Jump to content
Andrew Reid

Canon XC10 4K camcorder

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

You've got to love that this is a camera that you can sling around your neck and look like Joe Tourist yet grab images of this depth and colour.

Yes, and if you hold it at waist height with the screen flipped up it looks like you're just figuring out how to use it, or fiddling with some settings.

33 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Testing the 1080p footage to see if it holds up better than the 4k

Looking forward to the results @kidzrevil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

has anyone ever used this with an external recorder ? Im reading reports that the hd footage after the firmware update is much improved http://gadgetflux.net/canon-xc10-firmware-update-v1-0-2-0/

im wondering if it would be wise to get something like a atomos ninja star and use high bit rate 1080p 10bit footage in hopes of defeating the noise reduction issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I'm going to guess no. You could try plugging it into your TV to see what you get. Would an external recorder see the same?

 

 

not sure. I am going to rent an external recorder and do some testing. The xc10 being able to output 10bit + the 2x downsampling to 1080 should help the c-log performance 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used it with a Shogun and Pix-e5h. I can't see any quality gain over the internal UHD 305 codec but haven't done any motion tests. I tested it to see if I could eliminate banding in blue skies but it didn't improve. ( HDMI out is 8 bit and not 10 bit)I found ETTR not the best way to expose for C-Log. Firstly the zebras are on the green channel so you can clip other colours ( inc blue skies) and mainly because the image just looks better to me about 1 stop under ETTR and the banding is under control. The banding is a bit of a shame and I don't get it with my A7s S-Log HDMI out which is also 8 bit. One good reason for an external monitor is to have scopes which I hear they have introduced on the new x15. Probably no technical reason they can't do this with a firmware upgrade but I guess they won't for commercial reasons. One thing I hate ( And on the A7s) is the lack of a quick WB set button. I would just like to point it at a grey card or pop on my expodisk and press to set the WB. This camera generated so much hate when it came out but is now gaining a lot of respect  due in no small part to a superb C-Log / 305mbs codec and the now sensible pricing ( the launch price was just ill judged). Couple of tips; don't stop down past f8 in UHD or the resolution drops off due to diffraction. it can't trigger the recording from the camera on the video devices recorder but it can with then Atomos. ( kind of pointless putting a monitor on it anyway as it ruins it's compact point and shoot nature) I'd also like to see user selectable NR and more options for assigning functions to the buttons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@UHDjohn Good to know that zebras are on green! Thanks for that tip.

I haven't seen much banding in blue skies. Will look again.

If you'd like more customisable buttons and control over NR it might be a good idea to contact Canon support. They have an option for feedback / criticism. They've already shown they're responsive to improving the XC10 through firmware updates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time for a game of guess the camera! :tounge:

image.jpg

image.jpg

Which is XC10 and which is Magic Lantern RAW? (I've downsized these so resolution advantages aren't apparent.) If you need a hint take a closer look at the camera strap.

This is good news for me as it means I can match the two closely enough. The 5D3 was shooting in crop mode so DOF is more or less the same. Interestingly there is a difference in exposing the two cameras. I have to close down the 5D3 by about one stop to reach the same clipping point as the XC10 when they are set to ISO 400 and 500 respectively. In other words, if I used the 5D3 to set exposure and ETTR, and used the same settings on the XC10, the XC10 would be one stop blown out in the highlights. I'm not sure what the implications of this are.


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

XC10 looks better, more details in highlights, but I would like to see a good comparison between XC10 and C300 MKII in 4K

I think Tom has both cameras. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still kinda crazy the xc10 is matching perfectly with a c300. Wow.

How does the xc10 1080 24p compare to the 4k quality ? Is the bitrate high enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

XC10 looks better, more details in highlights,

Which one are you saying is the XC10 @hijodeibn? Top or bottom?

36 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

How does the xc10 1080 24p compare to the 4k quality ? Is the bitrate high enough?

It's slightly less sharp and less detailed and has more compression artifacts (HD on top, resized 4K below, look for sharpness on book cover text and look for compression mush under the table):

image.jpg

Is it worth 10x the file sizes for HD delivery? Probably not at ISO500 for well exposed footage, but maybe at higher ISOs or if crazy post is required. I can see the difference if I toggle back and forth between them but that's serious pixel peeping.

Now, for HD shooting it looks like if you shoot Wide DR instead of CLog there is less banding and less compression artifacts (top = WideDR, bottom = CLog, contrast expanded)

A002_C007_161024_TB_CANON_0_04_45_22.jpg

This is obviously an extreme push here to show that there's less banding in WideDR. However, it does make a noticeable difference in a real world grade, particularly if sharpness is applied to the CLog footage. Dynamic range seems to be about the same with regard to highlight clipping point. If you switch to WideDR the zebras increase but the info is still there in the superwhites - just not as gradual a roll off into white as with CLog.

There's also a big difference in colour rendition between WideDR and CLog which I'm going to investigate more fully in daylight. It looks like Wide DR might be nicer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smh Canon tech support wants me to send my unit in but I have a strong feeling thats just going to waste my time. We need a flood of people to email them so they can understand its a problem with the image processing and faulty hardware @hyalinejim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

Smh Canon tech support wants me to send my unit in but I have a strong feeling thats just going to waste my time. We need a flood of people to email them so they can understand its a problem with the image processing and faulty hardware @hyalinejim

Two guys said in the other topic related to ghosting they are not having the issue, I think first an example from them is imperative, if they are not having the issue then we are in serious problem, since it is a problem related to camera building instead of firmware update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hijodeibn said:

Two guys said in the other topic related to ghosting they are not having the issue, I think first an example from them is imperative, if they are not having the issue then we are in serious problem, since it is a problem related to camera building instead of firmware update.

Still waiting on their results. A couple of reviewers caught the issue when doing rolling shutter tests. For now my max iso will remain at 1000...after that the NR goes bonkers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kidzrevil: wherever you go, NR is haunting you! I am wondering if the 15 is better in that specific matter, as people with the 15 have recorder no ghosting, maybe it handled NR bwtter, or it is just the limitation of the sensor size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@kidzrevil: wherever you go, NR is haunting you! I am wondering if the 15 is better in that specific matter, as people with the 15 have recorder no ghosting, maybe it handled NR bwtter, or it is just the limitation of the sensor size.

Lmao these companies aint giving us options man. Im sure Canon employed such aggressive NR to give an acceptable looking image throughout the ISO range 

sensor limitations are understood but its crazy how many people missed that NR issue. Maybe I need to start doing reviews my damn self ! 1000 ISO is my absolute limit.

You may be right though, It was probably patched up in the xc15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...