Laurier

If you get a a7siii, shoot on vintage or not too sharp lenses, and get the luts from https://www.joelfamularo.com/colour-a7s3  (or use the official SLOG type A lut from sony as a free alternative), it will be as cinematic as it can be. 

Modern lenses have way too much contrast, and cinema cameras tend to have stronger low pass filters than still cameras (the ones on RED cameras are extremely strong for exemple), the cinematic feel is all about softness and contrast in the shadow.

I had a power surge recently and fried both my 2 monitors ( lg 31mu97-b) I was quite disappointed by them ( one was more blue than the other, had some banding , and even calibrating with a Xrite did not fix it entirely)

I ended up replacing them with 2 BenQ PD2700U , so far I m happy with them, very straight forward and good price, the only issue is that they have some vignetting in the extreme corners.

I had the original 4.6k ( so with a Dual Gain Fairchild sensor) and a a7rii at the same time few years ago, the a7rii actually had more dynamic in the highlight in slog2. 

Of course the codecs on the 4.6k were a lot more solid, but nowadays with 10 bits 4.2.2 in most cameras, something like a a7siii do clearly better than a ursa mini pro.

Out of the camera, the images from Blackmagic are more pleasing because of the colour science , but purely in term of data quality Sony sensors are doing much better.

If you know what you are doing in post you can make very pleasing images out of Sony cameras, the problem with Sony is that their official LUT are just crap overall ( the most usable one is the typeA IMO), and most of the profiles have way to much contrast making the images look very harsh. 

The real value in an Alexa for me is that you can put whatever lens on it, shoot log C, just slap the official lut and it look great, you pay more for the camera, but you could technically pay less in post.

I went a7siii + a7rii for photos ( and B-cam if necessary), the only thing missing thing on the a7siii is internal NDs, but then I got two variable NDs that live on the lenses I use the most, so that not really an issue.

I also got a couple of NanLite PavoTube , the form factor is great and they can run on internal batteries.

I m very happy that the all my gear can fit in a backpack + 1 large tripod bag.

If you are going to do a lot of weddings, low light is going to be important , very often you won t be able to control the lighting.

8 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

BTW... when using the ProRes RAW on your Windows computer, say to edit in Premiere or Resolve, you will need to download this from Apple:  https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2020/windows/001-36880-20200831-dd7a918b-e5de-4145-add4-c835639d9476/ProResRAW.msi

So far, I am seeing about 6GB per 1 minute in ProRes RAW HQ.  But let me do several more tests first. In case I have a setting wrong.  At first the Ninja V was estimating 48 minutes, and this is more like 166 minutes, which really is phenominal.  But like I said hang on, don't quote me yet.  This is all very early in my testing.

I m considering getting a ninja V  for the a7siii as well,

Could you share a small ProRes Raw clip of a challenging condition ? like shooting/someone or something in front of a window, I would like to see how much you can recover in the highlight, if there is a benefit compared to internal recording.

Cheers. 

2 minutes ago, Batteries said:

I've been looking at R5 and A7S III videos all day and the main thing that sticks out to me is how off the colors look. On the A7S III people look dead  and on the R5 people look unnatural, they just pop out from the rest of the image. To Canon's credit, at least what they are doing with skin tones can be considered somewhat pleasant, despite it obviously not being right. Not sure why this is as the Venice, FX9, C500 Mk II, C300 Mk II all have great color so obviously Canon and Sony know what good color is, just not putting it on hybrid cameras. Blackmagic Pocket Cameras, Fujifilm XT-3/4, Panasonic S1, S1H, Newer Red's not including Komodo's, Zcams, and obvioulsy all Alexas all have great colors. Sure they all look different but nothing really pops out as being unnatural. I know that one can push images towards almost any direction in color grading but there is something off with these new offerings from Sony and Canon. At least with the R5 one could argue that there color while off looks pleasant on skintones.

Maybe someone could educate me as I am not the most technical person, but why do blackmagic and fujifilm cameras look so good despite having seemingly inferior dynamic range compared to the A7S III? It's not a rhetorical question as the A7S III looks like a great camera that has a lot of what I'm looking for but I hate having to fight with colors in post. I really wish Sony would have given us FX9 or Venice like colors. I've yet to see a video from either the R5 or A7S III that has colors even remotely as nice as their elder brothers in larger pro video form factors. In contrast the images from the S1H marry really well with the professional cameras from Panasonic. It seems like the price you pay for having the great AF from R5/6 or an A7S III is colors that just look off or having to deal with it in post.

Because people using a Venice, FX9, C500 Mk II, C300 Mk II usually know what they are doing 😛 .

A lot of youtubers have to clue of how to handle footage, the Highlights are clipping hard on a lot of videos and that not pleasing, but I blame the user, not the camera.

I shoot all those on a A7rii/A7iii and you can get the skin to look nice , it a bit more work than blackmagic but it s possible and that was all on 8 bits codecs internal ( except the anamorphic one), So I m confidant that you can do even better with 10 bits 4.2.2

6 minutes ago, phoberus said:

Does it have S-Cinetone curve or can we expect better skintones compared to a a7iii?

You can have the Cinetone colours with Sony official lut when using Slog-3 Sgammut 3.

S-cinetone curve + Gammut baked in camera actually have less DR than Slog3 on the FX9

6 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

The RS seems better on the R5 that is crazy but I think it was tested in 60fps but I'm not sure....

It think it s on the 60fps too, but that line skipped so you get more moiree issues and potentially a less detailed image , it s the same thing on my A7rii, the readout is faster in full frame, but IQ is lower than super 35.

1 minute ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

16-bit external could be the diamond in the rough here depending on how exactly that pans out.... as well as how good the AF is. My impression is that while Sony might not be knocking on Canon’s door with the FX9 AF, they’re definitely standing on the doorstep. If this new camera has the same/similar performance, it might be the “best kid on the block” so to speak... in the mirrorless hybrid category. The advantages of large photosites shouldn’t be ignored either. It’s not the “FX9 in an a7 body” that everyone was dreaming of, but if those caveats mean that it is a rock-solid performer without quirks, that’s probably worth the few omissions. 
 

As an aside... where is everyone right now on BRaw vs ProRes Raw? I’ve found the BRaw/Resolve experience to be nothing short of revolutionary, where in contrast, ProRes Raw (at least in my price market) lives almost exclusively on external recorders, and isn’t supported by Davinci (the industry standard color software). My gut tells me BRaw is ultimately the cleaner system, but maybe I’m wrong. Regardless, when are all the other camera manufacturers going to band together and legally swat down Red’s BS? This “no internal Raw” is getting old.

Braw was fantastic when I was using it with my G2, but for the A7siii I will probably record internally and transcode to DNxHR ( the form factor is why I m making the switch ) .

I did a few projects with a A7iii shooting HLG and it was very correct in post, so hopefully with the 10 bits 4.2.2 + high bitrate we will be able to correct colour balances and exposure disparities without damaging the images too much. 

2 minutes ago, cameraeye said:

This was one of the things I WAS most excited about with the R5 and using ef glass and their adapter. Native AF with variable ND for all my lenses.

(edit: don't mean to go off topic)

I actually just got something similar for my Sony kit, DEO-Tech OWL Canon EF Lens to Sony E-mount Drop-In Filter Adapter , Kipon does one too with AF but it s more expensive.

I used a S1h for a project, the only advantage would be the IBS for me. The 6k image is not as good as the 4k image and the 60fps crop is just annoying as it s force you to change lenses to get coverage.
The S1H is seriously large for an hybrid. In the end I found it make little sense to use it over a BMPCC 6k.

Just now, zerocool22 said:

Was just expecting way more. This is just competing with the S1H that is already released a year ago, you would think they would crush the S1H. People are still wondering now if they should get an A7S III or an S1H, then its a sad release for me. Hopefully some good news will follow soon. Looks like the ump 12K is by far the most interesting camera this year (not talking about the resolution). 

They are crushing the S1H imo , the S1h crop in S35 for 60fps and don t do 120fps 4k , rolling shutter should be a lot better on the A7siii, it s almost half the weight and much smaller + Good AF

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

With the small budgets most music videos have, I doubt there is a huge demand for raw video there either. Unless it is a pet passion project, like you referred to before. 
 

HIGHLY doubt that

VENICE / FX9 are not the size they are for no reason whatsoever. 
FX9 isn't so old that tech has rapidly leaped forward to the extent the insides can be miniaturized into a little a7 body. 

 

Sony doesn't have a track record if giving big improvements via new firmware updates to their old cameras. (unless forced to, like what happened with the F5)

Thus I reckon this is highly unlikely the a7mk3 would get such an update. 

Maaaaybe if we were discussing Fuji instead, this would be a slim possibility. Perhaps. 

 

Well the Venice use the A9 sensor so that already few years old and their form factor is built for larger productions with all the require port and connections.

But once you remove the large empty space taken by the fans and those ports you can reduce the form factor significantly, so it s all down to thermal management. 

The FX9 can t even record 120 fps 4k internally  and the Venice can only do it in 2.39, they don t have physical IBS , the Venice do not have autofocus, and in low light the A7siii is probably going to be better ( but I would agree than the Fx9 and Venice are already great)

It s hard for me to understand why someone who need to record something for more than 30min would need a hybrid camera to start with, I mean that what C100/Fs5 are for and have much better ergonomics for interview/ event coverage.( especially regarding audio recording)

They are cheaper as well and have plug and play recording formats.

For me the advantage of a good hybrids are to be discreet and offer some help for run and gun situations ( stabilisation, good DR, descent codecs), and easy to carry around.

I shoot mostly MV and fashion related work ( did some interviews and video portraits as well as small commercials ), I on average the camera run for 2 to 3 minutes per take.

Keeping the camera recording non stop is plain stupid and end up being more expensive once you start editing.

3 minutes ago, scotchtape said:

"Exceed expectations" should become the new meme around here.

Looks like a decent if long-overdue update which really brings nothing new or mind blowing.  Hopefully it just works as intended.

Besides the 120fps 4K (that you need an external recorder for, so many people won't even bother), this is so underwhelming.

I am looking forward to finally having a FF cam with 4K60P and AF with manageable codecs so there's that, even though they could have released this camera a year or two ago without the 120FPS and it would have been actually exciting at the time.

I think 120fps is internal in 10 bits 4.2.2, If canon can manage 120fps 4k raw internal that possible.

I think on the leaked pictures its connected to a recorder just for monitoring.

If the rumours are correct we are getting something better than a Venice or a Fx9 in a much more compact package for less money, that quite mind blowing for me.

If they deliver, that would actually be my ideal camera, I loved the images from my G2, but the form factor/weight was really not ideal for me.

1 minute ago, Django said:

That’s what I’m saying, RS appears pretty darn good. 
 

Btw, those leaked “official” pics appears to be fake.

Apparently the top view is fake, the front and back are sourced from @nokishita_c , he is usually very reliable.

3 hours ago, Super8 said:

I know magenta cast or IR contamination can be removed. 

IR contamination shouldn't be in that 12K footage.   I'm sure @John Brawley should have seen it.  He wrote up that blog about it.  I'm sure BM has a few great colorist that should have caught it. Heck, the built in ND's are supposed to eliminate IR contamination. 

This is the reason ARRI, Canon and RED have clean color.   No company is perfect but these 3 companies seem to understand color science and working with the right sensor foundation. 

Black Magic seems to get the most out of sensors for lowest cost compared to any other camera company.   Instead of cutting corners they should just make sensors and cameras that get the best results at any cost. 

I'm begging to wonder if they have the engineers to pull of great color science. 

Take a look at the picture from BM website, someone thought that IR contamination was acceptable to showcase.

Yet you still hear people complain about the Alexa green cast, the Red yellow wash and the pinkish skin from canon colours.

Put a Zeiss lens you get a blue cast, put a canon or a Cooke you get yellow, but a sigma you loose some red/yellow ect...

Shoot on film, you get several colour cast depending which lab is going to develop .

If the image is striking , no one is complaining about the sky being the wrong shade of blue.

Once you cut through the marketing BS and learn how to use a grading suite, none of that matter.

As is , I think red is not relevant anymore.

I have the theory that the Komodo is a transition product made to preserve the image of the brand while introducing a lowering of their prices.

Red had some agreements with Foxcon to start manufacturing 8k cameras last year, I think they will release more aggressively priced cameras sooner or later to stay in competition.

3 hours ago, Chrille said:

It's fun that the rumored specs basically exceed the specs of Sonys flagship cinema camera (venice).   

Well the Venice sensor is the a9 sensor and is a few years old now.

Also, the market is clearly changing, so they need to stay relevant, One of sony executive said they are aware of what blackmagic is offering and at what price.

And it s a different market, individuals are not supposed to own a Venice and it s not made to be used by a single operator anyway, so you pay for the fact that it s a niche product and development cost.

I think that like Panasonic, Sony recently mixed more of the Camera with the broadcast division so they can share technologies.

2 minutes ago, SoerenM said:

Hm only thing Grant said about it in the video (as far as I remember) was that it's not the typical bayer pattern... but a variation... well it is definitely not a Foveon sensor so there is not really any other possibility

From what he said, I think it s probably a quad bayer .

I m a bit sceptical too, the DR is lower than the G2 and unless you shoot landscapes, who need that much resolution ? I spent two weeks softening models skins recently with footage from the 4.6k and that already too much if you use modern glass ( They are selling their new colour science with models with flawless skins, it s  nice but that not the norm )

I was more expecting a Phantom camera competitor, with that amount of data, they could have done a 1000fps 4k camera with no crop .

2 hours ago, bjohn said:

I'd love to see some suggested workflows for this lens. I bought it based on all the praise, but on my original Pocket Cinema Camera and the Micro Cinema Camera (with or without speedbooster) I almost always end up hating the look, even with Hollywood Blackmagic filters applied. Harsh, too contrasty, etc., at least outdoors. I've gotten some lovely indoor shots with controlled lighting. Maybe I should just forget about the filters and focus on what I can do in Resolve. I have the Tokina Angenieux model and like it much better but sometimes I need the low-light benefits of the Sigma.

In resolve, with modern Sigma lenses, assuming the shoot is correctly exposed, start by reducing the contrast ( probably by around 20%) , then use a bit of color boost to compensate the lost of color contrast ( also Sigma lenses tend to render skins a bit pale by default) , then lower the shadow only to get proper blacks.

You should get a more pleasing look, less harsh on the skin.

Filters make the bokeh dirty, usually add nasty flare, that not really desirable, and everything they do can be done in Resolve quite easily.

The bokeh , natural looking flares and complex distortions are really the only thing you cannot recreate in post easily.

The issues I have with vintage lenses is that a lot of them have a strong color cast and poor color separation that make them look muddy. ( I have tested a lot of different sets/brands, only the Contax Zeiss don t suffer too much from it)

Vintage wide angles ( usually from 25mm ) also tend to have very large amount of chromatic aberration and I find that often problematic.

Overall I like using the 35mm to 85mm for fashion work and full sets for black and white work, and I usually go for Russian glass wide open, as they have the most extreme bokeh.

But a sigma 18-35 with some distortion + vignetting + exponential glow + a film stock emulation will give you a nice vintage look if you want it, without all the issues of using vintage glass. ( and with much better colors )

On 5/29/2020 at 11:01 PM, Andrew Reid said:

How is EF the future? Give me mirrorless lenses all day long

It's not like people are short for good EF lenses

Most cine camera are still EF or PL, beside there are no affordable and relatively compact cine primes made for super 35 on the market in those mounts.

Yes there is Rokinon for EF but the built quality is terrible. ( the barrels get loose and you cant tighten them up because they are plastic.)

Still lenses have terrible throw in the 24mm and wider focals, and are usually 2.8 

I quite interested by a set that finally have a relatively fast and affordable 18mm .

I think 1899 is too much money, you can get a a7rii for 1200 new nowadays, beside the Raw codec ( that is nice on paper, but probably going to be unusable in production ), a a7rii will do everything else better. 

That camera should be priced between 1200-1500$ to be competitive.

Sigma should have made a native EF version of that camera ( they should have gone for EF as well for the Sigma sd Quattro ), because you need to spend and extra 250 to use common glass on it.

I don t see anyone jumping on the L-mount system just because of that camera.