Nathan Gabriel

I don't own a bmpcc 4k, but I would definitely contribute to this Kickstarter (1) in hopes that the tech eventually makes it's way over to Panasonic cameras and (2) even if it doesn't, I'd love to just say thanks for the gx85 cinelikeD hack.

Okay so I have a buyer for my kidney. Now when is the lens coming out? 

@IronFilm wow I just did some research and you are totally right! I had no idea. I was certain the most recent Jim Jarmusch films were actually film, but apparently they were digital. It seems like just a few years ago it was a totally different story. 

12 hours ago, kye said:

I mention $50K because I thought that was expensive enough to distance it from what we're talking about (mainly GH5 / GH5s / BMPCC4K / A7 series) which aren't anywhere near $50K.  

I think you're right to emphasize incredibly low budget films. Given the amount of excitement that the gx85 generated on this forum I think a lot of people here work on productions well below a $50k budget. Casey Neistat is a great name drop for a situation D filmmaker because his work is definitely cinematic, whatever that means. His frequent user of time lapse allows him to inject high quality images, in terms of MP and dynamic range, into his vlog. I also think there are many situation D/C filmmakers who are not vloggers. I have a friend who primary produces music videos. While he likes to control everything, he often works with artists who have limited availability and don't have the patience or control of actual actors. Because of these and other factors he adopts a situation D style of filming. Likewise in some documentary settings I've felt that using a larger camera or additional lighting would have really changed the behavior of the people I was filming.

With respect to situation A, I think it's easy to find examples of people working with budgets less than $50k. The classic example is Robert Rodriguez's El Mariachi, which was shot on a $7000 budget. My favorite director, Maya Deren worked with relatively small budgets. Both of these directors shot film rather than digital, but these are very dated references. Personally I still get the impression that most indie situation A folks prefer film over digital, but I'm also fairly out of the game at this point. @IronFilm made a good point because the second I hear someone's shooting digital on a budget I assume they are in situation D/C, but they may very well be in situation A from your perspective. I like the idea of developing different categories of filmmakers' needs, but the more I think about it, it seems impossible. Maybe we can make relative assessments such as: person 1 works more in situation A-like settings than person 2. These relativistic claims could be made without committing to person 1 being considered a situation A filmmaker in all contexts... Have you ever read Wittgenstein? Trying to reduce a concept or phenomenon to a set of necessary and sufficient conditions is almost always problematic.

I've really got to find a way to write shorter responses. Sorry again.

15 hours ago, jonpais said:

who is we? I use them all the time.

My bad I should have said "I" instead of "we". Personally I have never been a fan of autofocus (and don't you use veydras? In fact, when I was thinking about getting my first autofocus lens, you specifically said you couldn't test the sigma 16mm autofocus because you don't like using autofocus). I guess part of me has this obtuse attitude in which I honestly enjoy and prefer manual focusing regardless of the rare situations where autofocus might provided marginally better results. I do enjoy the IBIS on my gx85, but I don't think it is desirable for gimbal use or car mounts. I know you've said otherwise. My point was not to say that AF and IBIS are never useful, but that there are some times when I'd intentionally avoid using them. IBIS can't be fully turned off which can be problematic for some. AF I simply never use (like it's been more than 5 years since I've used AF in anything other than my smartphone and GoPro). At the very least, IBIS is far less important to me than battery life or an articulating screen (if the gh5s were the same price as the pocket, if take it's better life and screen over the pockets codec. But this is a controversial preference I'm sure). I guess I'm open to being converted on the issue of IBIS (pm me some comparisons if you like). AF and IBIS seem nice for quick travel photos with the family, but frivolous for the pocket's intended use. Sorry for the long wandering response.

16 hours ago, Aussie Ash said:

A very good article by Frank Glencairn on the new camera

https://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/why-the-new-pocket-cinema-camera-2-0-isnt-actually-a-successor-of-the-original-pocket-and-why-it-doesnt-mater/

I think Glencairn really nailed it when discussing AF and IBIS. Unlike battery life and a fully articulating screen, AF and IBIS are features that we often intentionally avoid using. 

On 2/17/2018 at 3:52 AM, Stab said:

Yes but no way that the first camera carrying this sensor will be a GHx camera. This tech is too good to put into a 2500 euro prosumer cam. It will most likely make it's debute in a new Varicam or be called Panasonic Space 3000 CAM.

Why not put the OPF-CMOS in the GH6? The internal ND and Global Shutter that it allows would allow the GH6 to really stomp on its competition. The GH5 ergonomics and recording features are already so good that improving the sensor seems like the best and most natural way forward. If they can nail down a cost effective manufacturing process for the OPF-CMOS with the GH6, then rolling it out on their bigger cinema cameras will be that much easier. Furthermore, isn't the GH5s already "canabalizing" dedicated cinema cameras? Panasonic does not seem too worried about it. They can always cripple the V-log if they are that worried about their dedicated cinema cameras. 

On 4/15/2018 at 5:22 PM, TwoScoops said:

 

 

This is a portrait I took with the Voigtlander 17.5mm and GH4 a couple of years ago. With all these cool M43 cameras out/on the horizon I wish I'd kept the Voigty set now. . . and added the 10.5.

Do you remember if this photo was wide open or stopped down? Why did you end up selling the voigtlanders?

Has anyone compared the voigtlander to the much cheaper SLR Magic 17mm t1.6? I've found one lab test, but I'd love to hear from someone who has real world experience. I use the SLR Magic all the time and it's really difficult for me to imagine needing shallower depth of field. However I've never really spent time shooting full frame wide open. I will say that I've used 4x5 box cameras where it is easy to get razor thin depth of field and it looks terrible because almost nothing is in focus. I always thought high iso performance rather than shallow depth of field was the bigger issue for MFT. I do have the voigtlander 25mm f0.95 and I rarely feel the need to shoot wide open with it. Here's the comparison for the 17mm's that I mentioned: 

Can we stop down voting every post that can be remotely interpreted as critical? Everyone knows and agrees this is a revolutionary camera.

Didn't the black magic micros have global shutters?

3 minutes ago, Tone1k said:

Both worlds benefit from SDI at really no penalty.

Really? What about the factor of convince for consumers who are more likely to have HDMI cables than SDI? Think of anyone who is coming from Panasonic or Sony hybrids, they'll all be used to HDMI.

18 hours ago, Tone1k said:

Please don't tell me there are Vloggers out there that would shoot 4k60p RAW! 

We shoot a lot of higher end TVC's / docs on the Alexa Mini and even then shoot ProRes. 

Don't get me wrong, RAW is great, but no vlogger needs it. 

ProRes to SD Cards is all a vlogger needs. 

My editing machine has really slow read write for SD and cfast cards (because my card reader uses a usb2 standard for it's connection to the motherboard), but it also has fast usb3 connections. If I needed really fast turnaround, which I don't, I could see myself going with USB-C SSDs just for the faster transfer, or possibly editing the video without even copying it to my internal hard drive. This would have nothing to do with recording raw, but I could see it as a reason vloggers might go with USB-C drives over SD cards. But maybe it's cheaper to invest in an external USB 3 card reader. I'm not sure how it would all work out. Maybe I could already edit directly from SD cards despite the slow read since so much of the project gets loaded into memory. Anyone have experience editing directly from their recording media?

9 hours ago, Tone1k said:

Are you saying that Blackmagic  are not in the Pro level of market because of their price or picture quality? 

We need to change our thinking as to who a camera is aimed at thanks to BM. Are you saying the Pocket 4K is aimed at amateurs because of its price alone? I'd say it's not based on it offering 4K RAW, phantom powered XLR, High level flavours of ProRes etc. Surely an amature doesn't need features like that? 

Any camera company who is smart will choose SDI over HDMI. SDI is a far superior connection and its locking function is critical for any work in the field. SDI can also be found on small Sony camcorders so not sure you can say it's 'too good' for BM. HDMI is a home media connection, was never designed to be used in the field at all! 

I agree with John, I would buy the Ninja V if it had SDI, without it, I won't consider it. 

I think the pocket 4k is intended to deliver professional level quality, which it will. But given it's priced at $1300 and had been marketed at vloggers, I don't think it's being marketed for the traditional/typical professional. Think about how they have emphasized the pocket 4k's microphones, which no traditional professional would use. While the camera can definitely work for a cheap studio set up, I think it can really capture market share from Panasonic and Sony prosumers, and that's a really big market.

I've been really confused by people pitching the pocket 4k as a vlogging camera. But I think I'm starting to understand the idea. Personally, I don't really watch YouTube. So I thought it was basically just people like Logan Paul making light of suicide or PewDiePie being anti semitic. However, I then thought about stuff that I've seen some of my past girlfriend watch. There are a lot of fashion and make-up vloggers who really need incredibly high quality images even though they are basically running the channel on their own. Same thing for food and travel vloggers. No one wants to travel to the Rift Valley, Grand Canyon, Colosseum or Great Wall and capture anything less than the best. The price tag along with things like the low light capability mean that semi professionals, who might have more knowledge about fashion or travel than video, can capture incredible video even if they don't know how to or have the ability to light their scene. I'd bet that they could make great user of the baked in lut capabilities as well. 

I'm not trying to suggest that prosumer vloggers are the primary target audience of the pocket 4k. But I do think that using an HDMI port and also the USB-C connection make the camera accessible to users from a big market that companies like BM don't typically get to tap into. I'm really excited not just for the camera itself, but also to see who uses it and what they produce. If travel vloggers start using the pocket 4k, I might actually start going to their channels instead of watching national geographic reruns. (Though YouTube could certainly improve it's codec)

Just my 2 cents. I understand that there are good reasons to prefer SDI over HDMI.

Does anyone have experience using Resolve in Linux? How smoothly does it run? Does it have limited video codecs in Linux? Or just any of behaviour that you wouldn't expect?

1 hour ago, anonim said:

Dealing with different shooting situations (just today I was in such complex one - tight indoor and extremely spacial outdoor) I realized that I'm most satisfied and mostly covered with such solution: two cameras, both with one prime on it - (utra)wide and portrait. (M43 system is especially great for easy accomplishing such choice.)

BTW I had SLR Magic 10mm and Voigtlander 42.5mm for my task - both, of course, extremely recommended for BMPCC...

Do you know how the quality of the SLR Magic 10mm compares to their 17mm? I have the SLR Magic 17 and it's nice, but it doesn't come close to the quality of my voigtlander.

On 4/12/2018 at 4:21 AM, Chhatrapal said:

I am an indie filmmaker, I shot my first feature on Sony HVR-FZ 1, back in 2009 and a year later Canon 5D disrupted the market. We toiled hard to get over harsh video look and deep DOF of HVR Z1 and then 5D made us look like fools.

When I heard they had the GH5s in mind even before the launch of GH5, I felt cheated... [bmpcc 4k is the most amazing thing to ever exist]

Thanks for sharing a really interesting perspective. As a hobbyist, whose only done a couple paid gigs (for God's sake use rentals), I've had almost the opposite perspective. It's difficult to feel cheated because there are so many good options. During my undergrad I did a minor in film just because it was something I enjoyed doing with my spare time. The best camera I could afford for personal use was an Olympus e-pl2 which had 720p 30fps as it's highest resolution and frame rate. Despite the garbage codec, I was able to adapt an old Minolta 58/1.4 and leave my school's cameras in the dust when it came to shallow depth of field. After the gh4 came out, I was able to pick up a cheap second hand gh3 and most recently a gx85 (hacked with cinelikeD). The quality of footage that I get today was unimaginable 10 years ago. I understand that it is really difficult to support yourself as an independent film maker on a budget (i know the limitations of my talents and wouldn't dream of trying to make it. So seriously, proper respect to everyone out there grinding). If you need absolutely the best quality possible while maintaining a budget, I think the market is a catch 22. There will always be a new bit of technology that ups the game. However, if you're focused on narrative and can do without Arri like quality, these revolutionary innovations are amazing to watch. From my perspective, I was saving every penny for the chance to buy a gh5s (which I wanted but certainly didn't NEED) and suddenly the bmpcc 4k promises better quality at half the price! I'm always excited when a better camera is developed. I never feel disappointed with my purchases because every camera I but is at least two years old and I already know how it stands up to the next generation. It might perpetually be a difficult time to make it as an indie filmmaker, but it's an awesome time to be a hobbyist. I guess I just wanted to echo everyone's sentiment that Black Magic is dope on a stick for shattering the budget market with this camera. I strongly suspect the bmpcc 4k is going down in the history books as a game changer, but who knows what will happen in the next few years. I can only hope that BM gets overshadowed by some visionary putting dual iso 8k 240fps 444 raw with built in ND, weather sealing and a 24 hour battery into a twenty dollar camera made of hand crafted mythril. But for now I'm happy.

Then again, I bet six months from now BM will release a bmpYTc 4k ("YouTube") that is exactly the same as the bmpcc 4k only it as a fully articulating screen and costs three times the price. Everyone will be on here complaining about how BM ripped them off for not telling them that they planned to release an overpriced selfie cam.

On 4/10/2018 at 11:01 AM, BTM_Pix said:

I do hope Blackmagic have already bought up a boatload of the sensors.

I can just see Panasonic getting on the phone to Sony this morning and saying "You know that IMX294CJK sensor that we buy off you for our GH5 cameras? How many have you got?....Right, we're on our way there now....We'll take the lot"

 

We laugh, but I'd be so sad if this happened. The bmpcc 4k is so revolutionary

On 2/15/2018 at 12:55 AM, jonpais said:

I shot a test myself this morning with the Sigma 16mm f/1.4 at f/2.2, custom AF settings at +1, +3, 29.97p, 179 degree shutter angle and face detect AF. It’s pretty hit or miss. I wouldn’t rely on it for critical work. Maybe works better with Panny lenses. Or shoot several takes and pray. Certainly you’d want to double check focus with an external monitor. 

I've really appreciated your YouTube reviews of the sigma 16mm Jon. Can you or anyone else post footage from the Panasonic 15mm for comparison? I want so badly to get the benefit of the panny's small size (and perhaps better autofocus). However if the Panasonic is significantly lower quality it's not worth it. 

Also does anyone know if the in body barrel distortion Panasonic cameras use gets applied to video or is it just stills?

Many thanks for the help.

There is a recently discovered fix for the panasonic autofocus on the gh5/gh5s based on adjusting shutter angle. Any chance we can use this hack to adjust shutter angle on g85/gx85?

Here's the autofocus fix:

A few weeks later and I'm still really excited about the gh5s. However, I will admit this. Personally, if adding ibis meant wonky vignetting, I'd be cool with writing that off as "character". However, I strongly suspect that most people would rather use the gh5 for ibis without vignetting or trade the ibis for the multi-aspect with no vignetting. I think it's difficult to throw shade on the gh5s' low light performance (particularly when you have depth-of-field concerns). So I'm still giving props to Panasonic for this product. I really hope enough people buy it for it to get an update in the future.

7 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Well on the Video Division Panasonic has been beating Sony 3 years straight

 

 

And didn't Panasonic own jvc for part of that time? I seem to remember a mft mount jvc camera with a super35 sensor, but I could be wrong.

On 1/24/2018 at 1:16 PM, kidzrevil said:

I went to a Panasonic Masterclass with William Wages ASC and B&H and he had some interesting things to say. They were demoing a move shot with the Panasonic Varicam and one of the shots were cut with the GH4 flawlessly. I asked how difficult was it to match the shots he said it wasn’t at all and he prefers the GH line for his work. He says the GH4,5 & 5s allows you to get shots you cant with cine cameras and he rates ALL as very good pro level cameras. 

Yeah, but if someone is on a budget they can hack a gx85 to get cinelikeD 4k which is already at 100mbps plus stabalization that the gh4 didn't have. That's why the gx85 was so impressive (and the g85 is also a low price point with longer battery life than the gx85, fully articulating screen and a mic input. BUT why not just get an external recorder if you need a front facing screen and mic input. That way you get 422)

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

As Panasonic is throwing new cameras at us (GH5=$2000, GH5S=$2500, G9=$1700), it would seem that they've forgotten the lower budget that the GX80/85 (<$600) brought us. I really don't do anything that would warrant a budget upwards of $1500. I hope the DSLM doesn't just have a future like these expensive flagships Panasonic is offering. 

I understand that it is disappointing to see a giant price tag on the new cameras, but I don't think Panasonic is actually moving backwards. I was one of the few people who really liked the gh3. The battery life is incredible and it marked Panasonic's move to actually providing high bit rate support rather than having to rely on a hack. I've also never had any moire issues with it. 

Additionally I want to say that I shoot on a budget and don't do enough serious work to justify buying the most expensive cameras. Hell, I started out with an Olympus e-pl2 which provided barely useable 720p. I bought the gh3 after the gh4 came out and planned to buy the gh4 when the gh5 came out. But the gx85 was so good I thought that I could really serve my needs better with a gx85 than with the gh4. I have no idea what Panasonic will follow up the g85/gx85 with, but if it's a huge disappointment for some reason, you can at least bet that the gh5/gh5s won't still be selling for >$2000. Can't you already get a gh5 for $1400?

If we can get 4k 422 output on the gx85, then I think it's going to be difficult for Panasonic to really mess things up. As long as they keep the features they already have they can only move forward.

Personally, I'm not into compacts. But this looks like it could be an amazing camera that I would recommend to friends. A lot of casual users just want an easy-to-use all-in-one package.

A few questions since I don't follow compacts:

Do compacts have the same variation as ILCs across manufacturers in their color science? Do Canon compacts have better color than Sony/Panasonic's?

What about auto focus? Does dual pixel whatever show up in compacts?

Tie a 20lb weight to your arm. Done. Increased mass will mean it takes more force to alter the momentum of the camera #physics. Your footage will look silky smooth. Obviously use a tripod for stationary shots. How did we survive before the gh5? 

Also (though I prefer Panasonic over Canon) this is a good attitude to have: