Django

Wait until Z8 gets announced and I suspect used Z9's will pop up again although a new Z8 + grip and full warranty might still be a better package. Z8's are expected to start shipping before the end of the month..

FWIW I tried a Z7ii yesterday just to get a feel for Nikon mirrorless (Z8 being the first Z cam that ticks my boxes) and although it felt extremely rugged and I LOVE that they haven't switched to flip-out displays, the ergonomics were a little weird, and I noticed a really annoying lag on the touch screen. I'm assuming these quirks are ironed out on Z9 and hence Z8 though..

..not to mention current affordability of the FS7 vs other options.  Pro rigged out video/cine cams can be expensive.

But FS7 is closer to a cine cam with an ENG form factor than a "camcorder" which implies a more compact form factor with built-in EVF, zoom and mic.

Options kinda dried up but if sensor size, lens specs etc don't matter, surely there are many viable budget options left especially on used market. 

DVX200 is definitely the last pro model of that category I was genuinely interested in but yeah it was pretty expensive at launch and still goes for 2 to 3 grand. I still kinda want one and wish Panny would make a sequel although extremely doubtful at this point.

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

You have to look closely but it’s that waffa theeen Megadap E mount to Z AF adapter and it changes a lot for me.

 

I was unaware of this smart adapter, very interesting especially the thinness!

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

If the Z8 does indeed turn out to be a form factor reduced Z9 with a 25-30% price reduction too then I’m probably in.

Dimensions: 144×118×83mm | 5.6×4.6×3.2in

Weight: under 1kg

Definitely reduced from Z9 but way chunkier then a Z6/Z7 or even most mirrorless.

SAR did some comparisons and it's not too far from a D850 which imo is kinda great. 

I really miss DSLR type ergonomics, minus the weight (rumour has it uses some kind of carbon fiber compound).

1 hour ago, wolf33d said:

I have been using an R5 happily for years never got a heating issue even once. In which way the Z8 would kill the R5?

Figure of speech. There simply hasn't been until now an R5 competitor, i.e FF 45MP 8K Raw internal camera in the $4.5K range. And the Z8 could trump it thanks to its stacked sensor performance and little big things like ProRes, full HDMI, unlimited recording, thermal management etc.

Of course all this remains to be seen, and I'm sure an R5 mk2 is planned but I just think its very good for us consumers that Nikon is back challenging Canon again.

6 hours ago, markr041 said:

Just to be clear, you want one original nongraded clip from the video (Slog3), or the whole video rerendered without transforming (grading) so it is just the Slog3 version?

Whole video ungraded would be great if not too much of a bother! 

I have FX30 Slog3 footage but not at ISO2500 in lowlight and would love to test out grading myself so thanks in advance!

Yeah they definitely need to implement a Zlog2.

If you're a solo shooter doing events/sports you might be shooting video and cannot switch to stills at a specific moment so grabbing (8K) stills is a very handy option. @gt3rs has been doing this a lot with R5/R5C on his extreme sports and safari shoots and the stills look amazing. 

This Z8 if rumoured specs and price are correct is really shaping up to be the R5/R5C killer from Nikon. 

that does look really clean! also the 15mm f1.4 looks like an ideal compact low-light wide angle lens. really a win combo.

@markr041 any chance you could upload that clip in Slog3 on Vimeo for download? 🙏

This isn't a Z6. It sits way above just under Z9 which it shares basically everything as far as specs, but in a Z6/Z7 type body:

Sensor: 45.7MP (stacked)

ISO range: 64-25,600.

20 fps (120fps in JPEG mode).

5-axis in-body stabilizations: 6 stops.

Shutter speed: 1/32000 – 900s.

Electronic shutter only.

Autofocus: 493 AF points.

HEIF 10-bit support.

Video: 8.3k @60p.

3.2″ tilting LCD screens.

EVF: same as the Z9 (3690k-dot OLED).

Memory cards: CFExpress + SD.

Dust/drip resistant: same as the Nikon D850.

Dimensions: 144×118×83mm | 5.6×4.6×3.2in.

Weight: under 1kg.

Price: €4,599

Very interesting camera imo. Especially if they include RAW/ProRes. If they don't drop the ball somewhere (like overheat issues), it could even be the cam that makes me go back to Nikon!

I'm not sure how FX30's video lowlight capabilities effectively can translate to shooting photos on a D500 but I do agree that indoor sports shouldn't be the most challenging light conditions unless you are shooting at very slow aperture and/or the gym has extremely poor lighting for some reason. In that case, the solution imo is to use faster glass, improve the lighting and/or indeed get better lowlight sensor. 

Regardless, if you do need a hybrid, that kinda rules out FX30, especially for sports. XH2S would be a much better hybrid for fast action and lowlight imo. S5ii and R6ii are also solid choices in that $2.5K budget.

Doesn't sound like nitpicking to me but rather valid concerns. Every time someone brings criticism over anything on YT now people call it clickbait but this guy also praises the camera where it shines so I really don't think its that. @hyalinejim has had the S5ii for a while too and agrees with him so again seems like genuine observations.

Anyways, I don't have a horse in the race but I do think its pretty widely accepted that Sony is the new king of AF (especially now with all the crazy AI processing). I still prefer Canon UI but that's entirely personal. Panny is making breakthroughs within the Panny system and will surely improve over time, but Sony level it is most certainly not as of today. Of course YMMV depending on your overall video AF expectations..

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But the AF from a Panasonic S5mk2 is so close to Sony's performance, that I wouldn't let a small difference in AF performance be your dominant concern when choosing between them. 

Nah dude. The AF on S5ii is still a gen1 PDAF. It has numerous issues and is nowhere close to Sony's. Here are a few of those issues from a guy that has had the S5ii since launch:

@Attila Bakos Sorry to hear that and it does sound like they are trying to deflect actual testing but if the problem comes from XH2S, then surely it isn't really Atomos's responsibility but rather Fuji's to provide a fix? In any case shame to hear RAW is pretty much unusable in this cam.. especially considering it is the only way to circumvent the heavy processing and Xtrans CFA issues.

5 hours ago, Stefano Capasso said:

For the mirrorless with sony i read lots of complain on iq, expecially on colours, and overheating in general.

That's a bit of an old trope. Sony color science has made tons of progress and now with chunky 10-bit codecs you can get really nice IQ. As for overheating, not a problem on FX series which have active cooling.

AF is definitely ahead of Fuji/Panny.

I'd still recommend XH2S if you're on Fuji system. It has the best (stacked) sensor out of those cams.  6.2K Open Gate with very low rolling shutter and ProRes. The AF & IQ will be a major upgrade from XT3. Film simulations should take care of you since you don't wanna color grade. 

FX30 features might not be that useful to you if you're not into grading or don't need TC etc. In that case you'll probably benefit more from the XH2S sensor, resolution & codecs.

That said, you can't really go wrong with any of those 3 cameras, definitely top choices in that $2.5K budget range.

4 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Ha I get it! But I’d be shooting fast moving athletes indoors - never had luck with APSC. Was hoping the fx30 would be good for me but video after video notes that you must properly light your scene as you’ve said here. I’ve realized for my needs I won’t be lighting so an a7iv is a better value it seems. 

Keep in mind A7IV has very poor RS (26.8ms) so not really ideal for sports/action. 4K60p also has a 1.5x crop so it basically becomes APS-C & 4K120 is absent. If you add to that the overheating that makes A7IV a rather poor choice if you're planning on shooting beyond 4K30p..

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

FS7 has probably shot more professional content in recent years than anything else. 

The FS7 was absolutely dominant in the mid/low end market until just a few short years ago. 

And the C300mk2 was the #2 player behind it. 

People playing in the no budget mirrorless world are very lucky to now have cameras such as the FX30 that outperforms the image quality from a FS7. (but no NDs, no SDI, etc... still a lot of reasons to prefer a FS7)

And the Alexa when it first came out certainly was a big game changer in allowing to shoot in low light, vs what they typically used beforehand. 

Oh I know bro, I own an FS7 so I know its a workhorse. But FF and even APS-C mirrorless have more refreshed sensors so not really a surprise they handle lowlight or DR better. I still think the FS7 has a certain mojo to its IQ, just like older Canon does despite being inferior on paper/charts. And of course the Alexa is already a cult classic still in heavy use despite more recent ARRI cams with higher resolution/specs. 

2 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

What lens would you get for lowlight situations ? Are you always lighting ?

No I don't use much lighting when run & gunning. Most low light I do is concerts and events and I'll use the available lighting for realistic ambience. I mostly shoot fast prime lenses so not a big issue. On Canon I'll usually go with the Canon 50mm F1.2 & 35mm F1.4 wide open. On Sony I shoot with the Zeiss 35mm F1.4 & Batis prime series. And for zoom the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8. I also don't mind crushing blacks and using a little NR. Whatever works. 

If I get the FX30 I'd surely go for those new 7artisans T1.05 cine primes I was talking about the other day.  

I can understand the FX3's uncropped 4K120 being a clear advantage but the "I like FF look better" sounds pretty arbitrary. YMMV.

Personally I like the FX30 better for video because the 6K oversampled video, 26MP stills, S35 & FF third party lens support (with speed booster), the more usable dual ISO range, the less aggressive NR, and of course 50% more affordable price tag. In fact with the last firmware update, chances are it is going to be my next camera (just waiting on the next few Sony releases of which another FX body is rumoured to be coming by this summer with the new AI chip/features).

By the way, was surprised to see French pétanque being played in NYC although I guess it is in fact its Italian bocce cousin!

3 hours ago, 92F said:

So a film shot in 24p on Osmo Pocket on your weekend purchases is more cinematic than a film shot with a Full Frame camera in 50 or 60p in Log...?!?

yep 24p footage will aways look more cinematic than 60p footage as far as motion no matter the camera, sensor size etc. not sure what is so hard for you to understand.

3 hours ago, 92F said:

I think you should open a new topic on it... and have a good day

No, I'm just replying to people like you that keep quoting me on the subject. 

It's ok btw, we don't have to agree but if this topic upsets you so much, just stop arguing about it like the other guy did. we had already moved on until you came back to it..

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

That youtube video above is almost unworthy of being posted by a beloved forum member such as Django. "Biggest flaw", what clickbait nonsense. Lowlight on the FX30, as we have noted before, is about one stop less than the modern FF counterparts. So it is a lowlight achiever in S35 terms, better than C300II, than FS7. No mushyness but "grain". Great lowlight camera. No mushyness is a novelty, not many cameras offer in that price range, nor timecode, nor pro reliability and such.

Now, C70 in RAWlight is the overall lowlight cinema champ after the classic Alexa Alev sensor and very close regarding quality of colour rendition, latitude and dynamic range, if I trust the judgement from german testsite slashcam and heresay from dop buddies. Same sensor as C300III. For the money, trust Ironfilm and others, FX30 is not to beat as a pro S35 B or A video cam in the Sony system.

Well sorry to disappoint ya mate, but what isn't clickbait on YT these days? 🙃 Title aside, I think his point is fairly valid, let's face it S35 has generally been at a disadvantage when it comes to low-light vs FF so having access to these new APS-C T1.05 lenses can certainly help mitigate low-light and shallow DoF when compared to FF. Yet another solution may be to use a speed booster.

Also C300ii & FS7 are fairly old cameras, even the Alexa Classic/Mini was never really considered a "lowlight cinema champ". It gets noisy above 800 despite its huge latitude. Its a camera meant for controlled environments. In this sense, the FX30 could potentially beat it at its 2500 higher base ISO. But the Alexa sensor uses DGO tech not dual base ISO so really apples and oranges. And the C70's DGO handles differently than the Alexa ALEV, cleaner shadows but harsher highlight rolloff.

I'm also not sure what you mean by FX30 is one stop less than "modern FF counterpart"?  Because the A7S/FX3/FX6 FF sensor surely is more than one stop better at high ISO with its 12800 higher base ISO vs 2500. Depends what value we're comparing.

Now of course in the end noise tolerance is subjective and some cameras have more pleasant noise than others. NR is also a big factor. One positive thing about the FX30 is it apparently has less aggressive NR than its FF Sony counterparts.

8 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Soap Opera aside, what’s the thoughts on an fx30 for situations where you will not be lighting? Is the ISO performance good enough to fill in lowlight?  Obviously it doesn’t rival the fx3 but is it close enough that it’s usable ?

Its really going to depend on your lens choice and at what frame rate you're capturing. 4K60/4K120 is going to be a challenge in lowlight, especially with slower glass. Fast glass and/or a speed booster can help mitigate lowlight performance. I've noticed quite a couple FX30 users have been pairing it with 7Artisans new affordable APS-C T/1.05 cine prime lenses for such purposes:

not even tom cruise can approve !

Continuing its steady avalanche of camera roll-outs, Sony is expected to release 5 new E-mount cameras this year alone, including some sort of cine/video centric camera later this Spring and an FX10 by this summer with the same 26MP FX30 sensor but with AI processor (expect ZV-E1 features) plus an added mechanical shutter but no IBIS at an entry-level price.

An oversampled 6K sensor should make better sense for the AI and stab cropping stuff.

7 hours ago, 92F said:

There are many factors that make a movie aesthetic
Lens / light / sensor / Log or raw / shutter speed / framing / story / good actors / good direction of actors / editing / ... so the 24 p, the aspect ratio is quite negligible for the viewer.

 

Those attributes go without saying but I disagree about motion being "negligible for the viewer". 

If you have a +120hz TV from Samsung or LG its quite easy for you to test: activate clear motion (which artificially doubles the frame rate) on your favourite indie classic and watch it get ruined with disgraceful soap-opera effect. No lighting, framing, color grading or acting will save it from that.

That being said, not everything needs to be "cinematic". Adding faux widescreen black bars is a form of frame crippling. I'm actually a fan of 3:2 & 4:3 open gate. Its quite refreshing not having the height cropped. Vertical makes sense on a handheld phone, that's about it. Fortunately open gate allows multi aspect ratios so its a win-win.

Hopefully more manufacturers start implementing open-gate on video centric cameras. It has more uses than anamorphic support.