Video Hummus

44 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

One of the best features about the C70 is the amazing Long GOP compression. It is really really impressive. The files are tiny and look amazing. It is very hard to tell the difference. 

Hearing this makes me think this is just another buttered up spec feature rather than offering anything of practical value.

R5 is 8K RAW Lite @ 1350Mbps which is just over double what the supposed C70 will offer at 4K. So I guess R5 is much more compressed considering its 4x the data (4K vs 8K).

38 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

The C70 uses SDXC cards. The write speed maxes out at 300mbps... 

I really wish they had went Cfast 2.0 or even the OG like the Komodo. 

V90 SD cards top out at 90MB/s which is 720 Mbits/sec. They are saying 645Mbit/sec so that makes sense since there is always protocol overhead.

On 1/13/2022 at 7:38 PM, Kino said:

https://www.canonrumors.com/more-than-just-the-canon-eos-r5c-will-be-announced-on-january-19-2022/

According to this source, Canon will also announce the following: RAW option for the C70 (this must be external); RF cinema glass; and C300/C500 8K cameras.

I guess the R5C is just a stop-gap until we get those proper 8K cinema cameras. Canon is milking the R5 one more time . . .

Rumors are saying the CRAW LT on the C70 will be internal to SD cards at 645Mbps. That’s highly compressed. How?

Also, perhaps they will tease new RF cinema cameras. If this is true then they are going all in on RF across product categories. 

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

The R5C will sell hundreds times more because it will have useable AF, this is the sole reason I never considered the S1H as a viable GH5 replacement; spending that much $$ to still have the same AF problems as the GH5 didn't make sense to me which is how I ended up with the S5 (less $$ with many of the S1H's benefits)

And this is why the GH6 will most likely fail, and the S2H and so on. AF is becoming competent enough where its actually reliable and useful for common situations. Why spend that kind of money and not get AF? Panasonic wake up.

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

There is no way Canon is going to let just a few ND filters and XLR inputs stand between its R5c and C70

C70 has superior DR, XLR, internal NDs, CLOG2 and pro level exposure tools. 

25 minutes ago, Kino said:

True. I had to look this up as I don't own an R5. The camera switches to 12 bit readout in Electronic Shutter mode. That is a serious problem.

This is why Canon Cinema Cameras since the original C300 have always used 14 bit readout at the sensor regardless of the video encode.

And this is why I'm confused with why it's in the Canon Cinema line. A "pro" compact VIDEO cinema camera with a mirrorless photo camera's sensor. I'm excited to see the body and form factor though.

I'm kinda surprised Pentax isn't more popular among optical viewfinder reflex diehards. Seems like they have excellent lenses and feature rich cameras that do just about anything. The K-1 is legendary among Pentax users and Pentax has a 645 medium format line they could revive and compete against FujiFilm GFX system with a fairly extensive lens lineup from 33mm to 400mm (FF 21mm to 312).

I wonder who else will join the medium format party? Fujifilm is really making inroads among landscape photographers with  GFX line.

Sony is probably selling a lot of high-end cameras at the moment. Probably most likely A7IV, A7SIII, and A1. Margins are much higher for those products.

Canon is announcing a R5C. A camera probably no one will be able to buy for 4-6 months. I hope it has more than the rumors are saying it has. I’m more excited to see the body and form factor.

Nikon is probably most disappointed. They finally release a pro mirrorless camera for a good price with more than competent video chops and probably can’t produce enough of them. Hopefully it doesn’t hurt future development from Nikon. It finally seems like they are on a strong course for mirrorless hybrids. 

I’m glad they are taking the shutters out. More room for other things.

Benefits of quad-pixel? Better AF acquisition horizontal and vertically? I’m really impressed already with R5 and A1 tap-to-track and eye/face/body tracking. 

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

I love the idea of the C70, in fact I pre-ordered it when pre-orders were available, but then the S5 was announced, and I cancelled my pre-order.  Who wouldn't love ND filters and XLR inputs in a gimbal friendly format? Not to mention the C300's sensor. 

I am pretty fed up with no CAF with the S5 so I started considering the C70 again. The lack of IBIS is the biggest show stopper for me. I know no other C camera has it but they also aren't really meant to be handheld like a DSLR. 

I still don't like the speedbooster approach, if I were to get an RF mount camera I would want to be able to at some point go 100% RF mount but that would turn the C70 into a S35 and it would lose that light advantage. So yes, overall the C70 is not for me but it came so close it is disappointing that it didn't go the rest of the way. 

I'm guessing in 2022 a C90 FF camera will be released with an RF mount or maybe they will wait a yr after releasing the R5c which on paper could be the perfect camera until the Canon cripple hammer strikes again.  The R5c probably won't have XLR inputs or ND filters.

I'm saving for a C70 to replace a R6 mostly for the internal NDs and video exposure tools. I have no desire to buy EF glass when RF is here and can share with my R5. So I would be running a C70 with RF glass and a S35 sensor. Good thing is many of the RF glass has IS built-in which helps with the lack of IBIS in the C70. I'm thinking with RF IS lenses and EIS when needed that will be enough for my needs.

Perhaps a C90 will come with C70 body and FF sensor. If the R5C has the same sensor as the R5 it is a hard pass for me. I already have a R5 and I would prefer better video DR performance on par or better than C70 can offer.

It's pretty clear we probably won't get much better hybrid cameras from Canon. C70 is kinda in-between and initial I didn't like it but it has grown on me after renting one for a week. I hope Canon refines this form factor more and adds capabilities and performance. I enjoyed just exposing in the middle and the DGO sensor really kept detail and shadow noise down.

11 hours ago, Django said:

 

What's wrong with its build quality? I mean I'm sure its no RED/ARRI but does it feel any worse than a C100/C200?

All the C70 reviews I've seen say it feels a lot more solid and substantial in hand than let's say a BMPCC6K.

It's all relative to what you compare it to I guess.

R5/R6 feel a bit on the cheap side compared to their DSLR counterparts imo. R3 looks like a major step up in build quality.

BMPCC6K is kinda a low bar.

I think it lacks in build quality compared to the other C cameras. The screen hinge is weak and can easily become floppy. The distance pin on top can break easily. Some of the buttons are just sloppy feeling. For $5,500 they can at least fix these things. It's a pro tool it should feel solid and reliable.

On 11/28/2021 at 7:35 AM, Django said:

I also use an R6 and yeah the 5.5K oversampled FF 10-bit 422 h265 codec in CLOG3 can achieve excellent results.

Dare I say the IQ might even be slightly better than C70 thanks to the oversampled 4K?

But the DR isn't great and neither is the RS. And then you have battery life and the overheating.

I had an all-day interview recently and was using R6 as B-cam to a C200 and the timers started dropping after about 2.5 hours of shooting. It never actually overheated but I had to pull out battery in between each take. Nightmare situation.

Its because of that I want to replace it ASAP with a C70 for commercial work. 

Both the R5 and R6 lack in the DR department but it’s worst on the R6. The 8K oversampling on the R5 helps in the 4K HQ clog3 mode.

Will be interesting to see what the heck the R5C is, if it is even a product anymore.

Worst thing about the $5500 C70 is the build quality and the mediocre flip screen. Everything else is pretty solid. I don’t care much for RAW really, unless from a RED camera. Come to think of it the Komodo AF isn’t terrible…

8 hours ago, Django said:

Gorgeous! C70 ticks so many boxes for me. It really sounds like the perfect cam for my needs (A-cam for an R6 replacing C100/C200). 

I feel its really under-rated because of its form factor and no RAW or 6/8K. 

At it's price point it's competing with the C300ii/6KP/Komodo/R5/R3/FX3/FX6.

All great cameras but the C70 really sounds like that perfect balance between all of them.

 

I'm also looking into the C70. I don't need it but no-fuss image, internal NDs and false colors/waveforms are attractive over say the R6 I've been using and the just released R3.

Might also wait to see what comes in the pipeline in 2022. If Sony releases an FX3 style camera with internal ND I might consider that too although I would like to avoid having to lens mounts. Please Canon!

1 hour ago, BenEricson said:

Red or Arri does better.

I would hope a $30K-$60K camera would have a better image.

Canon are rumored to have newer FF DGO sensors coming with improved dynamic range. Will be great to see FF, DGO, canon AF come together in a more compact camera like the size of a C70. 

1 hour ago, BenEricson said:

They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

With a fairly substantial reduced AF area. Kind of a bummer in my opinion.

The the vast majority of the 250M budget of the latest 007 movie was spent on lighting, composition, blocking, camera movement, locations, sets. You could probably exchange the lens they used with almost any other lens and they would have shot great looking movie that would be completely ruined by 120hz “real motion” on some TV.

If canon released an improved C70 styled FF DGO camera they would do very well for themselves. Especially if it is priced somewhat competitively and not $10,000.

21 hours ago, kye said:

And get PDAF fixed-pattern interference in the image?  

I don't think so!

It's like you didn't even read the preceding comments?

LOL, yeah all those countless documentaries I'e watched filmed on C100, C200, C300, FX9 and on and on were unwatchable with horrible fixed pattern PDAF noise.

1 hour ago, kye said:

Yet another reason the GH5 is still a leader....

I love Panasonic, but they are missing a very important, yet still optional at a flick of a switch, feature. Hope they fix it.

I'm interested in what they do behind the sensor to give us that Venice "cinema" look. Obviously that all secret sauce. The technology gap between Sony's prosumer cameras and these super high end is narrowing. Seems to be all in the processing.

Hope they fix the telephoto camera. Seems unnecessarily gimped.

Lofty price for sure. I'm not going to lie, but the dual camera system is pretty slick and makes me want one. 160mm zoom on a drone would make for some pretty dynamic shots. The original zoom was 24-48mm. I can't wait to see some footage from this thing.

I would like to believe Nikon gave Atomos a giant middle finger by just putting ProRes RAW and ProRes HQ internal into the camera. If they continue this with a future Z6 camera I could see Nikon making inroads into the video space among professionals...maybe not as a A cam but as B cam and personal cameras.

It certainly has me interested like never before in the future of the Z mount and Nikon cameras in general. I'm glad to see it.

What else does the Cine model have for more than double the price besides ProRes?

35 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Sony Semiconductor manufactured the Z9 sensor.

So is it the same sensor in the A1? The specs seem slightly different.

50.1 vs 52.4mp

1/240 readout speed vs 1/270

4 hours ago, androidlad said:

Not yet but it's capable of outputing 8256 x 5504 3:2 open gate up to 50fps.

How do you know this? Is it actually using a Sony Sensor or is it something from tower jazz?

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

So they've compensated with a wild spec body to keep them (more than) relevant and give a reason to go with them while the 400 is still not there.

They could steal the show my releasing a better, faster, smaller 400mm f/2.8. 

4 minutes ago, Django said:

First Nikon Z I'm genuinely excited about. 8K60p / 4K120P. Internal Log, Raw, ProResRaw & ProRes 422 HQ!!

No overheating problems and good RS performance.

I mean damn could this be the full spec no compromise pro hybrid?!

Even the price is a nice surprise. Well done Nikon!

Yes very impressive. I’m so glad they put some pro codecs in this camera as it kind of pushes mirrorless cameras as a whole in that direction. I’m not a Nikon user but I was cheering them on in the livestream. The future Z6 and Z7’s could be a step up as well. Not to mention many excellent Z system lenses and potential for more with very shallow, adaptable mount.