Danyyyel

I think he was talking about N-RAW versus h265. The bitrates for N-RAW are here - https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z9/en/06_video_recording_02.html#id226OJ0Y0V5Z - 4.1k at 24 p is 350 Mb/s in Normal quality mode.

I thought the same, until I tested a bit the 4.1 K (pixel skipping) of my z9 as I calculated that it was about 350 mb/s bitrate  (I dont know if it is capital M or small m), compared to about 200 mb/s the h.265. Another surprise was that it played better using Resolve than H.265. For me this has been my defacto standard for higher end work.
I must do some more test about DR etc. to know what loss compared to 8k. Which I think is just too much. If I could get a 4k or 6k raw camera, I would be super happy or with the likes of Redraw higher compression. 

Would Nikon go to such a small niche market like this, that is PL mount lens. I personally think they envision a Sony like lineup from red in the future. Option one would be to start just above the z9 price bracket with a new Komodo directly in competition with the Sony FX6. A 6k global shutter camera with a video camera form factor with XLR input, timecode etc. but this time it would include Nikon super good autofocus, Stabilization, CFexpress memory, Z mount and if possible internal ND. I don't know if their is enough space for the later. 
This type of camera, will be the type of high volume camera, that Nikon can use to make with little change some Cine like Z mount lens, because lets not forget, while the Z mount are the most adaptable lens mount, the Z lens are the least because of this.  

I thought the same, until I tested a bit the 4.1 K (pixel skipping) of my z9 as I calculated that it was about 350 mb/s bitrate  (I dont know if it is capital M or small m), compared to about 200 mb/s the h.265. Another surprise was that it played better using Resolve than H.265. For me this has been my defacto standard for higher end work.
I must do some more test about DR etc. to know what loss compared to 8k. Which I think is just too much. If I could get a 4k or 6k raw camera, I would be super happy or with the likes of Redraw higher compression. 

I, for one, can say that I enjoy having internal raw available (even if I don't always use it) and that I have little or no use for 8kp120.  
I'd also say "Nikon won't enforce their new patent" and "they'll probably license it" are completely incompatible statements.  If they don't enforce it, other companies would be stupid to pay for a license.  Even if Nikon fought to invalidate the patent in the past, now that they own it, there's a decent chance that their opinions on the validity of the patent have evolved.

I see Nikon differentiating factor will be mainly the form factor. If you want a hybrid camera that will need some  rigging to be pro video camera complete, you will have the z6iii or Z8. For proper video camera, you will have a komodo with XLR input, more than two audio input, timecode, big battery, multiple monitoring possibility.
I see Nikon moving at least the Komodo as an Sony FX6 style camera, With dials for audio etc. I don't know if the Nikon flange distance can be enough for a internal ND. But I think, at least for RED ussers, their will be less resistance to moving the Komodo to a more all rounder Cinema/Eng format than the higher models that are more cinema box models. 
In the longer term I see RED becoming basically a R&D center for red/Nikon video. The manufacturing of at least the lower end models will be done in Nikon facilities. 

I wanted to add.
In the longer term I see RED becoming basically a R&D center for red/Nikon video. The manufacturing of at least the lower end models will be done in Nikon facilities. Red will still design the sensors for at RED cameras, and perhaps some Nikon cameras. While Nikon the Xspeed chip and other things like viewfinder etc. This will bring immense economies of scale. If next Nikon camera has a 8k and 6k FF global shutter sensor sensor, that can be also used in RED cameras. Rather than a few thousands sensor for RED, they would beneficiate from the fabrication of hundred of thousands of chip, same if they use lets say a new Xspeed 8 sensor. 
I don't think Nikon will stop using Sony sensors in most of its cameras, but in some of the higher end. Like a 24 megapixel global shutter sensor in a Z9h to compete against the Sony A9iii. I can totally see this. 

From what I read on this forum, Clog flavours on their hybrids lag behind their counterparts C300 II and Mark III even moreso. R5 in Raw does perform same latitude as S1H in its h264 codec in test by German test site slashcam, but less in dynamic range according to Cined tests.
NRaw has been a bit of a riddle in post to some youtubers due to akward Nlog curve. But an Aces or other adequate workflow should solve that. It has almost the same but even a tiny bit better latitude than a S1H and the same as C70 Raw according to slashcam, bettering also a R5 in that same test.
Colour fidelity is supposely astonishing.
Nikon has put out convincing 8bit video hybrids with the Z6/7. Even their HD Dslrs D750 and 850 have been 8bit video marvels, such as their Apsc D5300, 5500, 7500. So they are no newbies regarding convincing image quality in video. @ghostwind
That is only talking about image quality, not even mentioning full Hdmi, sturdiness, internal Prores besides Nraw.
Nikon had a few aces in their sleeve during their law case with Red. You could find all about that in the insightful Eoshd thread about that topic. @Jedi Master

With today's news, I feel like I made the right choice going with the Z9s, not just for now, but for the future. 

It's perfectly unclear here what kind of Sony sensors Nikon use or to what extent any modifications are made by Sony sensor engineers or team Nikon themselves. And neither will tell you the truth.

I know a lot of people still watching 720p on their TV, or even SD, without any problem. I personally, don't think the likes of 8k will be sought by customers, but they will get it because as today you nearly can't find a 720p television even if you wanted to. My guess people are more keen and see more qualitative difference in the size of display rather than pixel. 
I think the shift into VR is a bit of a pipe dream. I see it more in gaming, and these are more about gpu speed and 3d generation. 

I think if we look at the Komodo which is around the price of a C70, uses RF mount and has AF, it gives us basis to speculate that future entry level RED cams with Nikon tech and Asian manufacturing could venture out of the high-end cine market and compete with Canon & Sony C/FX line.  
And reverse wise Nikon high-end cams will benefit from Redcode and other ciné savoir-faire like color science, anamorphic support, open gate etc.. it also finally gives Nikon users an upgrade path to a cine line and creates a more viable ecosystem. 
That is great news for consumers and further increases my desire to switch to Nikon. 

People keep talking about the patent, but I really don't think it is the reason behind the purchase at all.
Nikon wants to get into the video/cinema market. Their recent releases are evidence of that. They have very little chance though of getting a foothold in the market on their own. Purchasing RED, even though it lags behind ARRI and probably even Sony, makes a lot more sense than creating something on their own from scratch that will likely fail.
Major blockbusters and shows are filmed using RED cameras. Tons of independent films are shot on RED cameras. It has a loyal user base. Those are reasons enough for any company looking to get into the cinema/video market to purchase them instead of starting from scratch. Will it work? Who knows, but it's a better building block than what they had to work with. Better to own the company whose camera was used to film blockbusters like Guardians of the Galaxy and Aquaman than to release a cinema camera that will see minimal adoption,

You are right, they can do a better one, with better sensor tech, better Z mount, better stabilization, better internal codec etc. 

Looks pretty amazing. Where could they go from here?
 
Hopefully they also make some TC receivers that add onto the system to sync multiple cameras.

(0% of usser including me are expecting and complaining about 10 bit h264 internal not RAW. I don't understand that obsession about size unless you want to do spy shots. I mean I can shoot RAW video with cameras that is smaller than my last dslr Nikon D750 and a flash on it. In fact I prefer and camera with an external recorder than one with all internal WOW spec that will overhead. In a any narrative, high end commercial and documentary filming where I think RAW can be warranted, those size a ridiculously small. I mean the z6 + ninja V might be barely bigger than a Canon 5d mark ii.  So what has happened those last decade, everyone has become so much older that they can't hold less than a kilogram. 

Exactly, sometimes people don't understand those simple logic. Companies have to do some profits. I am very critical Nikon did not put 10 bit internal in these cameras, I guess they thought as they give you the choice external, and that the 8bit internal is extremely good, people would not bother. But now I see people complaining why it is not internal or $ 200 dollar upgrade. I mean in two years we went from 8bit to 12 bit raw in 2000 usd FF hybrid camera. Largely because of Nikon. It's been like 5 years people have been complaining that we were stuck with 8bit (which is right) and only now that you got the likes of Sony and Canon giving 10 bit etc. and people are still complaining.
 
 

Sincerely, how can people complain that much I don't understand. I am hyper critical of not putting 10bit but for RAW update how can people complain. The original z6 came out 2 years ago for 2300 USD, the z7 for 3300. Now the new one is 2000 and the z7 2700 usd. It means that for example the z6ii is cheaper, while having 60p 4k and better AF, dual card slot etc than the original one including the firmware update. You are comparing it to the Panasonic S1H  which is 4000 usd. That is twice the price and I don't even know if it has 60 fps RAW.

Good luck to them, when their camera overheats their photographers Videographers will be super happy. 

Kinda smells this way. Just like YouTubers getting thousands of dollars of free gear and say they aren't getting paid! They then openly resell it on eBay. Total bullshit.

They want to say Sony didn't pay us to choose Sony. 

I think Canon color science is lovely, right behind ARRI. However they've never really made serious cinema cameras. ARRI is certainly the best with RED, kinda. Most people doing high end work look down on RED. Honestly the Sony Venice seems to have a much better rapport than any RED camera with high end stuff. I've heard a ton of good things about the Venice while RED is constantly hated on.

 I was kind of warming up to the R5C. One big benefit of the camera is the fast readout for low rolling shutter effect in 4k. Dynamic range isn't as good as the C70 though and the micro HDMI makes it a no go for me. How can you sell a $4,500 camera with micro HDMI.

 I still have yet to see a camera that can really do anything against my Arri Alexa, besides resolution. I just don't give a damn about resolution. The Netflix 4k thing is pretty dumb IMO. Almost all big hollywood stuff is shot in 4k anyways and Netflix productions are big money. Renting an Alexa LF or other 4k cine camera is pennies and dimes compared to the cost of the entire production.

(0% of usser including me are expecting and complaining about 10 bit h264 internal not RAW. I don't understand that obsession about size unless you want to do spy shots. I mean I can shoot RAW video with cameras that is smaller than my last dslr Nikon D750 and a flash on it. In fact I prefer and camera with an external recorder than one with all internal WOW spec that will overhead. In a any narrative, high end commercial and documentary filming where I think RAW can be warranted, those size a ridiculously small. I mean the z6 + ninja V might be barely bigger than a Canon 5d mark ii.  So what has happened those last decade, everyone has become so much older that they can't hold less than a kilogram. 

Any one ever saw a iPhone teardown?

It is a battery, a tiny mainboard, two or 3 camera modules, screen module and some connectors. The BOM cost for this in the iPhone 12 Pro is US$406 (https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_12_pro_bom_come_up_to_406-news-46442.php), probably much less, since Apple could get massive discounts buying it in bunch. Let's say it goes to US$300.

Almost no mechanical adjustments needed, the assembly might be very cheap. Easily the profit is around 300% per unit.

Now get a Nikon camera, see the immense complexity of it, the much higher price of a much bigger sensor (made in fractions of quantity of smaller smartphone chips), the amount of mechanical adjustments needed, which translates in much costly labor.

Probably the profit is MUCH lower, with more complexity, and in 2019 Nikon sold around 1.73 million units between DSLR and mirrorless. Apple sold around 37,7 million units of the iPhone 11 in the FIRST HALF of 2020.

My bets is that they don't give a damn to the traditional camera market.

WOW at lease one poster who has some insight. Panasonic and Fuji are at 4-5% of the market, 4 to 5x lower than Nikon and Nikon is neck in neck with Sony. Guess what its Nikon that is going to die. Then they tell you, but Canon Sony Panasonic form part of bigger companies.............. While Nikon forms part of the Mitsubishi Kieretsu, the biggest, bigger than Sony, Panasonic, Canon etc group in Japan, with one of its investors being the biggest bank in Japan. Nikon has been positive until last year and was sitting on more than 2 billions in cash in 2017 at least. They even have been bullish about their 2021-2022 numbers predicting profits for their imaging division as this big loss is a one time write off so as to make the cmpany leaner as they want to adapt to an ever declining market. They also have invested a lot into new field like lidar technology.
The fumy thing is people using market share as a metric of progress. Tell that to Sony who where selling 5x more cameras in 2010 with 5-8% market share than today with about 20%. How much time do people think Sony corp will be happy as a non historic camera manufacturer to continue to invest and surely incur loss in a camera business. Is Nikon in great shape, definitely not, but they are in much better shape than other manufacturers like Panasonic, fuji and even Sony. One has only 5% at best, the other one is now stagnating at about 20% since Nikon and Canon have launched their Mirrorless lineup. Even more, because it is in an ever smaller market.
Olympus the perfect example of the non sense about Nikon death. While for the last 3-5 years we are hearing how Nikon will die soon, Olympus who no one predicted, just went out. Nikon has always been positive until last year. Their profitability or even loss started in the imaging division started last year but with massive investment in R&D. What people here don't know as they concentrate on only camera bodies. Nikon has released 18 outstanding lens during the last 2 years. They have another 6 until next year, that will be 24 lens in 3 years. This is an investment on the next decade to 15 years, those lens are so good with the advantage of the bigger new mount. They also have build 6 bodies during that time and are heavily predicted that at least 1 if not 2 pro bodies next year. Meanwhile what has the likes of Sony produce. My simple guess, is that we will see Panasonic, then Sony and then the likes of Fuji, and I would put Nikon just before Canon to quit the camera industry. The likes of Canon, Nikon and to a certain extent Fuji are historic camera manufacturers. Sony was just opportunistic on a booming market, now that it is going down and down, they will soon quite, by selling it to stop the loss.