM-1 is anything like previous Olympus cameras it will provide value for years to come.

Panasonic is bleeding out because they don't have good AF. I don't see it stopping.

Canon is probably going to drop RF T1.5 Cine lenses this spring.

55 minutes ago, mercer said:

With that, at what point, do we as consumers, tell Canon, Sony, et al...  that we don't want higher resolution? Give us ProRes, give us true 14+ stops of DR, give us better color depth. Is 8K enough? DO we need 12K... 16... 20K?

But they have been working on giving you both. Nikon just put ProRes in a mirrorless camera. BM has offered it for awhile. C70, A7SIII, BMPCC6K and a few others are clocking in at 13-14 stops of DR. Anything higher is from an extremely expensive ARRI camera. Color depths has been increasing. 8-bit to 10-bit internal...now some are offering 12-bit internal. We also have cameras that shoot from 2K-8K resolutions at a touch of a few buttons or menu items. We have entry level RED cameras at $6K that offer 13 stops, REDCODE RAW and "autofocus" (well better than Panasonic anyway!) in a mirrorless sized box camera with a global shutter! You can throw on your favorite vintage lens, shoot at what ever resolution makes sense for you and get amazing results.

I don't get all the circular complaining.

On 2/5/2022 at 4:41 AM, kaylee said:

resolution (2001)

 

Oh shit! Did they digitally crop for an artistic intent? Amateurs!

10 hours ago, kye said:

Where?

In the last 8 years

1. Streaming resolution has gone up. I remember when YouTube maxed at 720p and they called it HD!
2. Streaming bitrates have gone up.
3. Better codecs are being used.
4. TV manufactures and streaming services are working on a true "cinema" display standard for viewing.
5. Storage $/GB have continued to decline.
6. Camera media is getting larger and more inexpensive (You can get a 512GB CFExpress card from Angelbird that can handle 8K for $179).
7. Cameras are universally adding 10-bit color in camera.
8. Some cameras are offering 12-bit internal RAW at fairly reasonable bitrates.
9. Camera resolutions are going up
10. Color science is improving in multiple brands
11. Professional grading and editing software is more available and cheaper than ever
12. You can learn how to professional grade your footage FREE to maximize the 10-bit / 12-bit color coming out of your camera.

On 2/5/2022 at 2:43 AM, MrSMW said:

That’s my tribe.

I shoot specifically for SOOC results for a couple of reasons:

And that is perfectly valid way to shoot. And so you buy the camera that works best for you and gives you the best SOOC result. As things evolve you switch up your gear to get better results and an easier workflow. This is how technology works. Now you can get cameras that shoot seasoned SOOC colors that look decent in 10-bit. Many of your clients will probably own or WILL own a 10-bit HDR TV / monitor where the footage will shine and look good.

On 2/4/2022 at 10:01 PM, kye said:

It's about the outcome and understanding the end goal.  I was hoping that by posting a bunch of real images that it would put things into perspective and people would understand that resolutions about 4K (and maybe above 2K) really aren't adding much to the image, but come at the expense of improving other things that matter more.

Then take your 5K/6K/8K oversampling camera and put it in a 2K/4K mode with as high as a bit depth as you can get. Color your footage however you want.

Hell, if you camera shoots 12-bit+ RAW. Then shoot that and then conform it to ARRI LOG-C and grade it just like an ARRI camera minus a few stops of dynamic range. You can do that now! So until ARRI releases a mirrorless camera with IBIS you won't be happy. I would say the other brands are coming up faster to reaching that point than you think. You just might have to accept that your 2-4K 10-bit plus footage will be oversampled from 8K or more.

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think it's obvious what it's about, and I fully agree with him.

I meant I don't know why he blew his top like that. Why not write a reasoned post about why and if he has the goods that are so bad outline them and then exit the scene. I can understand the anger and all but just trashing people on twitter looks bad and doesn't help him communicate his case to others. People instantly got defensive. But perhaps it all doesn't matter what he says the ugly machine will keep rolling.

22 hours ago, kye said:

Scenario 1: The resolution wars

• Manufacturers increase the resolution of their cameras to entice people to buy them
• File sizes go through the roof, requiring thousands of dollars of equipment upgrades to store, and process the footage
• Features like IBIS, connectivity, colour science, reliability, take a back seat
• Shooting is somewhat frustrating, the post process more demanding, upload times gruelling
• We watch everything through streaming services where the compression obliterates the effects of the extra resolution (see the above test) and things like the colour are on full display

Scenario 2: The quality wars

• Manufacturers increase the quality of their cameras by going all-in on features like great-performing IBIS, full-connectivity, almost unimaginably good colour science, and solid reliability to entice people to buy them
• File sizes stay manageable without requiring expensive upgrades
• Shooting is easy and the equipment convenient and pleasant to use, the post process is smooth, upload times are reasonable
• We watch everything through streaming services where the resolution is appropriate to the compression and things like the colour are on full display, creating a wonderful image regardless of how the images are viewed

You can have both. 

Read the Canon Rumors Twitter. He had a sort of meltdown and said he had “the goods” on youtubers like Gerald, Fro, and others. Not sure what it was all about.

He also told Tyler Stalman to just the fuck up because he gives Eoshd a voice or something of that manner. Not sure what that was about either. 

12 hours ago, kye said:

Not sure what your point is here.

My point is why do you fucking care what resolution the camera shoots in.

1 hour ago, Jay60p said:

But I am looking forward to a good hi-res 3D headset, I hope Apple pulls it off.

I think this will require high resolution 8K+ and high frame rates at both capture and viewing. I used a VR headset it was basically a headache machine.

So in conclusion. It doesn't matter what resolution you shoot at because what matters most for these kind of productions is the lens choices, lighting, set production, camera positioning and movement, and talented colorists.

Those professionals could take a 2K image and a 6K image and make them look the same. Except the 6K image, in their own words, allows them more flexibility in post, including...omg...reframing the source material in post 🤯.

5 hours ago, kye said:

Too heavy, too expensive, and too large for how/where I shoot.

Komodo stripped to the bones would give you better AF, better image, better battery life than a GH5. No IBIS though. But neither does your BM camera.

5 hours ago, kaylee said:

what about ufos tho

They would continue to be unknown flying objects and a great campfire beer story.

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not to mention competition is much more compelling. Z9 anyone?

This is the only competition to me that is intriguing but it would be nice to have more video focused tools for video. I'm no expert on N-Log but from initial testing from other people it looks like it may need updated to allow for more DR as it only allows maximum of 12 stops–that limits 4K footage at the moment. In 8K RAW we don't know the specifies on the bitrates yet. It would seem, based on some charts from Angelbird, that the RAW bitrates could be quite high. Hopefully they have more compressed options. 10:1 would be great.

I would love to see Nikon succeed in the video space. I honestly think they have to to stay relevant.

2 hours ago, Django said:

It was always a stopgap and now thinking of replacing it with R5C & maybe C70 down the line.

I'm looking to perhaps pick up an R5C as well. Will probably skip the C70 and wait for a FF, DGO, internal ND camera from Canon (or from another company!) if and when that comes. Seems like we are getting close.

7 hours ago, kye said:

I was referring to the original Alexa.  The one that's 10 years old and is barely breaking five-figures second hand now.

So why don't you have one and are shooting on one? Sounds like your perfect camera!

6 hours ago, Django said:

now of course a talking head office interview isn't going to absolutely require a Cooke anamorphic on an Alexa65

You sure about that? It's all about the aesthetic and emotion. What if the client watches the corporate talking head video on their 30 seat private theater instead of on their laptop on YouTube?

7 hours ago, kye said:

The videographers priority is to work with consumers/brands to create clean/modern looking videos that make them money.  
The cinematographers priority is to work with imperfections to create emotion that supports a story.

That dude wasn't describing a videographer. He was describing someone that doesn't know how to use a camera.

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Eh? It's a valid argument.

Who needs 8K and is it needed on a $4.5K cinema camera?

I don't see the issue with debating it at all.

8K can be useful. Using a blanket statement of questioning "who needs 8K?" because you don't need it for cinema is a bit myopic in my opinion. It's not like 8K is the only format this camera can output. It's not like the only use for video is cinema or production story telling. Having 8K in my pocket seems pretty useful if I'm at a location and can capture some 8K RAW stock footage and make a few bucks on my vacation or on the side of a work project. 

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's a case of each to his own.

I personally invested tens of thousands of euros and £ into Canon gear over the past few years.

It's not true at all to say I never have anything good to say about a Canon lens or camera.

The EOS R5 was not for me, it was an unethically marketed product and raising our concerns as paying customers got us exactly ZERO APOLOGY, and in fact a tidal wave of online abuse for our troubles - not for me - but the others involved in the timer and firmware discoveries as well.

It's all a bit ungrateful if you ask me.

The hate and abuse is unwarranted and regrettable. I am glad you and others investigated this issue and it informed my buying decision even though I eventually did buy an R5 after weighing the pros and cons of such a camera.

Generally, people seem to have to be upset about something. Before there was outrage about the R5 overheating. Now its sucks because who needs 8K and I need an external battery source to shoot the 8K I don't want at 60p! Outrageous!

If Canon had released both of these cameras at the same time that would have made more sense but it wouldn't have made business sense in a market that is struggling. Oh well. The monkeys in marketing always seem to win.

I'm just glad there is now a camera with cinema tools in this size of a body that is more reliable. Having to wait 8 seconds to switch from full cinema OS to Photo OS is the least of my problems and worth it for what I get.

14 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Use wrong lens and composition and crop in post.. because you have 35 mega pixels!

Set wrong exposure and white balance and lift colors and shadows in post.. because you have RAW file!

Sorry, I don't call this trend "progress". 

If someone shoots like this then they aren't very good at what they are doing with any camera.

25 minutes ago, Django said:

To each their own. I'm not trying to win an Oscar with an R5C. 

Exactly, jesus the amount of pedantic rehashing of bullshit that goes on in this forum.

We all know Andrew will have nothing nice to say about any Canon camera or any camera from any company that has slighted him in the past. Thats fine. Opinions and morals and all.

No one on this forum is shooting Oscar level cinema of any kind and if they are they aren't arguing over who needs 8K from a $4.5K entry level cinema camera from Canon debating over screen grabs of a YT video. Hardly anybody is using parfocal cinema zooms to shoot weddings and get the "pure" zoom or punch in. If you are, please stand up so we can applaud you for your dedication to purity.

Sorry to hear this. Seems like one of these:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1348544-REG/ruggard_edc_50l_electronic_dry_cabinet_50l.html/overview

Would be a good investment for collector lenses or equipment. I'm sure you could make something yourself for like $10.

On 1/22/2022 at 9:55 PM, kye said:

It might have a Dual Gain (not dual ISO) architecture like the Alexa sensor and output 14-bit LOG with huge dynamic range.

I think this is the way to go. MFT will always kinda suck in lowlight. Would much rather have expanded dynamic range.

I would love to see a ZV1 Mark 2 with a wider lens 16mm or 18mm.

5 hours ago, herein2020 said:

The wobble I've seen from the R5 is when it is on a gimbal with lenses wider than 35mm.

Thats strange. Can anybody else confirm this?

With the R5 you can hand hold 500mm for video and its pretty damn good. Try that with a Sony and a 200-600 and you will be sorely disappointed.

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I wouldn't kick a pair of R5's out of bed other than...

You could rent an R5C and a lens and try it out.

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Funny he didn't mention the IBIS wobble problem that only Canon seems to have.

Look at the wobble.

19 hours ago, kye said:

Obviously it's not clear what the politics are, but it means a cultural change within the company to either let it happen (if you're the cinema department) or to order it to happen (if you're in charge and can make people do things they don't want to do).

I did software for a bit. It is interesting they took this route instead of developing a unified OS version that could feature gate individual features cohesively across models. Perhaps thats coming down the pipe, who knows. Probably just internal politics, bean counting, and product segmentation.

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The point about having 100 megapixel for stills justifies the existence of the larger format just by itself because there are huge proportions of commercial photography and fine art that ends up printed very large and placed where viewers are just a few inches away.

Fuji also seems to be making inroads amongst landscape photographers because of the combination of 100 MP and 16-bit RAWs, and I guess the Fuji colors.