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Andrew Reid

First Sony A7R II user experiences - global shutter and native ISO 800?

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If I wanted a camera that shot sharp 1080p using binned 4K internal images, had XLR inputs, could run for a while on a big battery, took professional glass, and output probably the best 28mbs image I could grade using any software...what camera would that be?  It would be the Canon C100.  I have a BMPCC and a Sony A7 and A6000 and I've looked at C100 stuff from my friend's camera--it's beautiful.   

The real problem people have, who complain that Canon isn't keeping up, isn't that the Canon C100 is a bad camera, it's that these consumer cameras, for all their 4K, RAW, in-camera stabilization, etc., STILL CANNOT deliver a no-fuss beautiful image.  

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I would've liked for Canon to have ripped out the mirror and OVF on the 760D and to have gone with an EVF and 4K. Same for Nikon with their D5500 (as a hybrid shooter I find the D5300 especially frustrating on this front, liveview shooting experience is terrible, my first OVF camera and it felt like a huge step back (image is trully great though)). Not something EOS M or Nikon V, but more like Panasonic's GH4 and Samsung's NX1. Nice ergonomic sizeable body with a bunch of controls and buttons. Decent if not good batterylife. Vari-angle display is a must I'd say!

The 550D/T2i, 7D and 5DmkII really started something. But since then... boy o boy. They sure milked that 18MP sensor, didn't they? And I mean... from the 650D to the 700D they've added a dial to not only turn clockwise but also counter clockwise, filter effect preview in liveview and a different rubber coating. That's all they did and a 'new' model was born. Atleast the Nikons have gotten 1080/60p and atleast the 1080p actually looks great there. Now, finally there's a new sensor... but has anything else really changed? There's HDR video on the 760D! Yay! Oh, wait, it's 720p restricted. What else? Well, not much really. Pretty much the same functionality as before. Why would anyone want to start off their path with Canon anymore? I'm afraid Aaron's right. People just don't know any better and video enthusiasts like us only form a relatively small target audience. That's why I'm glad Panasonic, Sony, Samsung and Blackmagic aren't forgetting about us/are glad that they have a stake in the availlability of 4K material. I would be interested if they could recreate the success of the T2i and 5DmkII. One entry level and one more professional level camera that would hold a 2015/2016 standard. But then again, even if they did, given their trackrecord... would you really put your money on Canon still? Yes, their C-line is quite something, but let's not forget, so is the price... And with a lot of people shooting hybrid, have to keep it low budget or just want a small solution or just need stuff like slowmo... you're better served elsewhere.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Two pieces of information:

-It has less rolling shutter not ''eliminated'' or ''Global".

-Raw Format is not changed from previous A7r/A7/A7s/A7II. 

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Last month was a breath of fresh air, interesting conversation about filmmaking... Back to square one with the anti canon clickbait

Shame, good forum and you post decent info, but the Canon clickbait is tiresome.

Bored... Over and out

​I thought you guys hated the direction I took the discussion in - that's why I banned myself and left.  Jimmy you were one of the people who directly critisized and ridiculed me, right?

Oh well.

Please do not anatagonize Andrew - this is his blog - if you don't like it, so be it.  It's a free service he provides.  I'm sure he doesn't appreciate someone coming into his house and talking poorly about how he does things.

If he wants to bash Canon, let him bash them.

Sony needs all the help they can get - they are in financial trouble.  I don't know about Canon - but some pro-Sony news is welcome.  But I agree, why bash any camera manufacturer - and the 5d launched the revolution of cheap affordable and easy DOF without using a depth of field adapter that cost 2 stops of loss.

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Last month was a breath of fresh air, interesting conversation about filmmaking... Back to square one with the anti canon clickbait

Shame, good forum and you post decent info, but the Canon clickbait is tiresome.

Bored... Over and out

​Guys guys -- can't we all get along -- LOL -

seriously - Jimmy the Canon deal was about marketing the VDSLRs ( at the 3k and below market) - they went after that market more aggressively then did NIKON and it gave users an expectation of Canon's commitment to that space.  ITs not a mystery - just look at the amount of accessories that came to market that were "For Canon" EOS cameras.  It was not just users but developers that got that message. Users and developers and the Canon market share exploded.  Id love a remote to run the functions of my GH4 but the only affordable versions still .. only work with Canon.   Canon can do whatever they want, but within the context of "video"  the Canon and NIKON story are simply not the same.  Agree or not, some users felt that Canon set the market up, worked hard to sell the ____ out of it, got tons of users to invest in the Canon eco-system then walked away.  

BTW this happens where markets are concerned its a risk you always take period......... but it explains whey people feel the way they do.

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Great Sony Interview !!! 

Finally uncompressed RAW. I like all his answers as well including the 4K quality in APSC and that the noise is better than A7R, and that even if 42 is not sexy like Canon 50mpx, they had to do this for the compromise for ISO, and 4K video. 

Good Sony ! You got it. Canon, you didn't. 

Sony interview and a good news: They are working on uncompressed RAW!

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Last month was a breath of fresh air, interesting conversation about filmmaking... Back to square one with the anti canon clickbait

Shame, good forum and you post decent info, but the Canon clickbait is tiresome.

Bored... Over and out

Please indulge us and make your "over and out" permanent! If you are so bored, start your own blog and see how that works for you...Easy to be a critic Jimmy, harder to produce. I for one am tired of your snot nosed, know it all or been there attitude. Oh, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

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Great Sony Interview !!! 

Finally uncompressed RAW. I like all his answers as well including the 4K quality in APSC and that the noise is better than A7R, and that even if 42 is not sexy like Canon 50mpx, they had to do this for the compromise for ISO, and 4K video. 

Good Sony ! You got it. Canon, you didn't. 

Sony interview and a good news: They are working on uncompressed RAW!

​The A7rii, the RX10 ii and RX100 iv all ship with compressed RAW. ARW 2.3

http://blog.esgi.co.uk/2015/06/sony-7r-ii-rx10-ii-rx100-iv-still-lossy.html

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​The A7rii, the RX10 ii and RX100 iv all ship with compressed RAW. ARW 2.3

http://blog.esgi.co.uk/2015/06/sony-7r-ii-rx10-ii-rx100-iv-still-lossy.html

​You are blind or you did not read my link ? It is still compressed but they work and will release via firmware uncompressed RAW on A7RII. 

BTW for the last interview Andrew just posted, they say A7RII does 240fps at 1080p but it is most likely a typo. A7SII will do 240fps at 1080p. 

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​Did you actually read the interview or the incorrect SAR summary? Nowhere does the Sony manager state that its going to happen, this is just spreading false information.

From Imaging Resource:

"Sony RAW is compressed, not uncompressed. But if we're getting a lot of requests for it, we should make such a kind of no-compression raw. Of course we recognize that. But I cannot give you a guarantee when we're going to fix or not fix."

Cannot guarantee when we're going to fix or not fix. That's hardly confirmation that its coming.

The full IR interview: http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2015/06/16/sony-qa-the-must-have-sensor-tech-of-the-future

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​You are blind or you did not read my link ? It is still compressed but they work and will release via firmware uncompressed RAW on A7RII. 

:rolleyes:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. My post is simply a statement of fact based in the present. Take a chill pill, it's just a camera. I don't even use Sony cameras, but I don't see why they don't provide 14 bit lossless raw to their customers. I'm loyal to camera users, not camera brands.

Actually while we're on the subject, the thing that caught my attention about this issue was when I read something that spoke of its raw as 14 bit. I've always been cautious of Sony's marketing since they started putting '4K' logos on cameras that don't shoot it. I used to work in the warehouse of a camera store.

By the way, what's sexy about the number 50? Are you numberist or something. I got a 'sexy' number for you. 14.

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50 is sexier than 42 because 50 is a round number, it is half of a hundred, it is impressive. 
42 seems to come from nowhere and is a bastard number. Well it is the meaning of life though. 

Anyway, I personally do not care and 42 is already too much for me. 
Would just like a 16mp A7SII with internal 4K @60fps and no pixel bining in FF, and 1080p @240fps, S-LOG3 with of course body improvements and IBIS, for 2500$ :). But either the camera won't have these specs (FS7 territory hello), either it will be priced over 3200$. 
So I might end up with the A7RII anyway. 

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50 is sexier than 42 because 50 is a round number, it is half of a hundred, it is impressive. 
42 seems to come from nowhere and is a bastard number. Well it is the meaning of life though. 

Anyway, I personally do not care and 42 is already too much for me. 
Would just like a 16mp A7SII with internal 4K @60fps and no pixel bining in FF, and 1080p @240fps, S-LOG3 with of course body improvements and IBIS, for 2500$ :). But either the camera won't have these specs (FS7 territory hello), either it will be priced over 3200$. 
So I might end up with the A7RII anyway. 

42 megapixels is there for a reason. It makes 2x2 pixel binning possible for 4K in fullframe mode.

Kimio Mak (Sony)i: Let me explain about why we chose this size. I didn't decide on 42 megapixels first, then the sensor was created. When we created these devices, I prioritized ... I don't like to lose sensitivity, compared to the 36-megapixel [sensor], right? And also, I really wanted to realize 4K movies. They have to read/write faster, right? So 4K movies had to just fit, and also ISO sensitivity should be better than 36-megapixel sensors. So how many pixels is the best pixel size? Let's calculate it! That was the process. From that, the conclusion was that 42-megapixel was the best pixel size to realize 4K movies...

Check the interview here:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2015/06/16/sony-qa-the-must-have-sensor-tech-of-the-future

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Andrew
I haven't commented in AGES. That's because I've been waiting for a Hybrid like the A7RII.
So now some questions. If you know the answers....

  1. Internal 4K . How has Sony solved what is typically a Heat Management Issue for the sensor?
  2. Based on 1. Is there a record time limit at 4K Internally?
  3. We're guessing that 4K is Sony4K compressed 10bit at best. Any news on the color space spec front?
  4. Is there a chance it'll send out a signal via WiFi to a Smartphone as does the Samsung NX1?

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If I wanted a camera that shot sharp 1080p using binned 4K internal images, had XLR inputs, could run for a while on a big battery, took professional glass, and output probably the best 28mbs image I could grade using any software...what camera would that be?  It would be the Canon C100.  I have a BMPCC and a Sony A7 and A6000 and I've looked at C100 stuff from my friend's camera--it's beautiful.   

The real problem people have, who complain that Canon isn't keeping up, isn't that the Canon C100 is a bad camera, it's that these consumer cameras, for all their 4K, RAW, in-camera stabilization, etc., STILL CANNOT deliver a no-fuss beautiful image.  

​Are you referring to STILL or MOVIE Images in your declaration? Hybrids are expected to COMPROMISE to achieve a balance.

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