Jonesy Jones

One of the more significant announcements from today is the upcoming Panny Leica 10-25mm 1.7 lens. This will be a brilliant lens for this camera. Too bad there is no OIS. But still, looking forward to pricing and availability. https://***URL removed***/news/9248867492/panasonic-is-developing-a-10-25mm-f1-7-lens-for-micro-four-thirds

Sorry @mercer for the brief off topic question, but I am likely going to produce some real estate videos in the near future and am looking to do some research on well crafted real estate videos. @Jadesroom could you point me in the direction of some good ones?

Great to have you back Ed. Thanks for the test. What I noticed is that the UMP tends toward magenta. The Canon is more neutral/green. It could be my bias but the UMP seems to render the gradients better with more dimension. But both images are superb. In a blind test I'd never have a clue.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is way more specialized than any of us really understand. Like mapping the human genome specialized. Maybe not quite, but I think BM went down a rabbit trail that probably seems ludicrous to the other guys. I kind of doubt they'll follow. The only downside is that I think going forward in the future this could delay future camera releases. From here on out we'll all assume that each new BM camera comes stock with .braw, I mean it's their own codec right? But the amount of hours it takes to specialize to each sensor/camera is probably massive. So either it takes longer to get to market, or its released without .braw. I hope I'm wrong.

BM has said they would. Any reason to think they won't? From watching the video, what I gather is that this raw codec is HIGHLY specialized to the sensor and camera. Like way more specialized than any other raw format ever has been. It has taken them 2+ years to get where they are now. I don't think this will be a drag and drop thing for the P4K. It only makes sense for them to go for the original UM 4.6K first since the sensor tech is so similar to the UMP. I hope they then go with the P4K. Very jealous. I want my UMP back. lol I'm thinking BM has done something, who knows, maybe even on accident, with this new .braw. I have no idea about any of this tech, but I am wondering if the de-mosaic work being done in camera is doing something special to the footage. It's stunning.

I've owned nearly every BM camera, but at present none, though the P4K is pre-ordered. The UMP image was amazing. Absolutely stunning. I did not own it for too long as Andrew wrote an article about how our enlarged rigs were decreasing production value instead of increasing. I agreed. Bought a GH5, which is also great, and sold the UMP. I'm kind of regretting that now because the image coming out of that camera with the new .braw is more than stunning. Dare I say it's film. I realize that in a side by side the Alexa or Venice would probably win, but would they also beat film? There is something extremely special about the footage coming out the UMP with .braw. I am not expecting the P4K to be it's equal, but so far it's already coming very close, we'll see what happens when .braw is added.

Here's another example of b-raw. Guys, this is just magical to me. On one hand the data rate savings is massive, but this codec has done something to the look of this camera. It's different. Better. I used to say that this camera (UMP) was my favorite image under $40K, I think it is now my favorite image.

This is incorrect. Whoever put this together was not using apples and oranges. BM's specs are in MegaBytes, Panny's are in Megabits. So, you could say that the P4K is 270 MB/s (actually 272) and GH5s is 50 MB/s, or P4K is 2,176 Mb/s and GH5s is 400 Mb/s. Also of note, BM uses an FPS of 30. Not sure why they do this. Is this standard? Not sure what Panny uses. Anyway, since many of us are shooting 24 fps the data rates are 20% lower. So with any of BM's data rate specs multiply by .8 for it's 24p equiv data rate. So 272 MB/s would actually be 218 MB/s (then multiply by 8 for it's Megabit equiv --- 1,744 Mb/s). (Use .83 for 25p). For comparison, BM's DCI 4K Prores LT runs at 43.7 MB/s compared to GH5s 50. So pretty similar.

Maybe BM are looking for reviewers that aren't completely Napolean from the waste down.

I can't see all three if those happening internally.

So I posted this in a new thread not realizing this was probably the better place for it. The new updated Tamron 15-30mm lens has some cool features for filmmakers. Though a very large lens. About a half pound heavier and inch long than Sigma 18-35 for reference. "Integrated rear filter holder permits working with cut gel-type filters." To me this sounds like one could drop in ND's in the back of the lens. Nifty. The front has the integrated hood so filters in general will need a Lee type filter system of some sort or a diy one like this. So this is a handy feature. Canon mount only though. "VC image stabilization helps to minimize the appearance of camera shake by up to 4.5 stops for more effective handheld shooting in difficult lighting conditions." I have been noticing that Tamron's in-lens IS is pretty much class leading. I'm not expecting GH5 IBIS level stabilization, but this could make handheld on the P4K way mo betta. The coatings on this thing seem to be pretty sweet. Coupled with the Metabones .64 speedbooster on the P4K this becomes a FF equiv T2 18-35mm, with the .71 its a 20-40mm, and with no boost its a T3 28-60mm.... with a close focus of 11" which is like 5" from the front of the lens. I've been looking at images from the first version and it seems like all that glass make for some very creamy imagery. Covers FF. Build quality seems to be great. I'm hoping the focus ring is smoove and the throw isn't too short (which might kill it for me). It's pricey. BTW, who here has experience with these IS lenses? How well do they actually work for video? I'm getting mixed impressions from online reviews. For instance, the Sigma 17-50 has videos showing it working well, but others showing it being jerky. Tamron's IS seems to be the best. But is it actually usable? Right now I'm on trying to work in one of these lenses for the sake of IS, but if it's not really going to get used much or at all then I can check that off the list.

@DBounce for the last several months you've been preparing us all for some major omissions from this camera's promoted specs. At this point do you think BM has delivered, or is it still too early to tell?

Granted, this lens is huge. If you are looking for small and stealth, probably not this lens. Half a pound heavier and an inch longer than the Sigma 18-35 for reference. However, check out some of these features for filmmaking. "Integrated rear filter holder permits working with cut gel-type filters." To me this sounds like one could drop in ND's in the back of the lens. Nifty. The front has the integrated hood so filters in general will need a Lee type filter system of some sort or a diy one like this. So this is a handy feature. Canon mount only though. "VC image stabilization helps to minimize the appearance of camera shake by up to 4.5 stops for more effective handheld shooting in difficult lighting conditions." I have been noticing that Tamron's in-lens IS is pretty much class leading. I'm not expecting GH5 IBIS level stabilization, but this could make handheld on the P4K way mo betta. The coatings on this thing seem to be pretty sweet. Coupled with the Metabones .64 speedbooster on the P4K this becomes a FF equiv T2 18-35mm, with the .71 its a 20-40mm, and with no boost its a T3 28-60mm.... with a close focus of 11" which is like 5" from the front of the lens. I've been looking at images from the first version and it seems like all that glass make for some very creamy imagery. Covers FF. Build quality seems to be great. I'm hoping the focus ring is smoove and the throw isn't too short (which might kill it for me). It's pricey.

You didn't mention budget. Apparently you have money to burn. This is good because Cineo lights are expensive but super powerful. Crazy powerful. Probably not HMI level, but stinking bright. The are similar to LED tech but it's called phosphor. I've played with them at NAB and also watched Alex Buono recreate a day scene shooting one of these through a faux window in a dark hotel event room. From the camera's point of view it looked like day. They are small enough to put in a suitcase, but very pricey. On the cheap, you can buy outdoor/exterior parking led lights. These lights get brighter, better quality, and cheaper. Last time I looked they seemed to be very powerful, but low cri. You could diffuse or gel. Or maybe they've gotten better.

Yup. I'm selling my GH5 for the P4K. But I love my GH5 and have thought that I'd love to have one of each for the sake of IBIS. Perhaps I'll pick one up again. Btw, I knew you were going to offer this, and I've many times thought you should create transformations from many different cameras to each other. I'm guessing there's a good deal of time and work that goes into that, but you could eventually build up an ecosystem that would make matching nearly any camera to any camera nearly effortless, and valuable.

Joey Knox, the filmmaker for the mountain bike piece mentioned that the battery life was actually pretty good. This is encouraging. I have been disliking all the smaller power options, but if the P4K gets half of what Joey describes I'll just stick with the LPE6's. “My only concern was it used Canon LP6 batteries. I know from shooting on a 5D they can be a real issue in terms of battery life. But to my surprise, the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K worked amazingly with these batteries. On the first day, I managed to shoot half a day’s footage with just one battery. It was a third-party battery too!”

Yah man. These videos keep getting better. This camera is no joke.

Don't know if everyone has seen this, but BM is allowing us to download the files for ALL of the sample videos posted. Before I found this I had only seen the download feature enabled for one of John's videos. But they can all be downloaded here. - https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/gallery

Haven't been keeping up with this thread but the impression I get is that Panasonic knows they need to go with a larger sensor but doing so could wreck their m43 ecosystem and user base. What if they skipped full frame and went medium format? The gap between the two would be significant enough for neither to cannibalize the other. Man if they could democratize medium format that would be cool.

Nope. 28-70 f2.6.

I'm thinking this is a case of us debating about something that we actually agree on. One group is saying this new camera is missing the BMCC/BMPCC mojo. The other group is saying that they agree but this is ok because they believe that look will still be obtainable if desired, just not straight ooc (keep in mind we still have yet to see footage straight ooc). For the group that wants the og mojo/magic/whatever, 2 things. First, I really believe you'll be able to get something closer to that if you want it. Use vintage lenses, possibly a desharpening filter, and grade the way you want it. Second, why not just buy a BMPCC or BMMCC? Many of these folks say they don't even care about 4K. Why would need a new version of the old camera? One can be had for very inexpensive on the used market, the other can be rigged anyway you like it. Point being, you already have your camera. I believe BM's goal with this camera is for it to be closer to the UMP than the original Pocket, and for good reason. URSA Micro would have probably been a better name. This new camera gives you more options than the original pocket. 4K. Higher FPS. Similar/same DR. Better/truer color science. New OS. Better audio options. Better battery. Better lowlight. LUT support, even baked in LUTS. Multiple recording options. Obviously the image itself is priority #1, and until these things are out in the wild we will not be able to make any definitive decisions about this. But I am part of group 2 at this point. I am very encouraged by the footage and believe this camera will be able to take me anywhere I need to go. On another note, @CaptainHook or @John Brawley I have a couple questions regarding functionality of this camera. Is this camera able to transfer files in camera? Say I shoot on a card but don't have a reader with me, but I do have a USB C device. Is it possible to transfer footage to the USB C device in camera? How does the stills function work, just by pressing the shutter button? Does it just record these as DNG's? Can the stills function work while recording video? How about fan noise? How noticeable has it been? How about ISO/ASA noise? I've noticed it a bit, even what almost looked like FPN in one of John's pieces. It hasn't bothered me because I really have to look for it. But I'm just wondering if you could talk about that more. Maybe compare it to one of the other BM cameras. If I buy this camera, will all of my wildest dreams come true? If I plaster BM stickers and posters all over town and prove to you that I am a worthy filmmaker, will you let me test one of your future new cameras? Thanks guys.

I kinda don't get what you're saying. What BM is delivering is more difficult to achieve (not necessarily better). The 'aesthetic' some are looking for I think will be easily attainable. I do think it would behoove BM to let Olan Collardy shoot and grade a short piece. I GUARA-FRIGGIN-TEE everyone's perception of the 'look' will suddenly shift massively.

Groan.

So this is not entirely related to your comment there, but do we know the 35mm stills crop factor equivalent of the P4K? I know its roughly 2x, but I thought I remember it being slightly better actually.

Oh man. You're right. I was watching the prores footage as well but quicktime was downscaling it and I was getting moire from that. Just opened and viewed the prores file at 100% in AE and no moire. Phew! Still interested in the moire thing though. I wonder if JB or Captain Hook would be able to comment on that.