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@HockeyFan12:)  heres the original post which started our conversation: "Even if Arri is completely wrong about the amira being a single op cam, and sony, canon, panasonic, bm, red designed their roughly$5k-$20k lineup for the wrong demographic"

So yea, maybe it was designed for the wrong crowd?  I only took the company at its word. Others may know better.  And yes, I dont think anyone would turn down a couple dudes to hand you batteries, media, and cold beverages, regardless of cam.

 

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34 minutes ago, sam said:

@HockeyFan12:) Did Arri design the Amirra for solo ops? I only took the company at its word. Others may know better.  And yes, I dont think anyone would turn down a couple dudes to hand you batteries, media, and cold beverages, regardless of cam.

 

I think what Arri means (someone else can correct me if I'm mistaken) is that most of the UI and buttons on the Amira are placed on the left side of the camera, facing the operator. Whereas traditionally, and on the Alexa Studio, they'd be on the right side of the camera, where the AC could hit record and make adjustments.

Traditionally camera operators aren't tasked with hitting record, but since different operators work differently I assume there are record buttons on both sides of both cameras–but the UI is switched on the Amira so the camera op can make adjustments to frame rate, etc. without an AC. I think. Arri might have also added focus peaking so the operator can pull focus without an AC; I'm pretty sure that's on the Amira viewfinder and I don't remember it being in the Alexa one. Not sure.

Don't quote me on this, but I think that's the main difference. Not that it's ideal for a single operator, but that in some limited circumstances (such as NFL films), it's conceivable a single operator could use one because the UI is on the other side of the camera.

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FWIW I do frequently see Amiras being used in that same NFL role at larger football (the real type ;) ) events here in Europe. 

Its always single operator with assistant very much in the role of general helper (though his exact beverage dispensing duties remains unclear) and shooting what you would probably describe as cinematic ENG for want of a better description.

CinENG as I'll now call it!

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3 hours ago, sam said:

And yes, I dont think anyone would turn down a couple dudes to hand you batteries, media, and cold beverages, regardless of cam.

I'm not even using a camera, using a microphone, and I'd like this too please!

2 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I think what Arri means (someone else can correct me if I'm mistaken) is that most of the UI and buttons on the Amira are placed on the left side of the camera, facing the operator. Whereas traditionally, and on the Alexa Studio, they'd be on the right side of the camera, where the AC could hit record and make adjustments

Exactly! ARRI ALEXA is designed with a crew in mind, while the AMIRA is configured differently in a number of smaller and bigger ways so that going solo (or with a very small crew) is at least an *option*.

 

 

 

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I expect I'll get a lot of flack for even suggesting this: but if all you need is a small crew to carry around tripods and lights, unpack and help set up the shoot, it isn't that difficult to find and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Many young people want to learn the craft. There's no reason why anyone is forced to work solo. I don't shoot professionally, and I use college students, but they help me with reflectors, changing filters, setting up the LED lights, raising or lowering the tripod, carrying stuff - even just monitoring audio. 

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^ Nothing wrong in getting volunteers but i suspect your location may help. Here in the west, nobody seems to work for free and students will want at very least an internship.

 

Anyways, this being mainly a small camera forum I'm not surprised at all by the general consensus/bias towards them but to claim "Anything bigger than a dslr is too complex for a solo shooter" is highly innacurate.. I'd like to argue cams like Cx00/FS5/EVA1 are actually less complex then their DSLR/MILC counterparts with proper ergonomics, dedicated buttons & dials, ND filters, bigger LCD, better battery life etc.. once you rig up a DSLR/MILC it can become a lot less intuitive & balanced to operate imo..

ENG cameramen have been operating heavy duty cams single handedly for decades.. a proper shoulder mount kit can go long ways..

Just so happens in most bigger projects requiring higher end cine cams (RED/ARRI), the budget usually allows for a crew. and is mandatory anyways in most narrative work.

That said i know several DPs that (occasionally) work fine solo with Ursa Minis, REDs etc.. it really isn't that monumental to set up tripod/slider/lights. and if it's just a product/beauty studio shot they don't necesarily need an AC or even assistant to operate.

 

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3 hours ago, Django said:

Here in the west, nobody seems to work for free

Nah, you can always find people who will work for free on short films and such. 

 

Doesnt mean they'd be any good... or reliable. 

3 hours ago, Django said:

 

Anyways, this being mainly a small camera forum I'm not surprised at all by the general consensus/bias towards them but to claim "Anything bigger than a dslr is too complex for a solo shooter" is highly innacurate.. I'd like to argue cams like Cx00/FS5/EVA1 are actually less complex then their DSLR/MILC counterparts with proper ergonomics, dedicated buttons & dials, ND filters, bigger LCD, better battery life etc.. once you rig up a DSLR/MILC it can become a lot less intuitive & balanced to operate imo..

 

Agreed, rather shoot any day of the week with an EVA1 than a stills camera. 

 

But an AMIRA is in a totally different size category to an EVA1

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21 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Nah, you can always find people who will work for free on short films and such. 

 

Doesnt mean they'd be any good... or reliable. 

Who said anything about volunteers? 😬 Oh, that’s right - somehow my words got twisted. hehe But yes, there are ppl everywhere willing to work.

I’m not saying you said so, but it’s a cop out for anyone to say they can’t find one or two students to help them work on any kind of film whatsoever. 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Nah, you can always find people who will work for free on short films and such. 

 

Doesnt mean they'd be any good... or reliable. 

 

well for me personally that's not an option. I like to keep sets at a dead minimum possible. Anybody that isn't vital and hence experienced/trustworthy shouldn't be present imo. Not to get all Christian Bale-ish, but the amount of amateurs/onlookers etc that have slowed down, straight up ruined a take/scene or worst wrecked equipment is catastrophic. I'd rather carry the extra weight, take the extra time with a tiny crew i trust 100% then hire a bunch of help that will be loitering or worst during the day. that's just me though, some people love the god syndrome of a overpopulated set! of course if it's a hobby or indie project, you'll often take anything you can get..

 

Quote

Agreed, rather shoot any day of the week with an EVA1 than a stills camera. 

 

But an AMIRA is in a totally different size category to an EVA1

 

nobody is going to argue that.. they're in a totally different category period!

but compared to Alexas it's pretty obvious Arri's marketing them towards a more high-end ENG market:

Amira boots up quickly and can be used straight out of the bag by a single user, with no setting up, no rigging and no delays. Sliding dovetails allow the camera to be perfectly shoulder-balanced for comfortable handheld shooting, while the innovative multi-viewfinder combines a high resolution OLED eyepiece with a fold-away LCD monitor that provides both a live view and full access to camera functions.

• Quick start-up – ready to shoot
• Optimized for the single operator
• Sliding dovetails – perfect shoulder balance
• Internal ND filters (0.6/1.2/2.1)
• OLED eyepiece and fold-away LCD monitor
• Multi-channel audio – easy-access controls

8dba5c0d19c454c7ec49c3653ce7ecc6.png

Not for everyone obviously, but for who can afford them and want that ARRI look handheld (e.g. NFL Films, high-end docus, action/war movie scenes etc) it clearly has it's purpose

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Hire whomever you like, @Django. You just made my point - you can always find people willing to work, at pretty much whatever skill level you need. Southeast Asia doesn’t have a monopoly on eager, hardworking, dependable crew members.

I only mentioned college students for those who aren’t Christian Bale and are on a budget. I got three jobs through my own college after graduation - one at Chevrolet headquarters in Warren, Michigan, another as a studio assistant at an automotive studio, and at a professional lab. Employers often called the department head to fill positions, and graduates are eager to begin work right away. At least, I was.

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5 hours ago, Django said:

@jonpais With an average salary of $145 for a Vietnamese worker, somehow I feel it is going to be easier to find qualified help. anyways glad it's working out for you down there mate!

Some PAs make that little where I live, too. I've seen $150/day jobs. That doesn't seem so bad just getting started for a PA, though on reality tv PAs get closer to $400/day. I think people take low pay jobs for experience and networking, not the money.

That said, I don't get how anyone lives off $150/day without support from family. Living wage is about $100k-$150k/year here, not that I'm necessarily pulling that in myself.

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6 hours ago, Django said:

while the innovative multi-viewfinder combines a high resolution OLED eyepiece with a fold-away LCD monitor that provides both a live view and full access to camera functions.

I damn love that fold out monitor on the AMIRA! Has been so useful for me in recent week's a small the camera operator has been quite generous in positioning it for me keep an eye on it for framing while booming.

 

6 hours ago, Django said:


• Internal ND filters (0.6/1.2/2.1)
• OLED eyepiece and fold-away LCD monitor
• Multi-channel audio – easy-access controls

Am not a fan of dovetails on an ultra small crew, unless you have too, Sony VCT for me!

 

AMIRA certainly has the friendliest audio of all the ARRI cameras. 

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4 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Some PAs make that little where I live, too. I've seen $150/day jobs. That doesn't seem so bad just getting started for a PA, though on reality tv PAs get closer to $400/day. I think people take low pay jobs for experience and networking, not the money.

That said, I don't get how anyone lives off $150/day without support from family. Living wage is about $100k-$150k/year here, not that I'm necessarily pulling that in myself.

hahaha! where are you living?With 150K per year here, you could buy a nice little house on a different Mediterranean island per year! and in Vietnam you could buy a - not that small - village.

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12 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

@Kisaha After taxes thats half an house per year for you ;) 

But in all seriousness, living in a big city in the US for example can be expensive. It depends of course on anyone needs, but for a family of 4 $100-150K sounds about right.  

The world is an unequal place!

2015 numbers.

0 - 25.000euros   88.3%

25 - 42.000euros   8.4%

< 42.000euros        3.4%, but 7/10 have their own house/apartment(/home) and 32.8% owns a secondary property (highest percentage in Europe).

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