newfoundmass

You can get decent stills from 4K video, it's just not a reliable way to do so, especially for action sports. Even with the best auto focus it'll be hard to get frames without some motion blur.

After my close friend decided to upgrade to the Lumix S5 II X he gave me an incredible deal on his Lumix S5 that I couldn't pass up. As a result I just finished packing up my trusty GH5, 12-35mm mk II, 35-100mm mk I, 25mm, and 14mm to ship off to MPB. For the first time in nearly a decade I will no longer have any M43 cameras or lenses. I think my time in the system has finally come to an (unplanned) end. 😞

I'm feeling some kind of way about it right now, honestly. I still believe in the promise of M43, I just don't know that Panasonic will ever realize it or if the market will ever be there to make it viable. It's a damn shame, honestly. I'll be happy with my full frame cameras, and having three of the same bodies will make things a bit easier for me, but I still can't help but wish there was a professional level compact M43 camera that could fit my needs and fit in with my two S5 bodies. I just don't see it happening. 

I had planned to always have at least one M43 camera in my kit. Eventually I was going to upgrade to the GH6 in a couple years, once they were even more affordable on the used market, but I couldn't pass on another S5 with kit lens for $750, so plans changed. It just didn't make sense to keep the GH5 and follow through with my original plans anymore, as these three S5 bodies will get me through until I can snag some S5 II bodies in a couple years when people upgrade to the latest camera.

The GH5 was a total game changer for me and my work. I'm sad to see it go, because in many ways it did things that I never thought a camera would be able to do. It really cannot be overstated how much the IBIS changed things for people like me. I no longer had to set up a cumbersome shoulder rig, I could simply hold it and get steady shots even as I rushed around a wrestling ring and dodged people flying all over the place! Life goes on though, I guess.

I was looking at MPB just now, looking for lenses for my S5, and boy has the selection declined in the last couple months. There used to be plenty copies of every lens but now they don't have certain lenses at all or just one or two. 

I suspect it's a sign that the S5ii and S5iiX have done well and caused people to go out and buy a lot of lenses. 

14 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

I love this approach. My mentality has really been shifting. To one of maximizing and being content with what I have. Some gear upgrades are awesome. A good lens. C-stands. Diffusion fabrics and floppies. Quality audio gear. I’m tired of looking towards the latest and greatest camera. Because the pursuit of that is endless. Where does it stop?  It doesn’t. You get a perfectly great camera, and then a “better” one comes out and you just have to upgrade. And that mentality gets pushed so hard on YouTube. Even on this forum sometimes. I’d prefer to just get to know my current camera better and become better in skill. I’ve been seeing this happen. What I get out of my Nikon Z6 8-bit flat footage is better than what I used to get out of 10 bit NLOG Prores. I’m not going to upgrade my camera for a while. 

When I sold most of my M43 gear to get the S5 bodies I was very briefly bummed when the S5ii was announced. But then I remembered that I basically paid slightly more to get two S5 bodies than what I'd have paid to get one S5ii. I think I paid about $2100 total for both, after selling the extra accessories I didn't need that came with them? And those two, along with my GH5, will be a powerful trio for years to come, especially when it comes to event videography.

I got the most out of my small budget and couldn't be happier. And when the time comes to upgrade, I'll do the same and be just as happy because I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a camera that immediately lost hundreds in value once I opened the box. Waiting two or three years to buy a S5ii or S5iix for %50 less than what I'd have paid for it brand new sounds like a pretty good plan to me! I'll give them a nice new home and lease on life! 🙂

14 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

S5 user here and a bit late to the party (been using the camera!) and only just aware for the S5ii. I am not much of a technical type but have enough interest to skim read through this whole topic.

Cut to the chase, from what I have read I am not seeing a compelling reason at present for me to upgrade to an S5ii. Would the forum agree given what I say below?

I use Cine D2 profile a lot, have little interest in LUTs and the like (at the moment anyway), find the AF on the S5 generally good enough for my needs (though something a bit more reliable in certain situations would be nice), love the image quality,  look and ergonomics of the S5, still shoot mostly in HD (though guess that will change) and audio is very important. As an audio person generally I don't get why people are so excited about 96KHz as it is way OTT and unnecessary; 24bit is way more important. I mostly record audio to a Tascam device (XLR) mounted under the camera with a minijack output of it into the camera as a backup (currently on a three mic setup - COS-11D radio mic and a stereo DPA spaced pair).. My whole setup is designed so I can carry the camera with one hand and do everything alone, so the DPAs and radio receiver are mounted on top of the camera. Have the 20-60mm kit lens and a 50mm fixed one but mainly use the former for its versatility. 

 

As someone that is using two S5 bodies and a GH5 for a multicam set up...

If you don't find yourself in a situation where you're struggling with something that the S5ii would do better, then there isn't really a compelling reason to "upgrade."

My plan is to upgrade to the S5ii (or S5iix) in a couple years, when a successor to it or the S1/S1H is released and the used price goes down. I made a post a few weeks back talking about how I am done buying new and am perfectly content with being a generation behind, because all of these cameras are so good at this point that it doesn't really matter. Yeah, there are definitely quality of life upgrades but none of them are worth the cost for me. The S5 will produce an excellent image for years to come, and ultimately that's what matters to me. When the used price becomes compelling enough I'll start planning to upgrade, but I'm done investing thousands of dollars into camera bodies that won't retain their value much at all. I'll let others take that hit and just wait. 🙂

Hey @Eric Matyas! Are these able to be used at a public event without a license from ASCAP, BMI, etc? 

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Not connected with anything above, I just cancelled my preorders for BOTH S5iiX's.

Nothing to do with the camera per se, but I came to the conclusion that if I was going to be shooting 6k 30p 3:2 on the the things, then why not just stick with the S1R's which do 10 bit 5k 30p 3:2?

OK, they crop pixel:pixel but that does not bother me and OK, they don't shoot log either, but they produce a really nice clean result in the Flat profile that I am used to working with.

AF not needed as I have the S5ii for that.

So why spend approx 3000-3500 euros to change?

Well I decided it wasn't worth it and actually I gain/retain the 47mp S1R stills capability so that's something.

I'm just going to carry on with what I have the rest of this year and wait until there is any sign of an S1R and an S1H replacement and then make any future decisions.

So it's back to a pair of S1R's for hybrid on me at all times plus the S5ii purely video on gimbal/tripod for entrances, exits, couple and static stuff with the S1H purely video on tripod for just ceremonies and speeches, ie, most of the day I'll only be working with 2 units, occasionally 3 and at certain times, 4, but then 2 will be static at that point so other than the set up and switching them on, 2 really.

I just bought (for 70 euros!!) however, a 4 wheel cart with a handle that I can load all my gear into straight out of the back of my camper/motorhome when at gigs and just trawl the whole lot in; tripods, light stands, light, power bank, extension cables, camera, - the lot...in one single trip. Saves 3-4 trips! Now that IS a worthwhile purchase. Especially as I have gone all in on my lighting now.

You're like a roller coaster, I love it!

So... what is the deal with DP Review? Content is still being published to the site, and there was even a new video posted about the Lumix S5IIX.

Anyone have any idea what is going on?

My general rule, as someone that likes to spend as little money as possible, is to run the camera into the ground and only upgrade when it stops working or it no longer can do what you need it to do. I'm still running a GH5 and don't see a scenario where I "upgrade" for at least another year. There just isn't a need to. The image I get from it is more than enough, and the stabilization is still great. Those are my primary needs.

I think Nikon is a fine system to invest in, and I think they are one of the most forward thinking companies when it comes to video right now. And with lenses you'll still get a decent amount back if you decide to sell them. 

Just my two cents!

It's really hard not to root for Nikon given how hard they are working to stay relevant and trying to carve out a piece of the video pie. I am not in a position to switch from Lumix and the L-mount, but if I were in a position to do so Nikon would be the favorite. 

The thing is though that Lumix will release something within the next year that will make me want to stay, haha. 

I do hope though that Nikon is rewarded for the effort they've put in. They've definitely been amongst the most forward thinking companies since the full frame mirrorless transition, which is even more notable given how it feels like some companies are taking steps backwards (:cough: Sony :cough:)

This is really unfortunate.

DPReview seems to still be active. It's strange. They even posted a video (not by Chris & Jordan) on YouTube. 

7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Really? I don't find any workaround ridiculous unless to the manufacturer, I do agree.

I think it's ridiculous that people need to even come up with their own solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. That's just me though!

14 hours ago, ntblowz said:

This guy managed to get 4K60p recording from 40min to over 1hr 40min with this fan kit

Lol, this stuff is ridiculous. 

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

So 4 then.

Sony should just go all the way and claim something truly ridiculous, like 20 stops.

Sony always cracks me up with their stabilization claims. 7 stops!

Yeah, it's probably a better idea to have two bodies with dedicated lenses instead of switching them. 

I think 35mm is a very good choice because you can also switch into APS-C mode and turn it into a 50mm, effectively giving you two focal lengths with one lens.

17 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

I agree.

Whenever I look back at video I shot in the past on VHS-C, DV and HDV tape, plus a variety of small-sensor cameras (like HX9V and FZ100), and compare it to 1080p let alone 4k from my Pana G9, I'm reminded how much video consumer/prosumer quality has dramatically improved over time...(as have camera stabilisation and the displays we view it on).

It's funny, because I see so many people who won't even consider cameras for one reason or another, when I could do virtually everything I do with my S5 bodies with a couple GH3 bodies and still be very pleased with the results. I'd obviously have to overcome the limitations when it came to autofocus and stabilization, but from a pure image stand point they'd still be more than enough. Upscaled to 4K for streaming it'd be nearly indistinguishable from real 4K (see: Nigel Barros going back to the GH3 for the millionth time.) I have the luxury of having "better" cameras but I don't NEED better cameras. Most of us don't.

4 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

thanks! will check - but video is quite important for me here

Honestly almost any camera released these days will have good video, especially for the kind of work you mentioned. In the grand scheme of things, when someone says they prefer the video quality of one camera over another the difference isn't THAT huge. Not trying to speak for @MrSMW, obviously, he might disagree, but just as a general rule any camera you get today will be more than enough when it comes to image. I mean a hacked GH2 or a GH3 both can give you lovely 1080p images and those cameras are well over 10 years old.

Nothing will ever beat the ergonomics of a camcorder when it comes to video. If there was a competitively priced M43 or APS-C camcorder I'd use them in a heartbeat over mirrorless cameras. Panasonic tried with the DVX200, but I couldn't justify spending over twice as much for the same specs as a GH5.

If you're looking for a camcorder I suggest going with one that has a 1" sensor. There aren't a ton of budget friendly options though. Most companies have kinda given up on camcorders.

It's the sensor size and the ability to change lenses. They also don't tend to retain their value, whereas lenses do and can be used on multiple bodies.

4 hours ago, Stefano Capasso said:

some people says af in s5 is horrible, some says it is ok..for me if it comparable to xt3 i can live with it, not the best but i have used it most of the time satsfactory

The original S5 is probably the best value out there today, especially if you buy it used.

The X-T3 has better autofocus but people that say the S5's autofocus is "horrible" only say that because they won't accept anything that isn't Canon or Sony level or they didn't take the time to learn its quirks. It is pretty reliable if you are doing talking head type work and if there's decent contrast between the subject and the background. Good lighting also is a big plus. Pulsing is pretty minimal.  It also has excellent focus assist tools for focusing manually. A great option!

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Love these head-butting arguments... people must embrace detail and exigence on the right approach to adopt.

Less is not enough. Period.

 

:- )

Honestly I hate them, they are repetitive and accomplish nothing.

It might not be as good as Sony's but it's very good and will get better in firmware (it already has, according to The Hybrid Shooter.)

No camera's auto focus is perfect, not even Sony. In Gerald's NAB video released yesterday there were multiple times when the video was out of focus and they were using an FX30.

It really is a decent little mic. I think it'll serve you well, and you can tweak it to make it sound better.

The Panasonic will be better in low light than either of these. And I still find Sony colors to be meh. But you really can't go wrong with any of these.