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Andrew Reid

Nikon D850 vs everything

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1 hour ago, Gianluca said:

Dude, the resolution in 4K of the D850 is as good as the 1D X Mark II / 1D C...

https://***URL removed***/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=nikon_d850&attr29_1=canon_eos1dxii&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=c4k&normalization=full&widget=555&x=-0.585179526355997&y=0.08446496469310162

What's not to like.

I don't tend to quibble over small resolution differences at 4K on charts anyway....Why? At this level, resolution is already so more than you really need even for cinema screenings, yes, and even in 2017. I don't care whether it is effectively 4K or 3.8K or even 3K. At 1080p, I can quibble all I like! (Oh and 1080 on the D850 is superb by the way).

The D850's 4K resolution is nothing to be sniffed at. There's some purple false colour on the D850 chart (like ALL the other Nikon cameras, funnily enough) but the actual level of detail and especially real-world detail is a match to the 1D C. Yet on the Nikon you are getting more for your money and fixing the lovely 1D C's biggest downsides (lack of articulated screen and unworkably large file sizes). The colour and white balance are superb and the image pipeline, processing and codec are top notch, as good looking as the Canon. You're getting a smaller form factor, lighter body, better stills, articulated screen, cheaper price and 4K file sizes that are actually practical... The 1D X Mark II only has two advantages and certainly not the codec - it is less rolling shutter and of course Dual Pixel AF yet films have been shot with manual focus since the start to the present day and there's a reason for that. AF still isn't bullet proof or organic looking enough... It's nice to have, it's practical and convenient for run & gun, but it isn't cinema and you don't actually need it for most cinematography.

What's more you need to put chart tests into context. If there's some purple false colour on very fine black and white circles and lines at DPReview, but these things never occur outside of charts, then what is more important is that A) it looks nice when you point it at REAL STUFF and B) it does 4K from an 8K sensor!! - a huge technical achievement and gives you the benefit of 46MP stills, which the Sony A9 and 1D C simply cannot compete with.

Then there is the Nikon flat profile and colour science, which is superior to Sony, and even superior to Canon in terms of some subjects.

A9 does not have a C-LOG-like profile nor can you add one. No S-LOG. No EOSHD Pro Color. Just the standard crap Sony colour.

The codec is also very good on the D850... Higher bitrate than the Sonys and cleaner shadows, smoother to edit and better looking grain.

There is also the fact that low light performance is excellent considering the 46MP count sensor and superior ergonomics to all the Sony cameras, superior to the A99 II as well, which I actually liked more than the A9. The D850 is a much better stills camera than both of them.

Oh and it is full frame... So that look, in the real world, trumps anything minor that appears on a fucking chart.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
9 hours ago, CanonTheBarbarian said:

how can we take nikon seriously if they use sony sensor ... , what is left of that  once proud company... ? F3 was their pinnacle  really

it's seems that only canon and leica have charisma (and perhaps fuji) 

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From everything I've seen, it's not a Sony sensor.  It's Nikon's design, manufactured by a third party (not Sony).

5 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Yeah thats what I see as well. Aliasing is even worse than the 4K FF from A7rii which many people don't like. 

Really hope Nikon can do something better with their mirrorless. 

I expect rolling shutter to not match the GH5.  The GH5 is 20MP, and the D850 is a massive 46MP.  That's a lot of data to read.

I'm not seeing the aliasing you are talking about.  What are you looking at?

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The sensor is not made by Sony. Its an Israel based company if I remember correctly.

Any aliasing I will guess comes from a non full screen. Regular screen size artifacts. Unless I missed something. Everything I see is aliasing free.

Charts dont show image quality so I haven't even looked at those..

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11 hours ago, CanonTheBarbarian said:

how can we take nikon seriously if they use sony sensor ... , what is left of that  once proud company... ? F3 was their pinnacle  really

it's seems that only canon and leica have charisma (and perhaps fuji) 

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The Nikon D850 doesn't use a Sony sensor you silly "Canon person"

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

The sensor is not made by Sony. Its an Israel based company if I remember correctly.

Any aliasing I will guess comes from a non full screen. Regular screen size artifacts. Unless I missed something. Everything I see is aliasing free.

Charts dont show image quality so I haven't even looked at those..

oh boy, still then don't make their own sensor...

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27 minutes ago, CanonTheBarbarian said:

oh boy, still then don't make their own sensor...

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I really like the 5Dmkiii, always been a pleasure owning one for a number of reasons.
But who made the sensor isn't one of them. I couldn't care less about that.

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4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I really like the 5Dmkiii, always been a pleasure owning one for a number of reasons.
But who made the sensor isn't one of them. I couldn't care less about that.

Mattias - CTB approves your youtube channel!

but think about it, where is the prestige and charisma if they outsource their sensor ? how boring nikon became... leica got KODAK to do it for them (CCD hnnnnnnngggggg) which is super cool 

no one should care about paperspecs, dats why canon is so cool and thats why fuji has it's mojo but nikon, sony mehhh, not to mention GOOFY nikon controls oh boy

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9 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

59e59cb5845d4_ScreenShot2017-10-17at1_00_48AM.thumb.png.d3f4ae7624f9a02e169e058003ad4687.png

The a9 looks pretty clean.  So does the GH5.  The problem is everyone in the studio shot looks like they have sunburn with the a9.  Also when you look at the brush, it looks like it has some artifacting with the a9, likes it's being oversharpened.

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Andrew wrote:

"Higher bitrate than the Sonys and cleaner shadows, smoother to edit and better looking grain."

One question: You convert into Prores with Edit ready before editing Nikon files, right?

Just wondered because you wrote "smoother to edit"

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Shot a 5 second clip from my office chair of the people around me.
Used the D500 in HD, Nikon Flat, 50mm f1.8.
Imported into FCPX, adjusted the lift, gamma, gain.
Added lut.
Remembered why I loved the Nikon colors of the D750.

It needs almost no work and just looks great. 
The two people in the clip was both caucasian and a couple of shades darker.
Both looked alive and kicking :)

Now Im debating if I should trade for the d750.... but I must say. The AF on the D500.. wow.

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The D750 is great for 1080p Mattias. Like D500 but full frame. The AF for stills is still pretty good, too.

I wonder if DPReview shot the 4K chart in 30fps and not 24fps, and it's possible a harsher pixel binning is in action creating more aliasing in that mode than in 24p... Because what is a bit weird is that the A7R II looks identical to the A99 II in full frame 4K, whereas to my experience the A99 II was an improvement... The D850 is a further improvement with the updated sensor, it has less moire and false detail than my A99 II in a real-world head-to-head but oddly on the DPReview 4K chart scene it shows more stair-stepping / aliasing. I honestly hardly notice it in everything I've shot so far on mine! (24p, full frame 4K)

I'm not too hung up on these chart results, but each to their own!

BTW

Download the JPEGs from DPReview of the 4K chart scene for the D850 and Samsung NX1

https://***URL removed***/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=nikon_d850&attr29_1=samsung_nx1&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=555&x=-0.36881169178973144&y=-0.6556811913954771

The NX1 is one of the most alive and sharp 4K cameras around. I've always loved the image.

The D850 4K frame-grab in JPEG format viewed full screen looks more detailed than the NX1, which is really surprising, but yes it does have more stair-stepping on some parts of the chart and the purple false color on the fine black & white stripes. Again though, in real world, it's practically a non-issue.

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@CanonTheBarbarian

The sensor is supposedly being made by a company called Jazztower, or something similar (and somehow silly!).

It is a multinational company with fabs in 2 or 3 continents, and a big percentage belongs to Panasonic, and they are having a new facility in China (for the very first time, they used to have very specialized labs/fans in America and Israel). So you can add Panasonic to the impressive companies too, even though Panasonic takes most of their sensors from Sony.

Then there is JVC that owns and operate sensor manufacturing fabs (like for the JVC LS300). Fuji, that you so much admire - I do too - takes their sensors from Sony.

Business wise, too much dependency from Sony, is a clear disadvantage for the other companies, but it is a completely different division under the Sony Corporation umbrella, and - supposedly - the sensor division can make a sensor under Nikon (or who ever) guideline, and the camera division will never learn. At least that is what Sony says! In anyway, sensor wise, things are quite complicated, at one point a year or two ago, Sony controlled the vast majority of sensor making in the world, now there are new players and more investments happening.

All in all, this is a great camera, just waiting for the mirrorless now!

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