kye Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 21 hours ago, mercer said: Or bring a bat and when he hands you the camera to look at, hit him over the head and run away. The best form of defence is a good offence! mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 well this took a turn. hope you're okay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 i had to postpone because i got sick and meanwhile i realize that i don't want to buy that s5iix only because it is a bargain. Lenses are expensive and big, also the body is big..so to have a bulky set i 'll finish spend more than my budget anyway. Then there is the crop at 50/60. Also one of the best feature, usb recording, i amnot going to use because it will need a rig! I want a light and quick setup, an that is not. Eventually is a deal i should have done with a very suspicious person... So xs20 or fx30 remains as choices SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 I had a play on Camera Size: https://camerasize.com/compact/#887.1042,908.1081,895.955,901.879,907.901,ha,t From left to right, we have: OM-1 + 12-40 (24-80) f2.8 as a M4/3 contender. It is both larger and heavier than the... Fuji X-S20 which is one of the 2 APSC players here, but with the pretty tiny Sigma 18-50 (27-75) f2.8...but please note, the next camera along, the FX30 has the Tamron 17-70 (26-105) f2.8 I was recommending...and did not attach it here to the X-S20, because it was not an option. Next up is the FX30 which is no smaller really than the full-frame S5ii and arguably not as a capable. The S5ii I stuck the 24-70 f2.8 on it because the smaller and lighter Sigma 28-70 f2.8 (my pick) was not an option (though is in the real world). And just for reference, I stuck on the end a 'pro' camera, the Nikon Z8 with 24-70 f2.8 IMO, for your money and needs, I'd struggle to see past the Fuji with the Tamron lens which is not only the most compact of these set ups, but offers the greatest focal range and I believe ticks all your boxes. Without having to make any compromises. I would quite happily shoot Fuji X professionally for all my video and stills needs and did for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 The positions seem to have changed when I clicked the link myself, but hey ho, I'm sure you will work it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, MrSMW said: I had a play on Camera Size: https://camerasize.com/compact/#887.1042,908.1081,895.955,901.879,907.901,ha,t From left to right, we have: OM-1 + 12-40 (24-80) f2.8 as a M4/3 contender. It is both larger and heavier than the... Fuji X-S20 which is one of the 2 APSC players here, but with the pretty tiny Sigma 18-50 (27-75) f2.8...but please note, the next camera along, the FX30 has the Tamron 17-70 (26-105) f2.8 I was recommending...and did not attach it here to the X-S20, because it was not an option. Next up is the FX30 which is no smaller really than the full-frame S5ii and arguably not as a capable. The S5ii I stuck the 24-70 f2.8 on it because the smaller and lighter Sigma 28-70 f2.8 (my pick) was not an option (though is in the real world). And just for reference, I stuck on the end a 'pro' camera, the Nikon Z8 with 24-70 f2.8 IMO, for your money and needs, I'd struggle to see past the Fuji with the Tamron lens which is not only the most compact of these set ups, but offers the greatest focal range and I believe ticks all your boxes. Without having to make any compromises. I would quite happily shoot Fuji X professionally for all my video and stills needs and did for many years. nice that site with comparation..but it doesn't tell it all S5 is bigger than fx30..1/2 cm per each of the dimension. Plus it is quite more heavy. And it is heavier the lens..having at the end an expensiv epackage I know what i woul dget for lens: 18 105 sony with fx30, and xs20 with your suggestion tamron 17 70 Pansonic is more difficult with lenses: best would be panasonic 24 105 which is really big, heavy and expensive..not an option for me Sigma 28 70 which is also heavy, big and expensive..plus it needs extra money for adapter... So high budget, bigger and heavier package and half of the time using in apsc. The thing that i really would love from the panasonic is the stabilization which seems way better than all the others contenders; the other main feature are not always availbale , the full frame is not, the AF is good but yet non that good as sony If it weren't for this bargain (probably a stolen camera)i would not think at panasonic. I had GH3, my first "important" machine and the experience with sony allround was not so nice...lot's of trouble with dials,software,support..and i never really liked the digital look of it. Of course time has changed and now everyhting must be different With xs20 i am sure i'll get all i need, may be not excting so much as i will have somehting similar to xt3 i have owned, with newer feature but same iq i suppose(sensor is the same), and most of all i 'll save more money Sony is more exciting..i never had a sony (ok i have a zv1) and i was always tempted from it but i am going to pay enough more and i still don't understand how worthy it will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 The Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 is a better lens than the Sony 18-105mm f4. IMO. The former can be had for either Fuji X Mount or Sony but the latter Sony only. Obviously. That Sony lens will be OK outdoors in good light, but otherwise… Depends on your needs but if Panny is out of the running and that budget is fixed… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 Just get a Canon. The R7 is a great deal or Canon even makes some decent camcorders if that's something you're considering. SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 2 hours ago, MrSMW said: The Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 is a better lens than the Sony 18-105mm f4. IMO. The former can be had for either Fuji X Mount or Sony but the latter Sony only. Obviously. That Sony lens will be OK outdoors in good light, but otherwise… Depends on your needs but if Panny is out of the running and that budget is fixed… It is out because expensive and bulky don t you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, stefanocps said: It is out because expensive and bulky don t you agree? I know s5iix plus 50 1.8 for 1500 euro seems so stupid to do no get it, but also seems a little stupid to get somthing because it is a baragain and then having to over the possibility to use it...it s a big dilemma this s5..really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 If the camera meets your needs, it's a fantastic deal. If the camera doesn't meet your needs, even at half that price, it's a terrible deal. Will you feel good if you spend 1500 Euros on a camera that constantly feels big, bulky, and awkward in your hands and that you feel is working against you while shooting? To me, the S5IIx isn't all that big/bulky and the footage I've seen from it looked great - so if I were in the market, it'd be a great deal. If it's not for you, there's no need to agonize about it. Just wait for a camera that meets your needs better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 5 hours ago, stefanocps said: I know s5iix plus 50 1.8 for 1500 euro seems so stupid to do no get it, but also seems a little stupid to get somthing because it is a baragain and then having to over the possibility to use it...it s a big dilemma this s5..really As someone who cares a lot about camera size, I find that discussions often ignore a number of important variables. For example, larger cameras can: Attract additional attention (sometimes very negative attention) making the shooting process more difficult in some situations When shooting candid situations they make the people in the frame act very differently, which completely overrides any image quality advantage they might have Make you feel more awkward, leading to a less enjoyable shooting experience, and negatively impacting your creativity in terms of compositions, camera movement, etc Make you feel more awkward, leading to people around you also being awkward (body language is a powerful thing) Make you more tired, leading to worse footage If shooting outside controlled situations, you can be blocked from shooting by security guards and other "official" folks, who will decide who is allowed to shoot and who isn't based solely on the size and appearance of the camera Etc. For my family and travel shoots I have swapped from my GH5 to the GX85 purely for these reasons. The image on the GH5 is great, but high-quality capture of compromised shooting of awkward people isn't as good as a lower-quality capture of creative shooting of relaxed people. Not by a long shot. I understand the pull of the nicer cameras / codecs / DR / colour science / etc, but encourage you to consider the big picture - the end goal is to get the nicest possible finished edit, right? Another factor to think about is lenses and how large they are. You'll likely be trading off elements such as: size weight image stabilisation AF performance (and even AF vs MF) aperture / low-light / depth-of-field primes vs zoom / zoom range cost To this end, I have decided to move from MF primes with large apertures to a single (comparatively) small aperture zoom lens. This is because I have found that working backwards: the best edit comes from having the most options in the edit the most options in the edit comes from having 1) a greater number of shots of a scene and 2) a wider variety of shots having a greater number of shots is enabled when you can work fast, which means AF instead of MF having a greater variety of shots is enabled by having a variety of focal lengths quickly available, which means a zoom rather than primes (and the time it takes to swap lenses) In terms of the overall aesthetic, I'm a bit of a niche player in that I want the most cinematic images I can get, but (unlike almost everyone else on the internet) I've actually looked at images from cinema and realised they don't have a crazy shallow-DoF (and a large percentage have everything in focus) and cinema doesn't have super-sharp images, even in the normal theatre which is projecting in 2K. Combine this with the ability to colour grade images nicely (even rec709 images) and it makes it very clear that while a camera like the S5iiX is a very impressive piece of equipment, it isn't even close to the optimal for how I shoot. Obviously these are my thoughts and your situation will be very different, but hope this is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 10 hours ago, stefanocps said: It is out because expensive and bulky don t you agree? Completely disagree. But based on my definitions of size/weight/bulk etc. To put it into perspective, my main camera this year has been an S1H + battery grip + Leica 24-90mm f2.8-4. This rig weighs just over 2.8kg…which is one of the reasons I am reluctantly trading it for something lighter for 2024. My dream rig is the Canon R3 + 24-105mm f2.8 weighing in at 2.35kg, so still a bit of a beast, but around 1/2kg lighter, faster constant aperture, bigger zoom range at the more important (to me) long end, integrated grip, non-extending lens…but costs 8k+, so unfortunately I cannot justify it. Then there is the Fuji X-S20 with Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 offering the same equivalent focal length as my dream rig above, but costing 1/4 of the price and weighing in at under 1kg. I would call it ridiculously compact, lightweight and capable and with maybe 90%+ of the real world capability of either of the ‘pro’ combos above. I shot the XT3 professionally for 2 years and it was and still is a fantastic camera. The ONLY thing it lacked for me was IBIS. The X-S20 is arguably a more capable camera than the XT3, has IBIS and is even smaller. No-brainer to me. The S5ii is not much bigger or that much more capable, though it is in both senses, but the issue for me is then lenses because the equivalent is the f4 24-105 and so yes, the combo is bigger, heavier and out of budget, so I could not recommend it in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 36 minutes ago, MrSMW said: Completely disagree. But based on my definitions of size/weight/bulk etc. To put it into perspective, my main camera this year has been an S1H + battery grip + Leica 24-90mm f2.8-4. This rig weighs just over 2.8kg…which is one of the reasons I am reluctantly trading it for something lighter for 2024. My dream rig is the Canon R3 + 24-105mm f2.8 weighing in at 2.35kg, so still a bit of a beast, but around 1/2kg lighter, faster constant aperture, bigger zoom range at the more important (to me) long end, integrated grip, non-extending lens…but costs 8k+, so unfortunately I cannot justify it. Then there is the Fuji X-S20 with Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 offering the same equivalent focal length as my dream rig above, but costing 1/4 of the price and weighing in at under 1kg. I would call it ridiculously compact, lightweight and capable and with maybe 90%+ of the real world capability of either of the ‘pro’ combos above. I shot the XT3 professionally for 2 years and it was and still is a fantastic camera. The ONLY thing it lacked for me was IBIS. The X-S20 is arguably a more capable camera than the XT3, has IBIS and is even smaller. No-brainer to me. The S5ii is not much bigger or that much more capable, though it is in both senses, but the issue for me is then lenses because the equivalent is the f4 24-105 and so yes, the combo is bigger, heavier and out of budget, so I could not recommend it in this instance. Can you immagine now he accept even 1300!!i might say i get it and then in case resell it...but i don t feel like reset something that has a doubtfull provenience.. That said all this, about bulky are just my idea, as i never see one, but i think it is not far from real And i terribly agree with kye speech about how people reactnin front of a big or small camera. Yes the real problem with s5 is 24 105...big heavy and expensive. But 1300 for combo camera and lens...i need to erase my mind from it😄 kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 42 minutes ago, MrSMW said: Completely disagree. But based on my definitions of size/weight/bulk etc. To put it into perspective, my main camera this year has been an S1H + battery grip + Leica 24-90mm f2.8-4. This rig weighs just over 2.8kg…which is one of the reasons I am reluctantly trading it for something lighter for 2024. My dream rig is the Canon R3 + 24-105mm f2.8 weighing in at 2.35kg, so still a bit of a beast, but around 1/2kg lighter, faster constant aperture, bigger zoom range at the more important (to me) long end, integrated grip, non-extending lens…but costs 8k+, so unfortunately I cannot justify it. Then there is the Fuji X-S20 with Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 offering the same equivalent focal length as my dream rig above, but costing 1/4 of the price and weighing in at under 1kg. I would call it ridiculously compact, lightweight and capable and with maybe 90%+ of the real world capability of either of the ‘pro’ combos above. I shot the XT3 professionally for 2 years and it was and still is a fantastic camera. The ONLY thing it lacked for me was IBIS. The X-S20 is arguably a more capable camera than the XT3, has IBIS and is even smaller. No-brainer to me. The S5ii is not much bigger or that much more capable, though it is in both senses, but the issue for me is then lenses because the equivalent is the f4 24-105 and so yes, the combo is bigger, heavier and out of budget, so I could not recommend it in this instance. Why you never consider fx30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade towell Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, stefanocps said: Can you immagine now he accept even 1300!!i might say i get it and then in case resell it...but i don t feel like reset something that has a doubtfull provenience.. That said all this, about bulky are just my idea, as i never see one, but i think it is not far from real And i terribly agree with kye speech about how people reactnin front of a big or small camera. Yes the real problem with s5 is 24 105...big heavy and expensive. But 1300 for combo camera and lens...i need to erase my mind from it😄 You could buy a used Sigma adapter and used Canon EF lenses like 24-105mm for a lot less money than the Panny 24-105, or super zooms like Tamron 28-300mm if you wanted much bigger range but not too heavy. I've got to say I don't think the S5ii is too big and feels about the right size with a decent zoom lens especially when handheld. I can get very steady footage. A lighter camera with a long lens on the front will feel imbalanced and footage will suffer accordingly. The S5ii IBIS also makes a huge difference for handheld. I tried the Fuji xt4 and the IBIS had some issues, not sure if Fuji have fixed that. Lovely image from Fuji though, that and the Panasonic are my favourites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, ade towell said: You could buy a used Sigma adapter and used Canon EF lenses like 24-105mm for a lot less money than the Panny 24-105, or super zooms like Tamron 28-300mm if you wanted much bigger range but not too heavy. I've got to say I don't think the S5ii is too big and feels about the right size with a decent zoom lens when handheld. I can get very steady footage. A lighter camera with a long lens on the front will feel imbalanced and footage will suffer accordingly i read that the canon ef will not suppot afc is it true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade towell Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Not true the Canon lenses i have used with Sigma adapter worked exactly the same as they did on Canon R6 with adapter and the AF works the same as the native Panasonis lenses I have on the S5ii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, ade towell said: Not true the Canon lenses i have used with Sigma adapter worked exactly the same as they did on Canon R6 with adapter and the AF works the same as the native Panasonis lenses I have on the S5ii how much cost the adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanocps Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, stefanocps said: how much cost the adapter? in amazon 278 euro! will not come out cheaper 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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