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Beritar

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Posts posted by Beritar

  1. 5 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

    Maybe the ever so slightly decreased latitude is that quality decrease Panasonic kept saying when they tried to defend doing with Dirt-From-Defocus AF 😂 

    From my experience (I have the camera since a month), the latitude is not the only downgrade, detail rendering (less in V-Log) and motion quality are also worse than the S1 and S5. But a lot of people will not see the difference, especially those who shoot in a very well controled environnement and those for whom 1080P is enough quality.

  2. 5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

    Guess I would rather keep my S1 instead of selling it for a S5II. Looking forward to see more videos on that. Thanks for pointing out! @Beritar

    I just saw there is NO smoothing in C4K ! The picture looks exactly the same than the S5 and S1. 
    However 4K and 5,9/6K are impacted, and sadly V-log as well.

    You can see how some textures look in 4K, look at the green grid :
     

    There is a big difference about details rendering between 4K and C4K, 4K sometimes looks like upscaled 1080P with some textures like skin. I hope panasonic will fix this in a firmware update soon.

  3. Like the GH6, the S5II uses a sort of digital aliasing/moiré filter to helps with repetitive lines. I use Panasonic cameras since the GH4 and there is something I really disliked about image quality on their new cameras since the GH6 and now I know what is it.
    This + the increased noise reduction on the standard profiles make the pictures sometimes weird/plastic, especially on skin. 
    Fortunately, this digital moiré filter is a bit weakier in V-log but still there. To compensate the softening made by this digital filter, Panasonic has added more sharpening compare to the S5 especially with standard profiles, and (according to what I see on facebook) even in V-log when both camera have the sharpness set to 0. But the end result is not really good, the image looks sometimes weird mostly when there is motion or on the skin because it smooths some textures (like skin pores) and sharpen other ones (like eyelashes), so there is less details (despite higher in camera sharpening) than on the S5 and S1.

     

  4. 6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

    I liked all the outdoor shots from the GH6 better:) More sublte tones, skin without the pinkness of the S5. Good test, thank you for posting. ISO640 is not even Dual Gain, right? Still GH6 is performing lovely. But GH6 should have had PDAF and the quality of S5 IBIS! Well..

    I use both cameras and I'm not sure the S5ii IBIS is better. I need to make a side by side test with multiple lenses.

  5. 1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

    For those who want to do this you could create a real time LUT that pushes the signal down by 2 stops or whatever and shoot at 640. V-Log has 6ish stops in the highlights versus the standard profiles which probably have around 4 maximum. That's how log profiles work: for example let's say the base ISO is normally 100 and the log profile is 800. Well, the log profile is basically shooting at 100 to give 3 extra stops in the highlights and the signal is then raised so the exposure is correct.

    So for people who want the normal profiles for cleaner low light by using lower ISO, you should theoretically be able to get the same result by "overexposing" the same scene at a higher VLog ISO and pushing the image down a few stops with a real time LUT.

    Good to know but I tried a lot of LUTs at ISO 320 and each time the noise was higher on the S5II compared to the standard/Natural/Cine-V profiles.  For exemple, the S1 has a lovely picture in 6K with the standard profiles, noise free at low ISO, the S5II is noise free too in 6K but it uses the new details processing.

    Do you have some LUTs I could try ?

  6. 4 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

    Anyone got any examples comparing the S5 and S5ii in Natural, CineD etc to see the difference? The S1 and S5 have a great image even in lowlight. I’d hope the S5ii was the same.

    I don’t want to use Vlog all the time.

    This is Standard profile, but Natural and Cine-D have the same new details processing.
    Some users suggest you can use a real time LUT with V-log to sort this out but this is not exactly the same because V-log can't be used below ISO 320. The good news is 8 bits V-log is not impacted.
    I really hope Panasonic will add an option to get ride of this new details processing.

  7. 3 hours ago, XNYC said:

    Many are impressed with the new active I.S. video stabilization.  Is this "new" IBIS activated in the Normal stabilization mode or does E. Stabilization have to also be ON? 

    The new "Active" IS is the name of the new stabilization. This has nothing to do with E-Stabilization which add a crop.
    Some "Pro" youtubers have mixed up with "Active Stabilization" from Sony (which is basicaly the same than E-Stabilization).

    From my test and compared to the S1, the new Active IS is great, you can walk with lenses between 20/85mm with almost no "jump" or wobbles (you must walk very slowly with a 85mm though).
    The IBIS boost fonction is improved as well, I tried with a 50mm and 85mm lens in 6K mode, even when cropping 1:1, the footage is super stable.

    Oh and the AF is great with Panasonic S lenses ! This is the first Panasonic camera with AF in my opinion.

    However there is a downgrade on the standard profiles about image quality, faces looks mushy like on Fuji or Samsung NX, even Sony looks better. Too much temporal noise/color reduction. V-LOG (8 bits/10 bits) is not impacted.

  8. 9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

    The S1H lost that aggressive NR in later firmware, the GH5 had similar issue at first. The S1 never had the aggressive NR though, probably one of the better cameras in terms of an organic NR free image, it was rated at 12.2 stops. The C70 in RAW is 12.3 stops, which is very close to what the S1 is doing.

     Of course the S1 may have less dynamic range in RAW due to the likely less processing going on. But from using both cameras on projects the S1 seems to hold highlights better while the while the C70 is better in shadows. But I know people have noticed the C70 in 10 bit is doing a lot of processing, which is why I assume the dynamic range in RAW is less. 

    To have used the S1, S5 and the S5II, the S1 and S5 produce a nicer image quality than the S5II with every other profiles than V-LOG, too much details processing on the S5II.

  9. On 1/10/2023 at 11:37 PM, Trek of Joy said:

    Panasonic - like Nikon with the 1.8 S lenses, are doing great things with the few lenses its released. The faster lenses are stupid huge and not doing them any favors at all. But Sony also has the 50GM, which is vastly superior to pretty much any L-mount lens in every way. Panasonic should be dissecting every recent GM lens and try to top them, the size of many L-mount bodies and lenses are a detractor for many. The 50 1.4z is still great and can be found used for crazy cheap prices compared to its performance. Sony's latest GM mk2 zooms make the gargantuan L-mount 2.8 zooms look silly in comparison - they're better optically, better AF with the linear motors and are much, much smaller. Sony also has the recent 24/35/135 GM's that are class leading, and cheaper alternatives in many cases like the 20/35/80 1.8's. And then there are the vast 3rd party options including everything Sigma has in the L-mount.

    Everyone has a long way to catch Sony on the lens side - the only thing anyone outside of Canon can hope for is to try and stack the spec sheet enough to keep people from choosing Sony or Canon. But as we've seen over the last few years, Sony is the only one gaining market share at the expense of everyone else. Lenses are a major factor in their rise. 

    Chris

     

     

    Superior about sharpness maybe but not about rendering and colors. I prefer my 50mm S Pro over the 50mm GM (I sold the latter last month). The 24-70mm S Pro has great rendering too and I don't think the 24-70mm GM II is as good except for sharpness but I only used the first 24-70mm GM so I'm not sure.
    I still have the 35mm and 135mm GM though, microcontrast is outstanding on the 35mm GM for an AF lens.

  10. 1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

    After deciding going full Canon this summer, now this!

    I have already investing in RF (3 lenses, 3 adapters and an R7) and I am now split if I have to sell everything and move to Pana..

    R6mkII is still 3.200€ here, so is a no go for me for a middling hybrid, pricing of the Pana cameras seem just right and I am really impressed of what I have seen already. If the EF adapter works well, I seriously don't see why not most choose these cameras and slowly built their L lenses collection.

    That X camera seems like an amazing deal whatsoever..

    Well done Panny..

    GH6 and everything else seems a bit overpriced now.. don't they?

    Can anyone point me at any advantages the R6mkII have at this point?

    The camera is not out yet and we see just some marginal differences in IBIS and AF, I am positive they will be fixed in no time..

    The active cooling is incredible at this price point. It will damage Fuji sales as well I believe.

    I do love the color science so far. I haven't pixel peep or anything, really, but I just like what I am seeing..

    ..just..WOW Panny!

    I almost did the same thing !
    But I sent back the R5 and kept all my L mount lenses. The S1 (and S5) is great , yes the AF is very bad but IBIS and image quality are very good. 

    I still have my GH6 but I'm very tempted to sell it before it loses it's value, I agree the it is somewhat overpriced and beside of very nice colours I don't like the image quality so much for some reasons. But it's the only Panasonic camera with 4K 120fps, is it why I maybe not ready to part with it.

    I never had the R6 or the R6II but for me the R5 had the advantages of 4K 60 and 120fps without crop compared to the S5II. The R6II has no crop in 4K 60fps but I still prefer what I've seen of the S5 II, even if the R5 and R6 were at the same price. The S5 II could be my favorite camera since my NX1.
    But if Panasonic adds 4K60/120fps for the S1II, it will be my perfect camera.

  11. 2 minutes ago, Amazeballs said:

    Its all about getting the right sensor from Sony. I dont have and doubt Panasonic could make FF4k60p and less rolling shutter already if they had better sensor tech. 

    Even the A1 can't do 4K 120fps without crop. I think the S1II will only have 4K60fps Full Frame, maybe the S1HII but the price will be very high.

  12. I use both L mount and FE mount and for me Panasonic is ahead for image, colors, IBIS, ergonomic. Only the AF is (was) better on Sony. Now the AF is more or less on part, only my wife will use Sony (we will only keep the A7III, along with some GM lenses).
    I still have my GH6 for 4K 120fps but I'm not a fan of this camera so I hope Panny will give us at least 4K 60fps FF for the new S1.
    Oh and the 24-70mm S Pro is big and heavy, but this lens is magic, never seen such local contrast on a 24-70mm.

  13. 19 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

    With pixel count being 24MP it does not seem to me it might be the same sensor as used in the Sony A7iii, Lumix S5/1/1H in its different alterations, this time with PDAF like the A7iii. What the all have in common is rolling shutter of around 21ms in FF and 4K 60p for S35 crop only. I like the form factor though and swivel screen and full HDMI. Maybe I will trade my S1 in for it and finally give the great sensor some good running for its money finally. I only used the S1 on three small paid gigs over the last two years, for a short and as C cam for another short. I have no personal connection with this camera. With my Gx85 it´s the opposite. It is dear to my heart. Maybe the S5ii will be a good substitute for my S1.

    Just that 22ms rolling shutter is a bit unpleasant compared to filming with the GH5 with its 15ms. 15ms is good enough for me, 22ms sometimes a bit challenging. So with a better rolling shutter the S5ii would be a no brainer for me, if image quality is the same as S1 in theoriy and practical use and abuse as well.

    Yes, PDAF, improved colors and rolling shutter are what I want. I'm not in love with the GH6, but the rolling shutter and colors (IMO) are better than on my S1.

  14. On 12/2/2022 at 9:19 AM, John Matthews said:

    The GH6, from my limited experience, doesn't behave the same as other cameras (at least in photo mode). The first thing I noticed right off the bat was that you need to expose more like the final image you intend on getting, not just shooting for the highlights. Also, you should know that the DR Boost mode is always ON in photo mode (Panasonic confirmed that in a live stream). 13 stops in video mode is probably generous on the GH6, but so is 15 stops on the A7sIII. Anyway, I think anything above 10 stops is AMAZING for rec709 and current viewing possibilities! 13 stops way more than what was going on just 10 years ago, and on a M43 sensor. I don't think we're going to get much more real differences with CMOS sensor tech anyway. Of course, there's still room for improvements, but we're not going to get 27 stops DR 20bit gigapixel images without a major change. In the meantime, we've got AI.

    Yes you're right, DR Boost is ON in photo mode but not always, it is ON from ISO 800 (the same as video mode with other profiles than Vlog), this is why DPreview and Photonstophotos show a better dynamic range from ISO 800. 

    I agree about dynamic range, 10 stops is ok. What bother me is the noise reduction, I prefer to get 10 stops with details than 12 stops with less details in shadows. I don't know why Panasonic don't let us the choice to use zero sharpening and noise reduction on the GH6, I know you can in RAW but this is not internal.

  15. 9 hours ago, deezid said:

    1st
    Not using sRGB/Rec709 profiles here

    2nd
    Used standard settings? Sharpening/NR are super aggressive with standard settings with Rec709 profiles, which is definitely visible in your Video. Looks like when I push NR all the way up in V-Log, super mushy.

    3rd
    With V-Log the amount of noise reduction by default is super low, much lower than on the S series line up as well. There's tons of Chroma detail even in shadows which isn't really the case on the S series and other Lumix cameras.

    This is not my video, but I had every GH cameras, the S1 and S5 and some Sony cameras (including the A7SIII, the champion of mushy details at very high ISO), so I can see when temporal noise reduction is used (and its intensity).

    I don't use V-log in low light a lot so I was very surprised to see so much noise reduction in profile like Natural and Cine-V with the lowest NR value (-5), these profiles was good at keeping details below ISO 800 without so much noise before.
    But on the GH6 although it looks very clean compared to the GH5 and G9, the details are not there anymore. There is a bit less noise reduction in V-log, but still too much. CineD stated that the dynamic range of V-log in the GH6 H265 was so good because of the noise reduction :


    "But looking at the noise floor in the waveform plot it seems that it also has a lot more noise processing going on internally which cannot be turned “OFF”."

    They also said the Prores HQ was better at keeping the "raw" sensor image, so I swapped my CFexpress from my S1 to put in my GH6 and indeed there is less noise reduction but the files are huge and you can't use them right of the bat without processing them in your video editor. From what I've seen only the Raw external Prores is noise processing free.
    You can see the difference at 13m45s :


    Do you use H265, Prores HQ or raw ? Because this is not my experience at all about the chroma details with the H265 codec, my S1 keeps a lot more details than my GH6 in low light. The Prores HQ is better and retains more details but certainly not more than the S1 or the S5.

    Look at the guy's hairs at 0m38s (V-log profile was used), there is far less noise processing on the GH5 and S5, the GH5 has too much noise but also less noise reduction :

     

    The GH6 is doing a very good job at preserving details but we can clearly see a lot of noise reduction are used, it look like oil painting (though I can't see how a 25MP M43 sensor could do better without using a lot of noise reduction).

    The raw photo dynamic range is a better indicator of the performance of the sensor than the video and the GH6 is not stellar. We often see a difference in noise between photo and video because noise and dynamic range are measured differently in video and photo, for photos it's static, and for video it's dynamic and can be hidden by in camera noise processing. There is no way the GH6 could achieve such noise performance without using heavy noise reduction (It was the same thing  with the a7SIII which had 15 stops of DR in video DR and only 13 stops in photos). The DR boost is an expetion because its combining a high and low gain and we can't get this result in photo, however it comes with some restrictions.

    I think for most people the noise reduction is not much a problem, especially if they don't crop or if they use V-log Prores HQ but the difference is very apparent in H265 and even more with other profiles. I much prefer to keep details (and sometimes removing noise in post) than deal with a very clean picture with mushy degraded details. The A7SIII uses the same trick and people seem to love it so I can understand why Panasonic is doing the same with their new 3D digital noise reduction. ISO noise grain is slowly being replaced with a sort of oil painting image with much less details. And there is no way to turn this 3D noise processing off. The first camera I had with this problem was the NX1 in 2014, I still own this camera but I never used it in low light.

    I really like the GH6 for the improved colors and the slowmotion in daylight, but that's it. The GH4 and the GH5 were more impressive in their time in my opinion. My dream camera would be the S5 with the A74's AF and 4K 120fps.

  16. On 11/28/2022 at 12:13 AM, deezid said:

    There's way less NR on the GH6 than on the S1H even when shooting V-Log and even less so when shooting ProRes.
    Really confused about the experiences here, was NR set to lowest (0) 😅

    Maybe on the S1H, but not on the S5 and S1. The 4K of the GH6 is very clean compared to the GH5 but it uses more noise reduction, I compared with the GH5 and G9, and while the GH6 looks better with far less noise, there is less details. 
    You can see the difference in this video : 

    The 5,7K is really good though, there is better details and less noise reduction, too bad for the small crop, and the IBIS is bit weaker than on 4K.

  17. 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

    yikes. I would love to hear @deezid with his observation on this. Thanks for pointing out. Gh5 got mushy from iso 1600 on. Not a pretty sight.

    The noise reduction in 4K is not an issue if you don't zoom in your video, but I usually do this ... Sony also uses a lot of noise reduction even in the A7SIII. The GH6 is doing a nice job at reducing noise while keeping some details but there is no way to really remove the noise reduction if you don't shoot RAW. 

    However, the 5,7k is great, there is less noise reduction and the image is very nice, but I was surprised that nobody said there is a very slight crop in this mode.

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