Beritar

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

After deciding going full Canon this summer, now this!

I have already investing in RF (3 lenses, 3 adapters and an R7) and I am now split if I have to sell everything and move to Pana..

R6mkII is still 3.200€ here, so is a no go for me for a middling hybrid, pricing of the Pana cameras seem just right and I am really impressed of what I have seen already. If the EF adapter works well, I seriously don't see why not most choose these cameras and slowly built their L lenses collection.

That X camera seems like an amazing deal whatsoever..

Well done Panny..

GH6 and everything else seems a bit overpriced now.. don't they?

Can anyone point me at any advantages the R6mkII have at this point?

The camera is not out yet and we see just some marginal differences in IBIS and AF, I am positive they will be fixed in no time..

The active cooling is incredible at this price point. It will damage Fuji sales as well I believe.

I do love the color science so far. I haven't pixel peep or anything, really, but I just like what I am seeing..

..just..WOW Panny!

I almost did the same thing !
But I sent back the R5 and kept all my L mount lenses. The S1 (and S5) is great , yes the AF is very bad but IBIS and image quality are very good. 

I still have my GH6 but I'm very tempted to sell it before it loses it's value, I agree the it is somewhat overpriced and beside of very nice colours I don't like the image quality so much for some reasons. But it's the only Panasonic camera with 4K 120fps, is it why I maybe not ready to part with it.

I never had the R6 or the R6II but for me the R5 had the advantages of 4K 60 and 120fps without crop compared to the S5II. The R6II has no crop in 4K 60fps but I still prefer what I've seen of the S5 II, even if the R5 and R6 were at the same price. The S5 II could be my favorite camera since my NX1.
But if Panasonic adds 4K60/120fps for the S1II, it will be my perfect camera.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Matt from Newsshooter seems extremely confident the S1Hmk2 won't be coming out this year. (or unlikely to even happen next year) 
 

I agree with him, that doesn't seem realistic to see the S1H II this year (or maybe a S1H II with just the upgraded AF).

2 minutes ago, Amazeballs said:

Its all about getting the right sensor from Sony. I dont have and doubt Panasonic could make FF4k60p and less rolling shutter already if they had better sensor tech. 

Even the A1 can't do 4K 120fps without crop. I think the S1II will only have 4K60fps Full Frame, maybe the S1HII but the price will be very high.

5 hours ago, stephen said:

According to CVP's review Panasonic S5 II PDAF auto focus in video is still behind Sony and Canon. According to them auto focus with Sigma MC21 + Canon EF lenses is no different than auto focus with native lenses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VPQoWRS0l4

Yes but I've also seen some videos where the new Panny AF is even better than the A7IV, so we must wait and see.

Just better rolling shutter and 4K60fps Full Frame (I don't think we will see 120fps with a 20MP+ sensor). I was not so impressed by Gyro stabilization on the A7SIII, the new Panny stabilization looks way better, no need to use very high shutter speed, no crop, no post processing, no resolution lost.

I use both L mount and FE mount and for me Panasonic is ahead for image, colors, IBIS, ergonomic. Only the AF is (was) better on Sony. Now the AF is more or less on part, only my wife will use Sony (we will only keep the A7III, along with some GM lenses).
I still have my GH6 for 4K 120fps but I'm not a fan of this camera so I hope Panny will give us at least 4K 60fps FF for the new S1.
Oh and the 24-70mm S Pro is big and heavy, but this lens is magic, never seen such local contrast on a 24-70mm.

19 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

With pixel count being 24MP it does not seem to me it might be the same sensor as used in the Sony A7iii, Lumix S5/1/1H in its different alterations, this time with PDAF like the A7iii. What the all have in common is rolling shutter of around 21ms in FF and 4K 60p for S35 crop only. I like the form factor though and swivel screen and full HDMI. Maybe I will trade my S1 in for it and finally give the great sensor some good running for its money finally. I only used the S1 on three small paid gigs over the last two years, for a short and as C cam for another short. I have no personal connection with this camera. With my Gx85 it´s the opposite. It is dear to my heart. Maybe the S5ii will be a good substitute for my S1.

Just that 22ms rolling shutter is a bit unpleasant compared to filming with the GH5 with its 15ms. 15ms is good enough for me, 22ms sometimes a bit challenging. So with a better rolling shutter the S5ii would be a no brainer for me, if image quality is the same as S1 in theoriy and practical use and abuse as well.

Yes, PDAF, improved colors and rolling shutter are what I want. I'm not in love with the GH6, but the rolling shutter and colors (IMO) are better than on my S1.

On 12/2/2022 at 9:19 AM, John Matthews said:

The GH6, from my limited experience, doesn't behave the same as other cameras (at least in photo mode). The first thing I noticed right off the bat was that you need to expose more like the final image you intend on getting, not just shooting for the highlights. Also, you should know that the DR Boost mode is always ON in photo mode (Panasonic confirmed that in a live stream). 13 stops in video mode is probably generous on the GH6, but so is 15 stops on the A7sIII. Anyway, I think anything above 10 stops is AMAZING for rec709 and current viewing possibilities! 13 stops way more than what was going on just 10 years ago, and on a M43 sensor. I don't think we're going to get much more real differences with CMOS sensor tech anyway. Of course, there's still room for improvements, but we're not going to get 27 stops DR 20bit gigapixel images without a major change. In the meantime, we've got AI.

Yes you're right, DR Boost is ON in photo mode but not always, it is ON from ISO 800 (the same as video mode with other profiles than Vlog), this is why DPreview and Photonstophotos show a better dynamic range from ISO 800. 

I agree about dynamic range, 10 stops is ok. What bother me is the noise reduction, I prefer to get 10 stops with details than 12 stops with less details in shadows. I don't know why Panasonic don't let us the choice to use zero sharpening and noise reduction on the GH6, I know you can in RAW but this is not internal.

9 hours ago, deezid said:

1st
Not using sRGB/Rec709 profiles here

2nd
Used standard settings? Sharpening/NR are super aggressive with standard settings with Rec709 profiles, which is definitely visible in your Video. Looks like when I push NR all the way up in V-Log, super mushy.

3rd
With V-Log the amount of noise reduction by default is super low, much lower than on the S series line up as well. There's tons of Chroma detail even in shadows which isn't really the case on the S series and other Lumix cameras.

This is not my video, but I had every GH cameras, the S1 and S5 and some Sony cameras (including the A7SIII, the champion of mushy details at very high ISO), so I can see when temporal noise reduction is used (and its intensity).

I don't use V-log in low light a lot so I was very surprised to see so much noise reduction in profile like Natural and Cine-V with the lowest NR value (-5), these profiles was good at keeping details below ISO 800 without so much noise before.
But on the GH6 although it looks very clean compared to the GH5 and G9, the details are not there anymore. There is a bit less noise reduction in V-log, but still too much. CineD stated that the dynamic range of V-log in the GH6 H265 was so good because of the noise reduction :

"But looking at the noise floor in the waveform plot it seems that it also has a lot more noise processing going on internally which cannot be turned “OFF”."

They also said the Prores HQ was better at keeping the "raw" sensor image, so I swapped my CFexpress from my S1 to put in my GH6 and indeed there is less noise reduction but the files are huge and you can't use them right of the bat without processing them in your video editor. From what I've seen only the Raw external Prores is noise processing free.
You can see the difference at 13m45s :

Do you use H265, Prores HQ or raw ? Because this is not my experience at all about the chroma details with the H265 codec, my S1 keeps a lot more details than my GH6 in low light. The Prores HQ is better and retains more details but certainly not more than the S1 or the S5.

Look at the guy's hairs at 0m38s (V-log profile was used), there is far less noise processing on the GH5 and S5, the GH5 has too much noise but also less noise reduction :

The GH6 is doing a very good job at preserving details but we can clearly see a lot of noise reduction are used, it look like oil painting (though I can't see how a 25MP M43 sensor could do better without using a lot of noise reduction).

The raw photo dynamic range is a better indicator of the performance of the sensor than the video and the GH6 is not stellar. We often see a difference in noise between photo and video because noise and dynamic range are measured differently in video and photo, for photos it's static, and for video it's dynamic and can be hidden by in camera noise processing. There is no way the GH6 could achieve such noise performance without using heavy noise reduction (It was the same thing  with the a7SIII which had 15 stops of DR in video DR and only 13 stops in photos). The DR boost is an expetion because its combining a high and low gain and we can't get this result in photo, however it comes with some restrictions.

I think for most people the noise reduction is not much a problem, especially if they don't crop or if they use V-log Prores HQ but the difference is very apparent in H265 and even more with other profiles. I much prefer to keep details (and sometimes removing noise in post) than deal with a very clean picture with mushy degraded details. The A7SIII uses the same trick and people seem to love it so I can understand why Panasonic is doing the same with their new 3D digital noise reduction. ISO noise grain is slowly being replaced with a sort of oil painting image with much less details. And there is no way to turn this 3D noise processing off. The first camera I had with this problem was the NX1 in 2014, I still own this camera but I never used it in low light.

I really like the GH6 for the improved colors and the slowmotion in daylight, but that's it. The GH4 and the GH5 were more impressive in their time in my opinion. My dream camera would be the S5 with the A74's AF and 4K 120fps.

On 11/28/2022 at 12:13 AM, deezid said:

There's way less NR on the GH6 than on the S1H even when shooting V-Log and even less so when shooting ProRes.
Really confused about the experiences here, was NR set to lowest (0) 😅

Maybe on the S1H, but not on the S5 and S1. The 4K of the GH6 is very clean compared to the GH5 but it uses more noise reduction, I compared with the GH5 and G9, and while the GH6 looks better with far less noise, there is less details. 
You can see the difference in this video : 

The 5,7K is really good though, there is better details and less noise reduction, too bad for the small crop, and the IBIS is bit weaker than on 4K.

21 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

yikes. I would love to hear @deezid with his observation on this. Thanks for pointing out. Gh5 got mushy from iso 1600 on. Not a pretty sight.

The noise reduction in 4K is not an issue if you don't zoom in your video, but I usually do this ... Sony also uses a lot of noise reduction even in the A7SIII. The GH6 is doing a nice job at reducing noise while keeping some details but there is no way to really remove the noise reduction if you don't shoot RAW. 

However, the 5,7k is great, there is less noise reduction and the image is very nice, but I was surprised that nobody said there is a very slight crop in this mode.

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I´ve seen this test how the GH6 excels in holding onto colour under various conditions. It beats a GH5s by far in lowlight regarding colours, also providing much higher resolution in these super lowlight conditions. @Attila Bakos has recognized the Fuji XH2s having a lack in colour resolution, blurring the red channel. It seems indeed that the GH6 sensor and image pipeline is something extraordinary and very impressive. Like @deezid stated, it needs a true zero sharpening setting though, as footage is a bit on the crispy side, like Lumix S5 or S1, needing a -1 in Vlog, like the S1H is providing. For me it additionally need Prores LT, also Prores for UHD, not just Cine 4K. Plus it need a S16 crop mode like the GH5. Then I would be willing to pay good money for it.

I'm not sure about zero sharpening but I have the GH5, GH6 and S1, the GH6 is less "sharp" than the GH5 in 4K. There is far less artificial sharpening, even when I set the sharpness of the GH6 at +5, the GH5 at 0 is still sharper. However the Open Gate 5K of the GH5 is still beautiful, there is almost zero sharpening and noise reduction, the image is very "organic".
 
The issue I have with the GH6 is the new noise reduction algorithm (called 3D), it makes the low light really cleaner than GH5 but it also smear details in some areas of the image in low light even at ISO 200 (a bit like the Samsung NX1 but much less aggressive), even with the NR set at -5. I think there is no miracle, we speak about a M43 25MP sensor so some concessions must be made, but I was very surprised to see the GH5 retaining better details (the trade off is the noise).
The 5,7K is a different beast, it uses more sharpening and a bit less noise reduction (the footage is sharper than the 5,9K and 6K of the S1), however there is a little crop in this mode and nobody speaks about it.
For me the big advantages of the GH6 are the new color science, the 4K 120fps and the very good stabilization making (almost) possible handheld walking video.

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I was using 3 cameras when I was doing weddings photography, 2 NX1 and an NX500 with a speciality (oddball lens) on it. All these cameras were on me at all times, but never both video AND photo. Still can't comprehend how you do it. I always have a partner/assistant with me, even for the easiest of jobs..

Sometimes we were 3-4 people for video and 2-3 for photography..

An 24-70 as a workhorse was the most used lens usually, 24mm is good for small group photos, and 70mm is an alright focal length for portraits. The oddball lens on the NX500 could be the amazing NX fisheye or the pancake 16mm..the workhorse lens was the 16-50mm (24-75mm equiv) and 2-2.8f. unique lens and always negated the need for the Sigma 18-35, as at those mm (at 32-33mm to be precise) the NX is 2f, with an incredible I.S, both wider and longer. With the other NX I was usually using the amazingly small 45mm 1.8f for more "artistic" portraits. This lens has a ton of character, especially for the silly price..

Just a different way of doing similar things, I guess!

I still use my NX1 with the 16-50mm S and 45mm f/1.8, the colors and character of the 45mm f/1.8 ... Oh my god.

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I re-watched that video.

True, Shane was able to keep the autofocus mostly in focus. If I were able to get as good continuous autofocus as he does, I probably would buy the 24mm (or the 20-60 zoom) and stop entertaining any thoughts of getting an a7 IV.

I have unfortunately been unable myself to get anything close to that level of AF performance with either my S5 or my S1.

On the other hand, I only have the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 lens. It was one of the first lenses that Panasonic released for the S-Series of cameras, so maybe the more recent prime lenses just focus better??? (I have updated the firmware on my bodies and my lens to the latest firmware release).

I think in bright scenes with a lot of contrast, shooting in the standard profile, you might get useable autofocus. 

On the other hand, I have shot scenes in V-LOG when it was still rather bright but less contrast (overcast skies, or in open shade), and the autofocus was just completely unusable.

Most of the times that I have tried using autofocus, it works around 75% of the time, but then I end up having to re-do shots to get it right. This would be a scenario where I am doing something similar to a focus pull on a slider shot, where I am focusing on a foreground object and when I slide past the object and I want it to focus on a background object.

Or if I am panning (or tilting) from a foreground object to the talent's face. About 75% of the time it will transition ok, otherwise not.

The tough thing for me is that if I then quickly switch it in to AF-S (which is usually more dependable), it STILL might not focus on the talent. 

Anyway, it is frustrating.

V-LOG is very bad for Autofocus. You should try HLG (almost the same DR) or even CINE-V, the AF is better than with V-LOG.
Also, the more DOF you get the better is the AF so it is not very surprising than lenses like the 24mm or the 20-60mm (on the wide angle) perform better than lenses longer than 30mm.

5 hours ago, sanveer said:

I thought his review was so exaggerated. He was like "when ypu want the best impossible image, M43 is dead". Whoa, it almost seemed like he was dumped today or yesterday. 

Undone is the guy who claims the Sigma 18-35mm has better AF than the Summilux 10-25mm on the GH5. I recall he also said the A7SIII 4k video was sharper than the A7III. He clearly biased for Sony and destroys anything about Panasonic. About his S5 review, the only thing he said about the IBIS was the S1 is clearly better without comparing to Sony or anything like that. 

18 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Does anyone have suggestions for a follow focus or something / anything else to help with manual focus, either when shooting on my Weebill S gimbal or when hand holding?

I can do manual focus pulls "ok" (better than the AF-C can do them), but then the camera gets shakey because I am supporting the weight of the body with only my right hand and using the left to focus.

And I have noticed that when shooting with my S1 in 6K mode, the stabilization isn't as effective. 

Saw a video by Paul Byun where he suggested using a nucleus nano on a weebills s, but that looks like you would really make it even harder to keep the gimbal and camera free of shaking.

Anyone have any success with either plugging the gimbal directly into the camera body and using the wheel on the side of the gimbal to pull focus? or by mounting the available motor to the gimbal and using it to pull focus?

Thanks in advance.

You noticed the IBIS is less effective in 6K open gate or 5,9K ?

The IBIS in 5,9K is fantastic. So good you can simulate slider shots in post.

I can't agree more, especially for the S1/S5 and the NX1. I still love to use my NX1 in good light at base ISO, colors and sharpness are outstanding with the 16-50mm S.

The S1/S5 are also great, image quality is IMO superior to the Sony A7SIII.
I like to use the S1 6K mode combined with the wonderful IBIS and the 50mm S PRO to shoot dolly like footage with awesome quality.

21 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@Beritar Then you might like the 200mbit hack for HD on the G9. You can find it in this thread and let us know about your findings.:) I like the 4k on my GX85. I imagine the GX9 to be about the same. It crops in more than the GX85 does because of having 4MP more in resolution. But it also is the newer sensor from the GX8 and GH5. I imagine the GX9 to be the perfect compact HD camera with its new 100 and 200mbit modes, coming from the hack.

I only use 4K because I watch my videos on a big TV. I downloaded some clips with 20 and 100mbits in 1080P but I don't see a major improvement. I also compared some of my old 4K videos with my GH4 and the GX9 is really worse noise wise. I think it's a pretty bad idea from Panasonic to use such a crop on a 20MP M43 sensor. 

On 12/23/2021 at 9:58 PM, PannySVHS said:

Darn it @Grimor. Having 100mbit HD on the GX85 would have been.. Well, would have been still the same HD which lacks the natural beauty one gets with HD from a G6 or G7. GX85 HD looks a bit underwhelming and brittle compared to those two. GX9 on the other hand might be a winner. Any experiences with the 100mbit and 200mbit HD from the GX9?

I have a GX9 but the 4K mode is disapointing to say the least. I can live with the 1.25x cropping, however because of this crop, the noise is everywhere, even at ISO 200. It could be awesome if it was possible to remove the crop in 4K. This little camera is almost perfect otherwise for daily use , pocketable with small lenses, good IBIS, nice colors etc.

Very nice pictures.

1 hour ago, stephen said:

S5 can shoot 5.9K internal but with time limit and in 10bit 4:2:0 h265. This codec is difficult for editing, so I never use it. 4K is good enough for me.

 

Sadly, S5 is limited to 5K internal, this is the "6K" photo mode but the resolution is "only" 5184x3456 with no way to use things "like IBIS Boost". Only the S1 can do 6K and 5,9K internal.

1 hour ago, Django said:

Interesting, well looks like even the mighty S1H has got some pretty glaring limitations..

At 6K 3:2 mode the S1H has a whopping 29.7ms of RS. Barely usable outside of locked shots.

Anamorphic shooting aside then, it is certainly possible to compare (16:9) IQ:

S1H has 5.9K. A7IV has oversampled 4K from 7K.

In 16:9 4K/5.9K RS averages at 24ms. That's about what the A7IV does.

10-bit is 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2. Win for the A7IV.

4K60p is cropped on both.

Sony has latest-gen PDAF with tracking vs contrast AF.

Sony has SLog3 & S-Cinetone profile. Not sure about the Panasonic.

Anything else concerning IQ?

 

 

I prefer to get 5,9K and 6K open gate than 4k oversampled to 7k. Furthermore, I don't know about the A7IV but the A7III and A7SIII have massive noise reduction, I think the A7IV will have the same. The IBIS on Sony is almost useless, it depend if you use your camera for run and gun, but the S5/S1/S1H are miles ahead for stabilization. About LOG, Panasonic has VLOG, DR and colors are top-notch

19 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I was a bit worried that this thread hadn't mentioned Panasonic yet!

Don't base your judgement of Panasonic autofocus on say old GH3 era experiences, it is a hyperbolic exaggeration to now call it "terrible".

The G9 / GH5mk2 / S5 / etc are all top notch video autofocus if you were to ever compare it against that past. If they'd came out back then, people would've been blown away by Panasonic's autofocus and been praising it to the highest extent!

And the pricey Panasonic lenses doesn't matter, as Sigma is there too. 
L Mount really does have all the bases covered:
1) high end luxury premium lenses with Leica 
2) high end but practical lenses with Panasonic 
3) mid range priced lenses with Sigma 
4) low end cheapies from China with manual focus lenses (half a dozen lenses priced sub $400 on B&H alone, and it is still early days, more to come soon for sure)

I love Panasonic, I have the GH5, S5 and S1 with very good lenses. The S Pro lenses are magnificent and the S5/S1 image quality is great. However The AF is just bad, even with the firmware updates. Even the old NX1 is faster in video.
 

On 6/24/2021 at 1:56 AM, Silenkiller said:

I think you are confused a bit. He is a gear reviewer from a purely technical standpoint and probably the best there is on YouTube. Can't even begin to understand, what is so hard to understand, about that one.

I watched two reviews from him. The Panasonic Leica 10-25mm and the Sony A7SIII.
On the first video, he said the Sigma 18-35mm with SB had faster AF than the 10-25mm.
On the second video, he said the 4K of the A7SIII was sharper than the A7III.

Why not ...
 

1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

@Beritar the OP stated they're using a Pocket 4k, which does have a native DCI 4k sensor, so your remark is not really relevant to them (just to avoid any confusion ahead of time).

Yes, my mistake. Thank you for pointing that out, I never used the Pocket 4K. I thought it was the same process.