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ATEM Mini Pro ISO Version


BTM_Pix
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On 7/31/2020 at 12:27 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Its nowhere near as comprehensive or flexible as NDI but the Streaming Bridge product that they also announced today is a pretty neat way to repurpose the network output of ATEM Minis and link them across local networks and the internet.

Much cheaper than NDI and might be enough for a lot of people's needs in the applications that ATEM Mini is being used.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/atem-streaming-bridge-announced-by-blackmagic-design/

NDI tech is becoming cheap and cheaper too:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/07/31/birddog-flex-4k-ndi-review/

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19 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Nice. But what about an option to record the 'live' inputs as individual clips with handles. Like this:

Input 1 is selected for 10 seconds - Input 2 for 5 seconds - Input 3 for 2 seconds - Input 1 for 10 seconds

Then on the SSD you have a project file with 4 individual clips, named:  Input1_00001 - Input1_00002 etc.

But what's better is each clip has a few seconds either side of it. In the project, you have the 'edit' you made live, but since the clips are a little longer, you can move the cuts back and forward a little bit to tidy things up.

---

I guess to do that, the device would have to be recording all inputs all the time, but the 3 unused inputs can be on a x second overwrite loop, when you select Input 2 the overwrite turns into continuous and the file is created. Maybe for the processing, thats harder than just recording all the inputs all the time?

I had to have a lie down after working through those scenarios 😉 

If you are using the Pocket cameras then just writing an xml file of the cuts would suffice as the ISO files in that instance are all recorded in the camera with their timecode synced from the ATEM Mini Pro so it would then work exactly as per the ATEM Mini Pro ISO.

If you aren't using the Pocket cameras then you'd have to rely on manual re-sync of the cameras.

Unless someone works out how to extract the timecode that the ATEM puts out on the HDMI port and distributes it to the cameras....

I've got the ISO version on order now so expect poking around in that general direction.

A way to offer a halfway house to the ATEM Mini Pro would be to have two short (five or ten second) circular buffer recordings of whatever is on the preview bus pre and post cut onto the output bus.

That would give you the ability in post to cut in or out five or ten seconds earlier but as you've restricted it to the preview and main output only then you've given a differentiation between that and the full blown ISO recording.

I don't know what additional hardware is included in the ISO version to enable the continuous recording of five streams but there may be enough in the Mini Pro to record the two streams that would be needed for that.

I'd probably say that if they included it as a firmware upgrade for the Mini Pro then that taste of the possibilities would likely stimulate people to go the whole hog and upgrade to the ISO version.

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18 hours ago, majoraxis said:

I would like to see an ATEM Mini Pro Solo: a signal video/audio  stream encoder that is compatible with the Streaming Bridge for $249. It would be nice if it had an SDI input as well as HDMI the ability to load a 3D LUT on the SDI input would be a plus.

Yeah, that would be a great little product.

If they extend the functionality to be able to operate the Pocket camera controls from the studio end as you can with the ATEM then BM would sell a lot of cameras at the moment to broadcasters having to bring in remote feeds from talent who are working from home and may not be the most camera tech savvy !

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

NDI tech is becoming cheap and cheaper too:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/07/31/birddog-flex-4k-ndi-review/

It would have been even cheaper for us Ninja V owners if Atomos hadn't mysteriously dropped the AtomX module !

The downer about NDI if you wanted to use it in these small ATEM Mini link up scenarios is that you'd need an encoder at one end and a decoder at the other unless BM introduced NDI inputs which I suspect is not going to be on the cards.

What they could do though is add their own format as an input to yet another ATEM Mini product which they will no doubt announce within 24 hours of me receiving my ATEM Mini Pro ISO.

A two HDMI matrix switcher output version of the Streaming Bridge that could pull in four or eight network inputs would be a good add on too.

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3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

A way to offer a halfway house to the ATEM Mini Pro would be to have two short (five or ten second) circular buffer recordings of whatever is on the preview bus pre and post cut onto the output bus.

That’s exactly what I’m asking about. But, if you’re doing that circular buffer, then Shirley you can also just do full ISO recording?

maybe the new internals includes a storage  space to allow much bigger buffer before sending data out to the USB?

 

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6 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

That’s exactly what I’m asking about. But, if you’re doing that circular buffer, then Shirley you can also just do full ISO recording?

maybe the new internals includes a storage  space to allow much bigger buffer before sending data out to the USB?

 

The circular buffer would only be two tracks, itself and the main output, so that is more manageable than the five needed with the full ISO recordings.

But yeah if you are continuously recording fragments you might as well be recording the whole thing, so it would be two continuous tracks, one of the preview bus and the other of the main output. That would give you the same capability of changing your cut points after the event.

Looking at something like vMix which offers ISO recording, the track capacity is related to overall CPU/GPU power of the computer you are running it on so its possible that the hardware difference over the Mini Pro is a beefier or even additional processor just to handle the ISOs 

I'll get the screwdrivers out and have a look when it eventually turns up !

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7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

 

The downer about NDI if you wanted to use it in these small ATEM Mini link up scenarios is that you'd need an encoder at one end and a decoder at the other unless BM introduced NDI inputs which I suspect is not going to be on the cards.

All they need to do is adopt the protocol and maybe add an extra Ethernet port so you have a dedicated ATEM control port and a network port, although one should be able to do both.

Then, to add extra NDI inputs or outputs, just add a router. ANY NDI source connected via Ethernet or Wifi can then be seen. 

As NDI supports Alpha Channel, it's a very easy way to add graphics as well as many other sources. No special hardware required but the software must support it. 

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Obviously on a technical level it would be trivial for BM to incorporate NDI but I can't see them doing anything that would aid and abet Newtek further establishing it as a standard.

I think if BM were going to embrace NDI they would have done it a couple of years ago as part of their Mini Converter range but didn't because the obvious by product of that would be more Tricaster sales for Newtek or software sales for vMix.

Its a pity though as a BM version would likely be far cheaper than even the budget one from Birddog.

The supposition from the Stream Bridge would be that BM are looking to make their own version of NDI which they will no doubt have to do at some stage anyway as those big multi point routers they sell will eventually have to give way to IP based ones.

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On 7/31/2020 at 7:18 AM, Anaconda_ said:

I have no idea what they’ve done inside the box to allow for ISO

The two empty SDRAM slots that I've highlighted here on this teardown of the ATEM Mini Pro are likely to at least be part of the answer to what they've added to the Mini Pro ISO.

atempro.jpg.599f9ddb56a3e78ff792fe99c57ada9e.jpg

 

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Well my ATEM Mini Pro ISO has shown up already.

I know the clue is in the name about its size but it really is very, very compact.

Major hassle is I need to change its IP address so I'm having to do a 1.4gig download to get their software.

And then upgrade the OS on my Mac to be able to install it.

I really don't understand why a device with 60+ hardware buttons and an output screen shouldn't be able to fashion a menu system to be able to do this directly.

I get that no one wants a menu screen being brought up accidentally during a broadcast but it wouldn't have been beyond the bounds of possibility to do this as a startup option by holding down two or three specific keys on power up.

Mind you, that would also have highlighted the niggle of not having a power on/off switch.

Oh well, at least it doesn't overheat.

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I am working on building a new VR camera-rig, and it seems like this would actually solve some of my problems, but has a lot of functionality I have no use for (switching).

To get sufficient quality for VR, two high quality synchronized video recordings are necessary. With the ability to switch the recorded 1080p with the raw files, the ATEM Mini Pro ISO should solve that problem well. So far I've had to start the two cameras individually and "synchronize" them in post, which adds a lot of complexity.

However, since I have no use for the whole switcher board, which is the main feature of the ATEM, I ask: Is there any other reasonable products that can record two 4k cameras at the same time? I know that the Atomos Shogun 7 can record 4 signals at the same time, but only in HD, which is not sufficient.

My ideal setup would be to have two cameras the size of the Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K connected to a small screen like the Ninja V or Shogun 7 and be able to get genlocked 4k60p only by operating the screen. Are there any other recorders I should look at? I am willing to make some compromises. I know the Z-Cam E2 has the genlock locked down, but would like more options.

 

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I think the E2 is likely the best option to be honest as it ticks the boxes for being compact, doing 4K60p and being easily synchronised.

The Master/Slave modes will take care of the sync-start and synchronisation

1069305618_ScreenShot2020-08-13at13_54_08.png.643d468f0275861ee4f85dcf0a7581cd.png

You would need to absolutely double check with them but this should then mean that their Android/iOS phone app can be attached to the master (front camera for example) to give you monitoring and pressing record on that screen will start the recording on the front and rear cameras.

Again, you'd need to absolutely confirm it with them but you should also be able to use another Android/iOS device on the rear camera and have them back to back if needed.

As it can run on Android it won't cost a fortune to have two devices if you want to set it up like that.

 

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1 hour ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

 

My ideal setup would be to have two cameras the size of the Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K connected to a small screen like the Ninja V or Shogun 7 and be able to get genlocked 4k60p only by operating the screen. Are there any other recorders I should look at? I am willing to make some compromises. I know the Z-Cam E2 has the genlock locked down, but would like more options.

 

Don't know what happened there but I couldn't put this in the proper reply.

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28 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think the E2 is likely the best option to be honest as it ticks the boxes for being compact, doing 4K60p and being easily synchronised.

The Master/Slave modes will take care of the sync-start and synchronisation

The Z-Cam E2 does seem to have all the technical specs I need, but of course I will find something to complain about. The width of the camera is 91 mm which is on the high end (but probably usable) "interpupilar" distance. The black magic studio camera would be 82mm in normal orientation or 66mm in vertical position. With a camera 91 mm wide, the distance from the camera to the nearest subject has to be greater. The Z-Cam K1 solve this problem completely, but the picture quality is worse and it has very little flexibility.

But I agree, the Z-Cam E2 is the most suitable solution I have found so far. So far I've used dual-GH5 vertically, which has worked pretty good, so my plan has been to wait for the next generation of cameras before making a proper VR-rig.

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On 8/13/2020 at 9:51 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Oh well, at least it doesn't overheat.

There goes Blackmagic once again ignoring the hot new trends of the current year and doing their own thing instead!

On 8/13/2020 at 11:07 PM, UncleBobsPhotography said:

To get sufficient quality for VR, two high quality synchronized video recordings are necessary. With the ability to switch the recorded 1080p with the raw files, the ATEM Mini Pro ISO should solve that problem well. So far I've had to start the two cameras individually and "synchronize" them in post, which adds a lot of complexity.

 

1080 per camera is too little for VR
Record internally, and use a switcher/combiner for the director/you to monitor what's happening in the scene. 
 

On 8/13/2020 at 11:07 PM, UncleBobsPhotography said:

I know the Z-Cam E2 has the genlock locked down, but would like more options.

Z Cam E2 really is the best option right now for multicam 360VR setup on a "low budget".

 

On 8/14/2020 at 12:03 AM, BTM_Pix said:

The Master/Slave modes

Careful now, you can't say that in 2020!

 

On 8/14/2020 at 12:28 AM, UncleBobsPhotography said:

But I agree, the Z-Cam E2 is the most suitable solution I have found so far. So far I've used dual-GH5 vertically, which has worked pretty good, so my plan has been to wait for the next generation of cameras before making a proper VR-rig.

Hard to know when a much better option than the E2 will come out. 
If I was to take a wild guess:
If the GH6 comes out with a new sensor (which is by no means at all certain, the GH6 might be sticking with the GH5 or GH5S sensor but pushing it further) then perhaps a year later Z Cam (or maybe BMD, but unlikely, think they'll stick with the "Pocket" form factor rather than making another Micro successor?) will bring out a "Z Cam E3" which will be better than the E2 in every way. 

That's your best bet to wait for? There are always other outside chances, maybe Kinefinity brings out a surprise "Terra Micro" which is amazing? But unlikely. 

So either get an E2 (or dedicated 360VR camera, not a multicam setup) or pin your hopes on maaaybe something better coming out (which is still going to be a year or two away). 

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3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

There goes Blackmagic once again ignoring the hot new trends of the current year and doing their own thing instead!

I was doing some software control of it and its internal fan kicked in so hard that I thought it was about to become the world's first switcher drone combi.

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Careful now, you can't say that in 2020!

Honestly, I did agonise about putting that in but as I was referring to the specific named function on the camera (and had included screenshots of the manual) I wasn't sure there was any right answer.

Coincidentally, part of the product that I'm developing for the ATEM does have an aspect where those terms would be used so of course I'm having to come up with alternative terminology.

I'm thinking "Leader/Follower" .

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