newfoundmass

On 1/29/2023 at 2:55 AM, kaylee said:

thank you @newfoundmass, ive been busy but im trying to suss this out. this was a multicam shoot, i have to go thru all the data... ugh

one of the offending clips, below, is not hlg, right? talk to me like im 4. would i see that here?

im only seeing the 'hlg' on export, dunno why. been reading this

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/faq-how-to-fix-saturated-over-exposed-hlg-hdr-clips-in-premiere-pro-v-22/td-p/12489252

but all the settings in my projects are set to rec 709 as that thread describes, so i dunno. still working on it, just wanted to say thanks! 

obviously a general color issue upon export as described in this thread is a problem, and just confuses the issue for me, having not used premiere in a while. anyway!!!! 😡😤

 

It doesn't look it! I'd try exporting using one of Premiere's default settings, because I think the custom one you're using is probably where the issue is! 

I did a shoot over the weekend that required a lot of zooming in and out. It really made me long for the camcorder days and made me ask myself: why doesn't Panasonic release some power zoom lenses? 

I know they have a couple of lower end ones for M43 that aren't constant and are very slow, but why no higher end ones? I'd buy a 24-105 f4 power zoom lens for full frame (and a 12-100 f4 for M43) in a heartbeat. I can't be the only one that would either. It'd be the perfect lens for event shooters. 

Right now Sony is really the only one offering power zooms. I think it's time for Panny boy to get in the game. 

2 hours ago, ade towell said:

The 20-60mm lens is probably the best kit lenses I've used - well made, nicely dampened focus ring and zoom. Love that it's 20mm on the wide as opposed to standard 24mm, don't think I'll need any wider. Bit short on the long end but used it in apsc mode - quality seems a little sharper than the r6's crop mode but am only eyeballing off the screen

Couldn't agree more. It's the only kit lens I've kept instead of selling.

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Ok stupid question, I just got my panasonic s5 ii and have not read any documentation yet. But I just set the camera on a tripod flipped the screen. Put the lens to AF, camera to AFC, and focus area to human. Ok great, so now I run to the front of the camera, and there are boxes appearing around my face. But the focus does not change whatsoever. Do I need to change something else? Or do I need to actually record, or press the half shutter mode?

 

Thanks

You can go into the settings, I believe, and make it so that AF works even when not recording.

7 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

Must have something to do with the slightly different sensor variations and probably just lack of budget to really do things like make a custom lut for each model.

I can't imagine it's budget related. Wouldn't the developers probably have their own LUT for the testing phase? It is weird. Maybe they just feel like the official LUT gets people close enough that anyone using it will be tweaking it anyway?

9 hours ago, ade towell said:

I like the highlight roll off from the Emotive color Alexa conversion created by Sage who I've not seen around here for a while. It was specifically tuned for S5, S1 and S1H, wonder if it would need tweaking for S5ii

Where can one get this? 

Granted they're a retailer, but another test. Starting to think Panny (or Sigma) did something to make them work so well. 

32 minutes ago, Django said:

Getting back to Vlog, my first impressions are good. The standard "Vlog to V709" LUT inside Resolve is pretty accurate. Kind of a mild curve (I'm used to more contrast) but its a good starting point. I am surprised at what this little HEVC 4:2:0 codec can hold.

Now you see why I was surprised when people said they didn't like working with Vlog? I prefer Gamut's conversion LUT, but they all get you "in the ballpark" so to speak. It's pretty easy to get the look you're after.

4 hours ago, Django said:

Hmm wonder if that means the same holds true for native lenses also? Kinda strange, usually IBIS+OIS = best stabilisation.

I'm guessing that the lenses being manufactured by someone else (Canon) is probably why IBIS and OIS are not able to work together. I'm guessing the lens needs to communicate with the body, and it's hard to do that when you didn't manufacture/program the lens.

52 minutes ago, Django said:

You are the one in that thread that stated the official V-Log to V709 LUT was "half-assed" and that in Resolve color space transform, the conversion brought issues.

The rest of thread is people saying how exposing V-log is tricky..  and that "REC709 monitoring is trash on Panasonic".

All of that seems very specific to Panasonic / Vlog. Never heard such issues with C-Log / S-log.

All Log footage doesn't grade the same, so I'd like to see for myself. Perhaps you could provide some S5ii Vlog footage to test?

All log profiles take some time to get used to, but I really don't think Vlog is any more difficult to work with than other log profiles. I don't mean to downplay anyone's opinion in that other thread, but they're just that: someone's opinion and there's only a couple of people giving them in there. You'll find tons of folks who have differing ones. 

It's so hard to know if a camera will be "enough" to lure away users of other brands/lens mounts, but I DO think we'll see enough people switching that it WILL make a difference on Panasonic's bottom line, especially among "content creators" (I hate that term) and video pros that do marketing for companies.

The ability to shoot in 3:2 is a big selling point for the people I know in that realm, because they're creating content for multiple platforms that all favor different aspect ratios and resolutions. For those types, the combination of that, the IBIS, and the autofocus, is a really compelling combination. And the thing about them is, a lot of them aren't heavily invested in lenses for the cameras they are currently using. A lot of them may only use two or three lenses. 

My friend Josh is a A7s III shooter. He primarily uses a Tamron zoom and a few primes. He is considering jumping because he can get close to $3000 for the body alone, which would be more than enough for him to get the S5 and at least one lens, not to mention what he'd get for the E mount lenses. At the end of the day he'd probably end up with close to $4000 to work with after selling everything? In all likelihood he'd end up with more money in his pocket when all was said and done, plus have a camera that is better for his social media marketing work he does. He told me he'd miss not having 120 fps in 4K but that he also hardly ever uses it. It's one of those things he wanted badly, but in practice found he really didn't need 4x slow motion for non-profit marketing videos (shocker, I know!) and doesn't really use it much. 

When it comes to M43, I'm a little more conflicted. I think that there probably are a significant number of M43 users that see the S5 ii and feel kind of burned if they'd just purchased the GH6 last year. People can make arguments for why they shouldn't, but there absolutely are people that do feel that way and, if they'd known, probably would've held off buying the GH6 in favor of finally switching to full frame and the S5 ii when it came out. Do I think though that the S5 ii will completely cannibalize the GH line or M43? No, because there are still a lot of people that are not interested in full frame, and are very, very partial to M43. If we're being honest, Panasonic put that user base on ice for several years. Those that stuck around are their most loyal users, and I'd argue the majority of them will continue using M43 for as long as companies support it. 

I agree with @Andrew Reid though that the promise of M43 has kind of been lost. In many ways it was necessary to make the cameras bigger to support the advanced features that for a long time only M43 was capable of, but now everyone is on a pretty even playing field. To me, the way forward for M43 is to focus on making the cameras (and lenses, if possible) smaller while still maintaining the capabilities and the quality that we've come to expect. I just don't know that Panasonic sees value in that direction, given they've seemingly axed the GX line of cameras. Even today, if you could put all the capabilities of a GH5 but with updated color science and autofocus in the body of a GX camera I'd buy one. 

4 hours ago, kaylee said:

no, not at all, its actually mp4 aac h264 phone footage

idk im an idiot lol

like this?

so ive read...

i saw this and tried the lut -- worked ok but i can just make a custom adjustment layer for export to counteract the problem with likely better results. just seems so stupid smh

i WASSSS happily using resolve but ive reached the limits of what it can do on my laptop. playback was getting unbearable so i was like Lets give premiere another try 😕 

So it looks like you're trying to export the file as HLG? Is the original footage HLG? The project doesn't look like it is (at least it doesn't mention it in the project settings.) Under "Basic Video Settings" hit more and see if you can change that.

Also is there any reason you're using custom settings instead of one of the presets?

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

Is there a way Canon could break this compatibility? They would if they could.

Not really. It's pretty much out of their hands at this point. They COULD release firmware updates for lenses, but it'd be pointless and they'd never actually do it. Why bother when hardly anyone would actually install the updates? At this point the only thing that'll impact compatibility is the adapters and cameras themselves. 

Can you give us some info on your workflow? Are you working with log footage? What are your project settings? What export settings are you using? 

Olympus/OMD might technically have the best IBIS but lacks the video features of the others. The GH6 and the S5ii both are probably at the top of the pack. Really, no one else other than Olympus comes close. 

More tests with EF lenses.

The M1 Macs will be an even better value once they start slashing the prices on them. 

On full frame I think I'd have to go 35mm. The ability to switch from FF to APSC would give me the ability to use it as a 35mm and a 50mm, and those are two of my most common focal lengths. A 50mm would come close, since then I'd have some telephoto capabilities but I think the 35 would win out.

I've actually seen his videos before but didn't sub as I assumed his channel was inactive since so much time had passed since his last one I'd seen. Glad he's being more active. I think if he stays consistent he'll do well, as I concur with what you've said!

7 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I like this IBIS test. Shows that the gap between Panny and Sony is not that huge. Panny still does more warpy stuff in the corners if you go wider than 24mm and they both need a gimbal for a perfectly stable shot. Panny doesnt crop though cos frankly their e-stab is just usless, dont use it. 

The gap is pretty huge after 24mm. Sony doesn't even really look stabilized at that point. 

If you aren't moving Sony's IBIS is pretty decent. But once you get moving, you're gonna end up having problems. 

To me an APSC crop in 4K 60 isn't that big of a deal, especially as someone that likes M43. I film in APSC mode sometimes anyway to get some extra reach. It'd be nice to have the choice instead of having the crop forced on me, but from an actual user experience it very much gets an "oh well" from me. 

11 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

They can easily make a better camera, it's just very hard to make a more attractive camera.

While there absolutely are people who will remain entrenched in the Sony camp, for a lot of people a better camera IS a more attractive camera.

11 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

To each their own, but S1H has been one of my least favourite images to work with in post. That probably comes down to not enough time spent with it, but that is precisely where the FX6 hammers it - every decent editor/colourist has worked with S-log enough to be able to get a pretty decent image out of it. That matters in professional workflows, and no producer wants to hire a shooter who's going to have their post team scratching their heads or wasting time learning a whole new colour pipeline. Maybe the Panasonic CAN deliver a better image with careful grading, but 19/20 editors will deliver a better result in less time with the FX6.

You probably have more experience than I do, and it might be because I know more people using Panasonic cameras (both FF and M43), but I've really never met anyone that has found Panasonic cameras to be difficult to grade, at least not full v-log. I do know quite a few who really do not like dealing with Sony but have to because it's what they are given to work with. Most people I know who have worked with v-log will often tell me that it's their favorite form of log to grade, and that it's the easiest to get the look they want.

I do think you'd find the S5ii pretty easy to get comfortable with. Might be worth renting it for a week? It sounds kinda dumb, but there are so many little things about Panasonic cameras, like something as simple as shutter angle, that will make it hard for me to jump unless I have to. 

54 minutes ago, Al Dolega said:

I wonder if we'll see Tamron make L-mount versions of those lenses if the S5II does well. I know Sony owns a portion of Tamron so maybe they will nix that.

I too hope Tamron decides to release L mount lenses but I wouldn't hold my breath. I like Sigma a lot, but those Tamron lenses are a steal. 

32 minutes ago, barefoot_dp said:

The only way Panasonic can compete with the FX6 is on price. And it would have to be a significant difference to sway people away from the Sony. Putting all your R&D budget towards making a camera that is just as good as the FX6, just so that you can sell it for significantly less, is a hard pitch.

I don't think they're that far off from being able to EXCEED what the FX6 is capable of and at a lower price point. I'm not saying they should try to, but the gap between the S1H and the FX6 isn't THAT huge. The big difference is form factor, e-ND, and I/O. It already beats it in numerous ways, like resolution and dynamic range. 

People act like Sony is unbeatable, but the tech gap and the headstart they had is narrowing more and more. We're at a point where even Nikon and Fuji are creating powerful video tools, while Canon has started becoming more and more aggressive with its video features and pricing. Whether it's in the mirrorless market or the cine market, Sony isn't invulnerable.