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Asmundma

GH5 focus excellence

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16 minutes ago, Phil A said:

@Ken Ross Out of curiosity, is all you film 60p? AF looks ok, I wonder if you checked if it behaves the same in 24p/23.976p

All were done in 60p, but much of what Max did was also done in 60p when he still incurred failures. I've concentrated on 60p because I intend to shoot in 60p more often.

8 minutes ago, eleison said:

I looked at those videos.  yeah, the GH5 focusing sucks.  Don't look at the subject, but look at the surrounding area.  You can see the camera going back and forth even in static shots trying to anticipate movement.  In the shallow depth of field videos, the back and forth caused the blurred background to "bloom" and de-"bloom".  The a7sii does the same thing and it annoys the hell out of me.  The a6500 doesn't and that is one of the reason I still have it (even though it has horrible rolling shutter).  a6500 is a focusing god compared to the a7sii and apparently to the gh5 also.  Oh, well, I guess Panasonic wouldn't be selling as many gh5s as they thought they would.  They were focusing on image quality while a lot of people have "moved on" from image quality and is looking for things like auto focusing.

Photojoseph guy.. dude, what a shill.  His videos show the lens focusing back and forth.  Yeah, the subject (him) is in focus, but the camera is still focusing back and forth trying to anticipate movement.  Good focusing cameras don't do that.  Perhaps, I'm wrong.  Maybe, he's not a shill, but just ignorant. Or maybe he doesn't care that the camera was "hunting" because the subject was in focus.  However, no real video professional would accept that type of focusing.  I cannot think of any movie that has that type of focusing without doing it on purpose.  And I'm having a hard time remembering any movie, tv show that would do that on purpose.

Not sure if you're referring to my videos, but if so, sure, why would we look at the subject. When I shoot a video I'm just praying people will ignore the subject and focus on the background. Do you even notice how much better the AF is in my video than the total defocused mess in Max's video? Do you not even see this? Good grief. The GH5 AF is fine, thank you, but it's obviously not for you.

And again, I shot in that very same mall with the esteemed A6300 and it often wouldn't even focus on the subject and instead, focus totally on the background. I never had that once with the GH5. I'll take a bit of hunting over a total ignoring of the subject. I don't believe there was any improvement in the A6500 in terms of AF.

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8 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Sure, why would we look at the subject. When I shoot a video I'm just praying people will ignore the subject and focus on the background. The GH5 AF is fine, thank you, but it's obviously not for you.

Having the background fade in and out is annoying and distracting to the viewer (IMHO).  No tv shows, No movies, no music videos does it (unless done on purpose, and then, I'm still having a hard time finding those.  OR they are low quality productions made by a guy living in his mom's basement)

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First most movies, TV shows and music videos don't use AF, they use MF. So what else would you expect. Beyond that, the background was not so distracting and most certainly did not 'fade in and fade out' (a bit of hyperbole there) that most viewers would ever notice it. 

You also keep ignoring the intent of my videos, to show how much better other GH5s are than what Max showed in his.

And your comment that most people have moved on from image quality is truly amazing. Moved on? Really? Okeedokey.

Get the Sony, it seems to be where you're headed. Enjoy it, it's a great camera.

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"Pulsing" in AF mode is an old Pana problem, facing FZ1000 and new models too (as the FZ2000). The only way to sail around this AF flaw (continuous AF) is to lock and use the area mode (I told this @jonpais in this forum some times though...). When using a Pana in area mode (subject within a fixed AF area), there is no much pulsing/micro-hunting forth and back (microadjustments of the faulty AF).

Take a look at the "successful" AF video of PhotoJoseph...Full of visible and abyssmal pulsing forth and back in the background. Look at the video of Peter Gregg...Again the pulsing when focusing on the remote of his TV...Hehe, this is a "P&P"-camera - permanently pulsing and pumping...

It's simply a shame to blame users by saying, they can not handle it. Same users do well with Canons DPAF and with Sony's standard settings. No need to go to a university to use AF. It's simply a barefaced claim of fanboys & paid henchmen, who simply don't want to accept the truth. BTW: I use more Pana cameras, but AF on them is simply BS...far away from current standards...By "tweaking" you can get it to work in some situations...Continuous AF for professional use has to be reliable, that's why many DOPs rent the C300 mII...

The AF ist not a great strength of the GH5...But as many Pana fanboys claim, AF is only for pussies... :grin:

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5 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

First most movies, TV shows and music videos don't use AF, they use MF. So what else would you expect. Beyond that, the background was not so distracting and most certainly did not 'fade in and fade out' (a bit of hyperbole there) that most viewers would ever notice it. 

And your comment that most people have moved on from image quality is truly amazing. Moved on? Really? Okeedokey.

Get the Sony, it seems to be where you're headed. Enjoy it, it's a great camera.

On static shots, the background on videos recorded on the iphone (or my lowly lg g4) doesn't fade in and out like the gh5... just saying :-)  I agree with you though.  Depending on the person, this may or may not be an issue.  To me, it's a big issue.  That is one of the biggest reason why I want to sell my a7sii and why I haven't sold my a6500.  If the rumors are true about the a7siii coming out later this month and if these issues are fixed; I will be buying one................... after I sell my 2nd kidney to a Chinese hospital.

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10 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

"Pulsing" in AF mode is an old Pana problem, facing FZ1000 and new models too (as the FZ2000). The only way to sail around this AF flaw (continuous AF) is to lock and use the area mode (I told this @jonpais in this forum some times though...). When using a Pana in area mode (subject within a fixed AF area), there is no much pulsing/micro-hunting forth and back (microadjustments of the faulty AF).

Take a look at the "successful" AF video of PhotoJoseph...Full of visible and abyssmal pulsing forth and back in the background. Look at the video of Peter Gregg...Again the pulsing when focusing on the remote of his TV...Hehe, this is a "P&P"-camera - permanently pulsing and pumping...

It's simply a shame to blame users by saying, they can not handle it. Same users do well with Canons DPAF and with Sony's standard settings. No need to go to a university to use AF. It's simply a barefaced claim of fanboys & paid henchmen, who simply don't want to accept the truth. BTW: I use more Pana cameras, but AF on them is simply BS...far away from current standards...By "tweaking" you can get it to work in some situations...Continuous AF for professional use has to be reliable, that's why many DOPs rent the C300 mII...

The AF ist not a great strength of the GH5...But as many Pana fanboys claim, AF is only for pussies... :grin:

I think the point is that most of wouldn't use CAF with any of these cameras. If I was shooting these things 'for real', I'd use AF lock or MF. That would totally eliminate the hunting. I've had total misses and hunting with my A6300 too, nothing new using CAF. My point in these videos was to simply show how much better, even the CAF can be, in a GH5 than what Max showed. I think you'll agree mine were considerably better in that mine was able to achieve the focus his simply didn't...a blurry mess. 

 

8 minutes ago, eleison said:

On static shots, the background on videos recorded on the iphone (or my lowly lg g4) doesn't fade in and out like the gh5... just saying :-)  I agree with you though.  Depending on the person, this may or may not be an issue.  To me, it's a big issue.  That is one of the biggest reason why I want to sell my a7sii and why I haven't sold my a6500.  If the rumors are true about the a7siii coming out later this month and if these issues are fixed; I will be buying one................... after I sell my 2nd kidney to a Chinese hospital.

Of course any cellphone video camera, with their huge DOF, won't show hunting. That's not a tribute to their CAF, it's simply what happens when you have an almost infinite DOF. I've moved on from Sonys because I just don't like their color, missing features and none are offering 4K60p. Unless Sony solves the overheating with 4K30p, they won't (or shouldn't ) move to 4K60p.

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@Nodnarb

Quote

This discussion reminds me of an article from a couple years ago titled: Camera Wars: Why Autofocus is the New Megapixel.

That's an interesting aspect, but we should consider the reality, eg in Germany: Many editorial staffs know nowadays, that video is becoming more and more important. BUT - as newspapers income drive more and more down at the moment - there is no money for a video specialist (=specialized video journalist). So they give their "normal" editorial staff menbers a camera for photos and filming. This camera MUST be quite cheap, must take acceptable photos and the (from filming point of view) "uneducated video-journalists" must deliver quite nice results. So...many of them use the 70D - because it's affordable, simple to use, it has a "foolproof" AF and nearly every kid can get good results with it...NOT spectacular cinema, but subjects are almost always in focus, so the footage they download to their YT channel is perfectly acceptable as "documentary style"...

And there are not only journalists acting this way, there are soccer moms and pops and many other people just happy to get OOC footage that is mostly in focus...

On the other side, there are many pros nowadays, admitting, that they are never so good in focusing compared to reliable AF systems. So, if you have to consider production costs as DOP, AF is in some situations much cheaper and faster getting to good in focus shots than repeating the same scene 10 times with a dozen of assistants...

And don't forget the claim: "Capture the moment!". When you want to capture a moment - with no chance for a re-take - and the moment is unpredictable, AF has an immense importance...In my eyes, the megapixel discussion is mostly a theoretical (nowadays 20 megapixel are enough for 99% of users) one, while AF is a matter of necessity - likewise for pros, amateurish moms and enthusiasts...

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49 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Proper soap opera this now

 

Max knows a lot more about Panasonic cameras than the so-called luminary, who spent most of his time justifying himself with defensive body language and filling the airwaves with repetitive waffle.

Max 2-0 up with another video to come...

 

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11 minutes ago, Davey said:

Max knows a lot more about Panasonic cameras than the so-called luminary, who spent most of his time justifying himself with defensive body language and filling the airwaves with repetitive waffle.

Max 2-0 up with another video to come...

 

YouTube being YouTube there's bound to be a conspiracy nut preparing a "They're both double agent Sony shills playing a long game to promote the A6500" response video already.

I might even do it myself !

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9 minutes ago, Davey said:

Max knows a lot more about Panasonic cameras than the so-called luminary, who spent most of his time justifying himself with defensive body language and filling the airwaves with repetitive waffle.

Max 2-0 up with another video to come...

 

Dude, Joe doesn't know anything about video making.  This video makes it obvious that he's just a photographer that got his hands on a gh5 and wanted to please his corporate sponsor, Panasonic by defending the gh5.  I guess for this situation, the old saying, "experience is key" is correct.  Max has experience in video making.  Joe not so much.

Max should just ignore Joe.  Makes no sense for Max to work with Joe.  Ignore and move on.

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

YouTube being YouTube there's bound to be a conspiracy nut preparing a "They're both double agent Sony shills playing a long game to promote the A6500" response video already.

I might even do it myself !

They are both shills for Sony... to promote the a7siii!!! hahahahhaaaa..  (there's more profit margin for the company).. hahaha

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Well they mentioned my videos @25:13. Joe bookmarked them and ask Max how would he explain my results being so different from his. Max said he hasn't seen them. I've provided the links to them on his 3 Panasonic AF videos. Oh well.

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39 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Well they mentioned my videos @25:13. Joe bookmarked them and ask Max how would he explain my results being so different from his. Max said he hasn't seen them. I've provided the links to them on his 3 Panasonic AF videos. Oh well.

Here you have... (can we call it now?) bias.

 

5 hours ago, Arikhan said:

(...) this is a "P&P"-camera - permanently pulsing and pumping...

It's simply a shame to blame users by saying, they can not handle it. Same users do well with Canons DPAF and with Sony's standard settings. No need to go to a university to use AF.

From 6:38 on...

 

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42 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Emanuel, not sure I understand.

I believe in his honest efforts to begin with. But, his perspective is flawed now. To criticize the GH5 manual disclaimer, some other example, doesn't help at all, only can confirm it. He's trying his best only to stay reliable on the picture. Unless he had a malfunctioning unit to test with (which I doubt), your testing shows there's something going wrong with the methodology of his tests. To me, he had to even be more complete than he was. GH5 AF system is complex enough to require the customization of distinct scenarios.

Still hoping he will come to understand and stand corrected it.

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Emanuel, at least for his indoor tests he did acknowledge the background in his office can be very challenging and confusing for some cameras. So it might have been nice for him to change his location, within his office, to see if a different result was obtained. I really wish he had seen and commented on my clips.

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23 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Emanuel, at least for his indoor tests he did acknowledge the background in his office can be very challenging and confusing for some cameras. So it might have been nice for him to change his location, within his office, to see if a different result was obtained. I really wish he had seen and commented on my clips.

In fact. Michael Ma had hinted it.

Your tests touch his reliability. You are a serious player as camera user amongst his audience, he is a professional cameras reviewer. That's the difference he sees. It matters.

Reason why I also blame this revolution when mirrorless cameras start to be introduced as mere digital cameras and the usual players as professional camera experts post stuff like this:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?353650-GH5-Autofocus-Test&p=1986693286&viewfull=1#post1986693286

The world is upside down! Glad, it is. Paul Leeming can be seen as one of them, he is surely brave enough but he is only one of us :-)

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6 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Proper soap opera this now

 

Why does Joseph keep referring to Max's a6500 as 'that little Sony you have'? Is he even aware that it has an APS-C sensor? By these linguistic tricks it sounds like he's trying to compare it to a point-and-shoot.

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