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On 8/5/2020 at 6:23 AM, MrSMW said:

I had the cheapo ef 50mm f1.8 and it was a little noisy but produced really great results with the Fringer.

Really interested in this new Metabones!

I am a big fan of Tamron lenses and would love to see how the 24-70 f2.8 and 35-140 f2.8-4 work on Fuji because if ‘good enough’, I could keep my XT3’s for a few more years yet...

That 35-140 especially. On XT3/4, focal length will be just a few mill longer but f2-2.8, in a relatively small, light and affordable lens? If the AF works as well as it does for my Fringer/Sigma 18-35 combo, I’m sold.

I've got a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 I cherish and I can't wait to try on something like Metabones/Viltrox on the XT4, right now I just can't justify spending another $200 (let alone metabones' 600, not sure if there's a future at all where I will spend that) for the immediate timebeing especially when my day-to-day this year is just carrying the XT4 with a pancake on it. But I'll certainly be posting about the results when I finally get one of these adapters. I have a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 as well that I hope can actually work really well for AF at such a super wide FOV. When 1.19 or 1.29 crop is active I can probably even zoom it all the way back out to 11mm on a speedbooster and get full FoV back, no vignette.

I think the fact that I can (i.e. do) already easily also throw my EF lenses on a straight dumb $20 EF adaptor to get their full length probably means I get more mileage out of going focal reducer route rather than the Fringer.

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I think the main problem coming from these videos is that 90% are made from photographers that have limited understanding of video work. They think IBIS is a gimbal replacement or some sort of steady

I can see why he needs raw, wb is totally off 😄

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I think having both a Fringer and the new Metabones opens up a lot of options for a Fuji user because you can either have the equivalent FF field of view (more or less) plus one stop faster with the Meta, or switch to the Fringer with the same lens and extend FOV by +50-60% albeit with the existing aperture.

If the lenses used are OIS, even happier days.

So yes, the $649 Metabones seems like a pricey option for an adaptor, the options it opens up are quite considerable.

The only problem with the new Meta right now is it's not easy to get hold of in Europe, but I'd like to get one ASAP to at least try.

My 'budget' future as things stand might be continuing with my pair of XT3's with battery grips, getting a single Meta and flipping that as needed with my Fringer and using a couple of VC Tamron zooms., a total further expenditure of around 2k, but with existing stuff to sell that would cover the cost, ie, for the moment at least, skipping the XT4.

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Just been playing around with a few options with my XT3 and have a question for actual XT4 owner/users and that is specifically, how good is the 'tripod' IBIS mode?

My most stabilised lens currently is the f4 16-80mm.

It doesn't really float my boat for video work, especially in low light and especially against Fringer and Metabones options that allow f1.8/f2.

But the latter aside, I like a 100% or close to steady shot for all my work. I don't pan or anything like that and certainly never walk.

However, using a monopod on a typical 12-15 hour wedding day is a bind in 2 ways.

1: Along with additional power bank, it's around 3kg extra to lug about all day.

2: It's at least 3x faster than using a tripod, but still nowhere near as fast as a harness attached unit you can swing into action within a split second and make any/all adjustments with your body.

So I am kind of musing just how good (or not) an XT4 is with everything switched on and using say the 16-55mm f2.8, ie, something moderately chunky and weighty?

If anyone has any footage they'd care to share, even better!

I tend to shoot around 30-80mm full-frame equivalent for all my video work and towards the longer end really and there are a number of lens options, but I am very interested to know how close to static footage can be achieved with say 5-10 second clips handheld.

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If it's of any interest, with a Fuji IBIS body (so current XT4 + battery grip or potential XH2 with hopefully integral battery grip) and focal lengths adjusted for FF equivalency using the APSC 1.5x crop + 1.29x 4k crop (video) or the 1.07 crop (stills) , my ideal dual body and lens line up would be as follows:

Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 + Tamron 45mm f1.8 + Viltrox 85mm f1.8 (3 lens options)

Fringer video equivalent = 35-68mm + 87mm + 165mm all f1.8

Ideally, I'd rather shoot all of the above 3 options handheld with rock steady 'near tripod' like results, though the 85mm lens might be asking a bit much?

And below, the photo only options where the stabilisation is a bonus rather than a need.

Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 OIS + Tamron 35-150mm f2.8-4 OIS (2 lens options)

Metabones photo equivalent = 16-32mm f2 + 37-160mm f2-2.8

 

 

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IBIS on the X-T4 is - as perhaps typical for APS-C - somewhere in between the best MFT systems (Olympus & Panasonic GH5) and the not-so-effective full frame systems (Sony A7 series). 

The real drawback of the camera IMHO is (a) overheating and (b) the built-in Log profiles (F-Log and HLG) which have greatly reduced  color resolution in comparison to the standard color profiles. IMHO it also suffers from an overloaded and sometimes illogical camera menu - unfortunately, Fuji has gone the Sony route ever since it has packed more functionality into its cameras.

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Is the XT4 more prone to overheating than the XT3 then?

Anyone actually have any experience of this themselves?

I use my XT3's hard, all day long, stills and video in typically mid 30's (Celcius!) and direct sunlight and have never had an overheating issue that I am certain of.

Last week, my filming/video designated unit would not switch on prior to speeches at a wedding and though it had not been used for a while, had been sitting in a hot glasshouse for some time.

Took the battery out and inserted a fresh one (the 'old' one still had a full charge as it was being topped up from a power bank) and it switched on and worked fine.

So I 'assume', but don't know for sure whether it was a case of overheating or some other glitch...

I have heard/read of overheating with the XT4 but like any chatter, is it just that, re-reported chatter or actual experience with described conditions?

Ultimately it is a small unit. As soon as you switch on anything electrical, it starts to heat up and maybe the IBIS that the XT4 has and the XT3 doesn't adds (significantly?) to the heat build up?

Right now, I'm skipping the XT4.

My musings are more based on carrying on with what I have for the remainder of whatever the rest of 2020 turns out to be and then into the Spring of 2021, when the one true king, the veritable next holy grail of cameras, praise him (or her), the glory that will be the XH2, plops into existence. Hopefully. With a tilt screen and not articulated. And hopefully some cooling like the S1H. But not 8k because who needs 8k? Or maybe I'll go Sony... Or Nikon...

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7 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Is the XT4 more prone to overheating than the XT3 then?

Anyone actually have any experience of this themselves?

Yes, and yes. I own the XT-4 and had the XT-3 before as a rental camera. The overheating shutdown of the X-T4 is a known fact, and openly communicated by Fuji. You're getting about 20-25 minutes video recording time out of the camera. 

Most likely, this is due to the IBIS system of the camera (which not only consumes additional power/generates heat, but also worsens dissipation of heat from the sensor). 

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Ah, OK, probably would not affect me then.

When I shoot video, it's in a second body alongside shooting stills and I only shoot clips typically from 5-15 seconds.

Very rarely, it might be 30-90 seconds, but we are talking maybe 2-3 times a day.

Last wedding I shot just over 300 clips over 15 hours so say average 10 seconds each, 1 second average every 3 minutes of the day!

Obviously there were periods of the day such as when they were eating or I was travelling to or from the church, but even if I was 'working' 10 of those hours, that still only makes 1 second of recorded footage for every 2 minutes.

I reckon even a Canon R5 could handle that. Or not... 😆

@rawshooter so if you have every bit of stabilisation switched on and you are pretending to be like a human tripod (but not leaning on anything) how tripodic (new word) is the footage, especially at focal lengths of +50mm FF equiv?

I haven't owned any recent Olympus or Panny cameras that had IBIS so no experience. In fact, other than my camcorder and phone, no IBIS experience at all... I know the supposed 6 stops OIS on the f4 16-80 is not good enough for me though.

I am thinking however, it's pretty close to being 'tripodic', I could add some warp stabiliser in post if needs be...but being freehand in principle would be a massive bonus.

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1 minute ago, MrSMW said:

@rawshooter so if you have every bit of stabilisation switched on and you are pretending to be like a human tripod (but not leaning on anything) how tripodic (new word) is the footage, especially at focal lengths of +50mm FF equiv?

Depends on the stability of your posture - sorry that I can't give a better comment. 

For using the X-T4 in walking situations, the YouTube videos of "Camera Conspiracies" give you a good idea (although I can't say that I'm a fan of that channel...)

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1 hour ago, rawshooter said:

Depends on the stability of your posture - sorry that I can't give a better comment. 

For using the X-T4 in walking situations, the YouTube videos of "Camera Conspiracies" give you a good idea (although I can't say that I'm a fan of that channel...)

OK, no worries.

I think the 'answer' is if Fuji produce an XH2, I will almost certainly buy one and test it unless it's already some glaring fail.

If it suits my needs, then a second.

If not, then I carry on with the monopod and accept it's compromise.

I suspect though that with everything switched on the XT4, that level of stabilisation would suit my needs. Providing I haven't just run up a hill.

I find that channel both quite funny and also quite irritating. No one should take it seriously unless their needs are identical to his, ie, walking along the streets talking to camera. I don't even like pans... 🤪

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The real issue IMO is that Fuji's lens lineup is in dire need of a Mark II renewal (with the same optics but new electronics, like Canon did with the STM versions of its lenses) because it's not up to modern standards for contemporary autofocus systems, i.e. AF-C  with object/face tracking in both stills photography and video. 

This is the present-day achilles heel of the Fuji X system, along with the fact that they probably need a more modern chip architecture/manufacturing process to deal with heat management. Given the current state of the camera industry, I'm not too optimistic that such an overhaul of the product portfolio will ever happen. The thermal problems with the current generation of cameras (R5/6, X-T4 and even A7Siii) really indicates that companies are  cutting costs in chip R&D and manufacturing. But Fuji could mitigate that with a bigger body in an X-H2...

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Yep, bigger body XH2 with cooling system like the S1H and even some Sigma FP modularity but no 8k chasing.

Plus the lenses, (none of which I use for video work) either some updating or video friendly new ones.

OK, there are the MK twins but they are cine specialist and tripod only jobs with the Fuji X system rather than hybrid.

The 16-55 is supposed to be the best but I have never used it for video as I use it in my stills camera at the same time. Must give it a go...

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3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The 16-55 is supposed to be the best but I have never used it for video as I use it in my stills camera at the same time. Must give it a go...

The 16-55 isn't stabilized. I use the more pedestrian 18-55mm/2.8-4, and its stabilizer works really well together with the X-T4's IBIS.

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7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

If it's of any interest, with a Fuji IBIS body (so current XT4 + battery grip or potential XH2 with hopefully integral battery grip) and focal lengths adjusted for FF equivalency using the APSC 1.5x crop + 1.29x 4k crop (video) or the 1.07 crop (stills) , my ideal dual body and lens line up would be as follows:

Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 + Tamron 45mm f1.8 + Viltrox 85mm f1.8 (3 lens options)

Fringer video equivalent = 35-68mm + 87mm + 165mm all f1.8

Ideally, I'd rather shoot all of the above 3 options handheld with rock steady 'near tripod' like results, though the 85mm lens might be asking a bit much?

 

Even on the X-T3 the 18-55 OIS is very effective for hand-held shots especially trying to stand as still as possible.

So your video lenses are selected for fast apertures, to shoot wide open (churches)?
How high in ISO do you need to go?

In weddings I’ve always wondered if the ISO exposure stepping is a problem with
zoom shots, or if no one notices…
Or do you avoid zoom shots in general?

Despite my zoom lens complaints I love the image quality from my X-T3 and have zero interest in full frame cameras.
Looking forward to X-H2!

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My principal lens choice is the Sigma with the other two being options. The Viltrox an extreme one and very rare use, but if stuck at the back at that church...

The video choices are one’s I have and use by the way, the stills hypothetical as I do use native for that currently.

Video choice was partly due to shallow DOF and low light capability and with the Fringer/Sigma duo, because the AF is better than anything native at f1.8

I don’t zoom lenses and shoot manual exposure 100% of the time so never actually seen this Fuji exposure change thing myself!

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9 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Is the XT4 more prone to overheating than the XT3 then?

 

9 hours ago, rawshooter said:

Yes, and yes. I own the XT-4 and had the XT-3 before as a rental camera. The overheating shutdown of the X-T4 is a known fact, and openly communicated by Fuji. You're getting about 20-25 minutes video recording time out of the camera. 

Most likely, this is due to the IBIS system of the camera (which not only consumes additional power/generates heat, but also worsens dissipation of heat from the sensor). 

This is interesting. I haven't posted on my T4 recording torture test yet. Last weekend I tested 4k 24p recording times in my office at 79F/26C. I was able to get almost 2 hours out of the camera, ending the test when the battery died. I recorded for about 24 minutes in 4K (limited by the amount of space on my card) then messed around the menu system, recorded a minute or so in 1080, reformatted the card and then recorded about 74 minutes in 4K by restarting record each time it ended after timing out.

During this time, I was also feeding signal to my Ninja v to monitor recording. OIS on my 17-55 was enabled, as was IBIS (but not boost mode if I remember correctly). The camera was positioned on my desk on a Ronin-S, so the stabilization wasn't actually needed. I'm not sure how much heat the IBIS generates if it's on but not actually needed. I had the screen flipped out to dissipate heat. The camera definitely got hot to the touch but didn't trigger an overheat warning or limit record times above the normal limit.

After I put in a new battery and reformatted my card, I put on my new Speedbooster with an EF 50 1.4, switched to photo mode and took a bunch of jpegs of one of my dogs, who was sleeping on my office couch (photo below, just for fun).

So, at least at reasonably warm indoor temperature overheating doesn't seem to be an overheating problem, at least not one that would cripple a reasonable video workflow. ~Two hours of actual record time on a shoot is pretty long. As I mentioned before, I got about 2 hours of total use time outside on a 90+ degree day recording external 4K plus internal 1080. I'll try to do an outdoor torture test soon, but I'm not sure how to set it up with monitor (because I'm chained to the computer until I finish editing a project for a client). So far, overheating on the T4 isn't going to hold me back. IBIS

DSCF2080.thumb.JPG.e8b720a3b4104156074b9ac40ed7e07c.JPG

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Here is a quick XT4 IS test done at the end of the afternoon. No problem with overheating. I shot about 12mn rushes in 45mn without any problem when it was  34 °C in Paris.
XT4 hand held  with my 50mm Meike cine lens + ND16 filter + lens hood. IS ON; IS boost ON.

password : isxt4

 

 

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24 minutes ago, BrunoCH said:

Here is a quick XT4 IS test done at the end of the afternoon. No problem with overheating. I shot about 12mn rushes in 45mn without any problem when it was  34 °C in Paris.
XT4 hand held  with my 50mm Meike cine lens + ND16 filter + lens hood. IS ON; IS boost ON.

How are you liking the 50mm Meike cine? Do you have the original 25mm? I'm wondering how they compare, because I have the 25 and have definitely been tempted to get the 50 and maybe the 35.

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