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Sony A7S III


Andrew Reid
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19 hours ago, Hangs4Fun said:

BTW...  When ETTR'ing at 94+ (for the corrective LUT's I use), the RAW output looks beautiful on the Ninja V using the corrective LUT as a display assist.  But when I bring it into Premiere the highlights and whites are significantly over exposed.   No clue yet why, trying to work with each of the pieces of the puzzle to resolve, Adobe, Apple, and LUT maker via support tickets and passing along findings.

So today I setup a color checker test and did regular output (ETTR 94+), RAW (94+), RAW underexposed 1 stop, 2 stops, and 3 stops from ETTR 94+.   I don't have my SSD to USB cable with me, so I don't know which one is best yet once you get it into Premiere past the Apple ProRes RAW drivers.  It looks perfect in the Ninja V when ETTR'ed at 94+ with the corrective LUT, so until I can get the footage into Premiere I won't know.

My wife is sending me that adapter, so I should be able to see by tomorrow night and will share my findings.  I mention this, because it will affect how you expose RAW on the A7SIII

Have a great day, and be safe out there

🙂

I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images.

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19 minutes ago, Llaasseerr said:

I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images.

To clarify this, the raw values are not overexposed, they are outside of the 0-1 viewing range of your monitor. If you apply the inverse of an Slog3 curve to your Slog3 image, you will get the same visual result as the raw image because it undoes the log encoding.

Slog3 is normalising the entire dynamic range into 0-1 with equal spacing between stops in a 0-1023 range. When you apply your Rec709 LUT, which  is expecting a log input, it is also shaping the DR into a 0-1 space but in a non-linear way using a filmic S-curve to aesthetically shape the knee and toe.

A raw image has no gamma correction and is linear 1.0, where the space between stops is double the amount of light, as it is in the real world. This is an inefficient way of storing dynamic range unless you have at least 16 integer bits available, but preferably you have a floating point image format which allows for the correct middle grey value pushing highlight values above 1.0. This is why OpenEXR exists.

So you need to first do a raw to log transform which for you would be slog3 like the Ninja V,  as a pre-step before applying your final LUT. Scratch has a good ProRes Raw workflow that allows this.

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2 hours ago, Llaasseerr said:

I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images.

I have Resolve 16 and the ProRes RAW HQ or ProRes RAW doesn't seem to work at all there. 

What you are saying makes a lot of sense though.  If I can just find a place to convert it to S-Log3 or something first.  Was really preferring to do the color grades in Resolve, and then edit in Premiere (until I wean myself off of Premiere, lol).  I will look at Nuke and Scratch, maybe they can handle this new RAW or maybe eventually Resolve will handle it and I can separately grade and export my files to edit with.  Obviously for a cleaner workflow, it would be nice to grade and edit in the same place without a middle rendering.

One thing I wonder is if I could bring these into Media Encoder and perform a transform there to S-Log3 first.  And heck with that being said, If that works, then I could also potentially create an injest preset to use as default injests in Premiere like I already do for auto generating proxies.  Will have to play around with that (though I was trying to wean myself over to Resolve).

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5 hours ago, Hangs4Fun said:

I have Resolve 16 and the ProRes RAW HQ or ProRes RAW doesn't seem to work at all there. 

What you are saying makes a lot of sense though.  If I can just find a place to convert it to S-Log3 or something first.  Was really preferring to do the color grades in Resolve, and then edit in Premiere (until I wean myself off of Premiere, lol).  I will look at Nuke and Scratch, maybe they can handle this new RAW or maybe eventually Resolve will handle it and I can separately grade and export my files to edit with.  Obviously for a cleaner workflow, it would be nice to grade and edit in the same place without a middle rendering.

One thing I wonder is if I could bring these into Media Encoder and perform a transform there to S-Log3 first.  And heck with that being said, If that works, then I could also potentially create an injest preset to use as default injests in Premiere like I already do for auto generating proxies.  Will have to play around with that (though I was trying to wean myself over to Resolve).

Right, Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW. Neither does Nuke. Forgot to bring that up, they expect an intermediate transcode. While I'm testing this out, I'm personally using Scratch to trancode to either slog3/sgamut3 or to ACES OpenEXR.

Apparently Adobe have added the ability to immediately convert to SLog3/Sgamut3 on import of a ProRes RAW file in a recent beta of Premiere, so you will then be good to go and have the same image as your Ninja V:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-beta/discuss-prores-raw-raw-to-log-conversion-support/m-p/11413274?page=1#M850

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1 hour ago, ajay said:

Can Catalyst Browse be used as a transcoder for ProRes Raw? This might be a solution for those using Davinci Resolve. Can someone try that has the Ninja? Thanks!

 

I cant even run it on my rig for some strange reason!? It keeps crashing damm Cb

Wanted to test out gyro magic😑

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23 hours ago, ajay said:

Can Catalyst Browse be used as a transcoder for ProRes Raw? This might be a solution for those using Davinci Resolve. Can someone try that has the Ninja? Thanks!

 

Right now, I have only had luck recording ProRes RAW HQ to my Ninja V.  But when I bring it into Premiere it os severely over exposed, even though it looks perfect on the Ninja V.

To do this i installed the Apple ProRes RAW windows driver and then imported into Premiere , both at the latest versions.  Someone else mentioned that I need to transcode it first and then import into Premiere.  

But what really sucks right now is that using my Sony XLR-K3M to do 4 channels of audio first, does not let me output 4 channels to the Ninja V whether ProRes RAW or regular ProRes HQ.  And even using internal codecs only works if I go straight into Premiere, thrn I can see 1-4 channels properly.  But if I wanted to go to catalyst browse first to use gyro based stabilization, even Sonys own Catalyst Browse doesn't have the 4 channels, which I'm hearing is the case in other places too.  So will have to wait for each to add proper support for the new PCLM 4 channel audio.

Obviously, Da Vinci Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW (since they have BRAW which competes now against ProRes RAW... kind of)

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  • Andrew Reid changed the title to Sony A7S III / rumours
  • Andrew Reid pinned this topic
  • 2 weeks later...

v2.0 FW is out. Cinetone is the headline, but there are always under the hood fixes filed under "improves overall stability of the camera"

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/e-mount-body-ilce-7-series/ilce-7sm3/downloads

This is the worst part of owning a Sony, not being able to simply copy to a card and update, have to plug in the camera and hope for the best.

Chris

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On 2/25/2021 at 9:08 PM, scotchtape said:

Welp, I'll wait a week to see if it bricks anyone's camera...

Worked seamlessly for me. My biggest gripe is why it won't work with Big Sur. 

Cinetone looks wonderful for simple projects. I wish they would give us an update with shutter angle and custom WB in preset 1/2/3 modes. 

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