Kisaha

3 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Ok. I know many dps shooting tv dramas, indie and studio films in Korea using af. But I guess your experience and reality is all that matters.

And I specifically said docus, weddings, bts and indie filmmaking so it vibes with most of you in the West but again I guess your 'pro' opinion is reality. Maybe I need to reboot my simulation.

There are people feeding their families just pulling focus. Literally NONE pro scripted work uses AF. Even with C300mkII I was measuring distances.

I do not know what they do on weddings but this is as far as can get for professional video work. Literally anyone can do video for weddings with whatever camera and whatever way.

Do you mean Snowpiercer, Parasites and the Vengeance trilogy was shot on AF?

What cameras and lenses are using on top Korean TV dramas? Who are those DPs?

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think brand new newbie buyers are less married to their lens collection (because they have none! Or almost none) than long time pros, so those Rebel DSLR buyers would be easier to push over into buying an APS-C RF Mount Camera instead. 

How many are they? There is a 22% decline in sales for 2019 for a 22% in 2018 and a steep decline before that, while 2020 is going to be terrible anyway.

RF is going to catch up with EF in 50 years or more!

4 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

In docu-style and bts work most canon and sony have great af one can use all day. This includes anything from concert footage to weddings to convention coverage. I don't understand why this is even up for debate in 2020. Just search on youtube or google about how may professionals are using af in their work now. Even the pros who were skeptical before admit they use it now. Even on  a low budget film try to keep the couple in focus as they walk towards you with lens around f4 and wider especially if light is low. See how many takes you do and watch the focus pullers eyes go bloodshot  and the actors and other crew members lose their attention. You're about to lose all the light and money clock is ticking away. You can't come to this location again and the last 15 takes are all unusable because the one or two good takes the boom messed up or the actors were off. Now do the same shot with a canon cine camera with dpaf.

Panasonic needed to sort this out 2-3 years ago.

This is not how movies work! 

Literally noone uses AF and what you describe is not happening on a pro set of a film.

It is a hybrid camera, we need fast and accurate AF system, and in 2020 AF for video is a whole new world waiting to be explored!

I heard something about the Sony A5 (or whatever it will be called) that it may have "advanced" video specs for the price.

Canon has almost 45% of total sales. Sony 20, Nikon 18.9, Fuji/Panasonic something like 4.7%

The market declines 22% every year for the last few years. 

M cameras accept EF lenses and perform incredible good with them, you are missing the point here, there is always something better, which is the EF mount and cheap EF-S and M lenses, and super expensive RF lenses for the next big thing.

I hear a lot of obituaries lately, but nothing is dead until ceases to exist. It is funny to call the M system dead when dozens of thousands of people take photos and videos with it and EF when millions use it right now.

I hear good things about natively adapted EF lenses, it's not like we are going to throw them away. Coupled with the ND thingy is a huge plus.

3-4 years for RF in the decline of interchangeable systems is nothing like 33-34 years of EF, including the peak of video and photography.

140.000.000 Canon lenses have been sold. I am reluctant to believe that EF is dead just yet.

Even to have a similar user base RF has to be adapted by other lens and camera manufacturers and sold at least a few dozens millions!

So far I haven't been impressed with anything in particular about the new mount. I have the last 70-200 4f, why I should go to the RF version? And the vND adapter will give to many another reason to stay EF with RF bodies.

For the next decade I see a mix of older expensive EF and cheap RF for the most of us.

It will definitely be another GH camera.

There are too many happy GH5 users waiting for a mix of GH5 and GH5S with more megapixels (24-28 will do) for the perfect hybrid m43.

Olympus is out of the way and there are still unlimited m43 lenses and bodies in the wild that need a new body for 2021.

If they can keep a state of the art hybrid machine closer to 1500$ than 2000 mark, then they can have an instant hit. Mark my words!

Even for 1799$, depending the specs, can be the best camera to have for the less money.

I haven't been convinced from Fuji just yet and Panasonic has already delivered to us workhorse video mirrorless cameras for cheap. The lens selection is probably EF worthy right now and there are a lot of other companies going the m43 way to keep the mount afloat for at least a decade more.

The success of the Pocket4K and EZ cameras proves that for the right price, people do not have a problem with a smaller sensor. You can have m43 lenses on a cheap cine camera, hybrid, even the 8K Sharp that is coming!

I believe Panasonic has everything in house to build the perfect m43 tool, only shadow is the autofocus capabilities, we can not pretend that it doesn't exist in 2020. Even me, shooting video manually (even with C cameras) all the time, I want my next hybrid to have good AF just in case and to explore the new possibilities. Touch AF is a must also (I am using that reliably on my NX for years).

The "excuse" of a small sensor can keep the price low as well without fear for canibalizing their full frame series, because most people want full frame, whatever that means.

in 2020 I want 10bit codec. I am not going to have this discussion again, but if you do not need "broadcast ready codecs", then everything if fine, skip this comment.

I am not going to spend 8000 euros, or more for another personal camera - because that is how 6500$ translates to Europe - and then I have to rent for broadcasted, or better projects, thank you very much, I stay with GH5 and Pocket cameras for lesser projects and rent when I want to go higher.

If you are a youtuber, then even your 4 years old phone has enough specs and there are multiple solutions under 500$ to better those specs.

I rarely need raw, or any raw, but 8bit was alright 10 years ago..

I am still waiting for a C100mkII replacement, this is one of the most populat Canon cameras ever, where is the next one? R200 certainly is not.

Sony and Panasonic offer XLR thingies that give their video centric mirrorless exactly the same sound options as a video camera (Sony records 4ch and can take the Sony wireless natively) and the only difference is the internal ND, if you get IBIS, better or similar sensor, much better codecs, smaller price tag and you miss only the internal ND, then most people will go with the better everything and they will stick one of the many vND we all have. As simple as that, there is a limit when a video camera is better than a mirrorless and in Europe you will have probably to go above 8000euros for a Canon one.

5 hours ago, herein2020 said:

That is true, I just think Sony is the main destination system for Canon users. Any exodus would get Canon's attention; Sony in particular though seems to be stealing both photography and video shooters from Canon. Panasonic is mainly video shooters, Nikon shooters probably never left Nikon (and lately I get the feeling Nikon may go the way of Olympus but maybe that's just me), and Fuji seems to be more of a niche. 

Sony in particular is the one that came from behind and keeps giving user's what they want in both the photography and video world despite the fact that they have a cinema line as well.

 

What?! that is so untrue! you still can NOT buy any 10bit A7, a6xxx camera if you go tmrow in the shops.

and what Sony was giving? the overheating and bad ergonomics, no touch screen implementation, bad batteries and terrible menu systems are notorious in the Sony line up for so many years!

Finally they just made a great hybrid, A7sIII, only that is not a hybrid, but a video mirrorless! 

Seriously, it is the first Sony I consider buying, but it is mainly a video camera, not a hybrid, but it offers a logical menu system, full touch screen implementation, good battery life, ergonomics better than before - probably still not as good as others, but we will see. These are normal for other brands for at least 4-5 years now. Sony was just making mirrorless cameras while Canonikon were sleeping, and Samsung was quiting.

R5 and R6 will be super hits.

what about the people bought the first shippment? are the ones coming in November better that the current ones? What about the prices (new, and used later on)?

This is so NOT Canon at all

..and finally, when we are about to move to 4K delivery, Sony has the perfect 1080p hybrid camera!

I guess when we are ready for 8K they will deliver the 4K we need, well, now!

(Last year I upgraded my whole workflow to move to 4K delivery for a lot of money, I am expecting to use them eventually!)

Come on Panny, gives us what we want! 

Do we have any rumor at all about the GH6?

I haven't seen anything just of yet, they have to move soon, I am expecting something for early 2021, when I am choosing my next hybrid probably.

Despite the shortcomings, the R6 is at the top of my list right now.

43 minutes ago, kye said:

NEWS FLASH!!  Someone is talking about camera overheating while not standing in rain / snow.

I'm sick to death of the people who talk about camera overheating coming from countries where their summer is the same average temperature as the winter where I live.  And I live in the cooler part of Australia.

The reality of the world is that colder countries are more affluent, so that's where the technology is made, purchased, and generally used:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_and_wealth

Quite true, but all of these are changing.

I talked with my friend on Canada today, and they have had 3-4 heatwaves (35degree Celsious he mentioned) already, which is quite a normal temperature for a hot Greek summer, bot not so much for Quebec.

Desertification is already one of the biggest issues in southern Europe (and Balkans, even Hungary declared some). Overheating of cameras will be a much more important factor the next few years.

One of the reasons I stay true to my NX cameras. They have never - ever - oveheat and/or stopped recording. It would be a disaster here.

I have seen a lot of comical/tragic fails with Sony cameras, and that is why I was so critical towards them all these years. I have so many stories to tell..

@noone

Yes, we did shoot. When you have EXT scenes, you do them outside, in the exterior/most shooting happens outside in the summer, because the sun and the sea is our selling point!

Athens is the capital with the less green in Europe, so working outside in summer time is a torture. Working on the beach, the sun reflects on the sand or pebbles and is scorching hot all day.

Weddings, usually start on noon, or early afternon (5-6, which is still scorching hot), all these happens outside, or at least the ones I was doing (on islands and locations of high beauty -near the sea, beaches, old castles, e.t.c).

Actually, I am thinking to change my job after 20 years and 3 educational degrees on the subject matter, because of the weather. It is that terrible.

I may consider try a job inside a studio, but I was doing that 15 years ago, and I didn't like it at all (too boring, inside a studio all day is too much like a factory work or Kafkian-bureaucratic one.  too dark most of the time, just short brakes just outside the front or back door..not my cup of tea, better burn under the sun for the time being!).

Sony is doing worst thermally for a lot longer, and they became a hit with terrible ergonomics and batteries (until recently).

Probably (I say, most certainly) these Canon's will be super hits.

"Pro videographer" as it used to be, is probably something of the past, or someone that shoots C series cameras and up, definitely is a not enough demographic to influence A series - in the past - or R series - now - sales significantly.

These days I see more "Spec shooters", than video ones.

9 minutes ago, noone said:

Ahh, see that is what I mean.

When he is talking about the temp being 110, THAT is ALSO the official recorded temp under cover and that is how they measure temps everywhere.

Outside in direct sun like on his table, it is probably a LOT hotter just like here when it hit 43 to 46 degrees c this year, it was a LOT hotter outside and on places like on concrete or bitumen roads, it would be over 50 c.

 

Unfortunately, we have to work under those conditions very often, especially now with the climate change, it is getting worst and worst.

We also have another phenomenon which has been increased a lot lately, Sahara dust clouds.

https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=883555736 it reached U.S this year! imagine we, that are just in the corner (literally). This is the worst, as you can not breath easilly and the sand is toxic because of polution and illegal mining in the North African countries. You have headaches and fee terrible and week for days, if you work in the open.

Another problem that we have all the time with synch sound, is that we turn off the airconditioning most of the time (except for special airconditioning units in studios and the such) and the sound man turns the worst enemy of the set immediatelly! 

Anyway, there have been a lot of times that I was shooting together with Sony users, and I had to keep shooting alone with my NX, because they have been shut off because of overheating, especially when I was doing weddings some time ago, and weddings happen early afternoon here. 

7 minutes ago, noone said:

Where?

Just curious, but looking at Athens temps for July this year so far, they look pretty much perfect to me (mostly low 30s c up to 36 c a couple of days).

I see Athens did hit a European record in the 1977 heatwave.

These temperatures you mention are under shadow. In the begining of the video his thermometers were out of range.

I am working on a feautre that starts the other week, and they send us the weather forecast because we have a lot of shooting on beaches, and the forecast was 37-38 until the end of the month, under shade, of course.

Last week a did a web video on a famous beach site as a camera op and the Sachtler was too hot to catch..It took me a couple of days to cool off..

Thank you @anonim for the info.

Does anyone have any IR filter/solution to suggest?

What is the community saying about this subject matter?

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

obviously his NX1 has the hack, so its file is "unusable" (=you do can make it usable though), after the 71-72 FILE LIMIT (not time limit). Someone has to inform him. 

Also the NX500 needs a special software "treatment" to overide the 15m time limit and I have recoreded with NX500 on the file time limit many many times.

These are pretty normal temperatures for mediterranean professionals, mind you.

71-72 minutes FILE limit (that is the issue with long NX files on hacked cameras, or else is trouble, there is a solution, but very demanding on hours and knowledge).

obviously his NX1 has the hack, so its file is "unusable" (=you do can make it usable though), after the 71-72 FILE LIMIT (not time limit). Someone has to inform him. 

On 7/11/2020 at 5:55 AM, gethin said:

I hate this bit. Where the only people who have cameras are the reviewers that play the game with the big companies: who know who will blow smoke up their arse.  

By the time we actually get to see any stills and vid samples the bloody things have been pundited to death, we've all lost days of our lives pointlessly pontificating (hey yeah totally guilty m'lord) and arguing the toss 😆 and we've spent so long doing it that the actual release is a huge anticlimax.  (Or in my case realise that my niche absolutely does not need, and so I cannot possibly justify, dropping $6.5 Aud on the camera anyway).  Yet despite saying this, you can bet I'll read all the articles and watch all the videos 🙄

I wonder about the industry: the cost of these things contines to skyrocket, yet I've not put my prices up for 2 years.  And clients seems increasingly happy to embrace the cheap and shitty.   (I live in rural Australia: your experience may differ😬😁)

 

I would guess Australia is a much better place to be a video maker than most of the world.

The prices are kept very low, even in TV jobs they proposed us a 20% cut, from the already low wages they are offering! I declined some already, but in the end I may have to accept a lesser pay, for more working hours, again.. and I was waiting for this year to rise my salary a bit..

The other markets are race to the bottom with people watching youtube and shot most of their stuff with their mobile phones.

Even some internet campaings we shot recently were not very well payed, to put it mildy, and we had to cut from everything just to justify making them.

Video is everywhere at the moment, so most of the clients except to be very cheap, and it is, because there thousands offering video services for very low money, except they are not profesionals, whatever that means.

Everywhere, the middle class is shrinking I guess, that is true in "middling" jobs too. There are mostly very low paid jobs, and you have to compete with hordes of 20 somethings that just bought a GH5 kit (I have many examples of people getting just an a6300kit and started working!), or try to reach the higher jobs, which are very few already, and in a lot of broken economies are not very well paid either (Balkans, Middle East, Africa, Most of Asia, Central and South America, e.t.c).

Probably everyone will shoot with 360 cameras and 360 microphones, will edit with voice commands, and produce their own videos in 20 years from now!

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

You know what Panasonic did when they released a camera that needed active cooling to prevent it from overheating? 

They added a fan and vents. 

Why? Because it made no sense to offer all the features of the S1H if it couldn't handle it. 

It was a choice to go this route. 

Exactly. They wanted to make a workhorse m43, they put a huge heat sink there, they wanted a workhorse full frame camera, they added active cooling. The only reason Black Magic 4/6K cameras are that big, is the cooling solutions.

It is not a coincidence that normal video cameras are quite big, at least bigger than the common mirrorless. It is well known that maximum performance's enemy is heat, look at the cooling solutions in PCs.

Quite obviously this is not a video workhorse camera, it is a great photocamera with a good showcase of what is coming in the C series.

Just now, markr041 said:

Look, I am not withholding information, I am not an expert on cooling. Another instance of your shooting your mouth off without knowledge. Do you get I am not an expert on cooling, I was just providing a fact about a camera and its performance? Why would you think I would be an expert on cooling cameras just because I posted information on a camera's actual performance? Again,,do your own homework. 

I will inform the engineers of Panasonic, Canon, Sony and other brands of their lack of full information. I hope they will do their homework. Thank you very much.

1 minute ago, markr041 said:

I am stating the facts about actual performance. If you want to learn more about the technical aspects of cooling, do your own homework. You might also check out Z cams as well, who can shoot at high bitrates in HFR with no fan and no overheating.

Thank you for not providing the full information to the community. Much obliged.

Just now, markr041 said:

Exactly, so the comment that it is body size that is the solution to overheating is based on lack of full information.

So, how Sigma does it, and noone else can? Please inform us.