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Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

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32 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

Bloggers don't like it :O 

 

He's both irritating and a little funny at the same time. Maybe a little obnoxious. But... when he's vlogging out on the street, if it were me, I'd just put the camera in manual focus and use the AF lock button to focus on my face, and there wouldn't be any hunting at all. I've done it - no need for AF-C there. Also, when he's sitting behind his desk, I'd use AF-S and tap my face on the iPad. No more drifting. I did that for a recent ten-minute video, and with a 12mm lens set at f/4-5.6, everything stayed sharp the entire time. Anyhow, he doesn't neglect to point out the hoops he has to go through to make the Sony work. I'm not sure about the stabilization issues he's having - I use a gimbal when I'm out on the street. As far as charging the battery through the USB port, that would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker for me. He says battery life dropped thirty percent or so after 20 minutes of just going through the menu, I don't find that so exceptionally terrible at all. As far as UHS II card readers, he says his laptop is slow and he had to buy a reader, but that's no fault of the camera. I'm still on the fence at the moment, I've been thinking of cancelling my preorder, but if I did, it wouldn't necessarily be because of the autofocus - it would have more to do with the fact that spending more money on a new camera isn't going to magically make my videos any more compelling.

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1 hour ago, Orangenz said:

Bloggers don't like it :O 

 

The g85 had that weird jerky motion with ibis that they "fixed" with a firmware. It's rearing its head with the gh5? Af is dodgy and this reviewer says ibis is questionable as well. I wonder if it can do simple slow handheld pans or tilts with the ibis without that drag and then jump to catch up motion. I would like to see the movement from a static shot to the move and then back to a static shot. If all this new tech has kinks I hope the 10bit color in v-log and 4k 60p is worth it at this price and that sensor.

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@jonpais

Quote

it would have more to do with the fact that spending more money on a new camera isn't going to magically make my videos any more compelling.

That's it! BTW: I like your portrait shootings, specially composition, skin tones and general settings, as currently done with your gx85.

I would wish a story...a story about the people or locations you're filming...something narrative, making your beautiful and balanced images even more beautiful...People telling their story - there are no banal stories out there, dumb reviews solely fixed on imagery (IQ) are banal and boring. Engaging stories about people and locations (special places in Vietnam?) are much more interesting for your audience than 5.000 boring reviews on the same subject/camera. Don't rely on the "love" of gear heads, use your talent in portraiture to tell stories (with voice over) about real life and real people and locations. It could be a harder way at the beginning, but it will last longer...Just my 2 cents...

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2 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

@jonpais

That's it! BTW: I like your portrait shootings, specially composition, skin tones and general settings, as currently done with your gx85.

I would wish a story...a story about the people or locations you're filming...something narrative, making your beautiful and balanced images even more beautiful...People telling their story - there are no banal stories out there, dumb reviews solely fixed on imagery (IQ) are banal and boring. Engaging stories about people and locations (special places in Vietnam?) are much more interesting for your audience than 5.000 boring reviews on the same subject/camera. Don't rely on the "love" of gear heads, use your talent in portraiture to tell stories (with voice over) about real life and real people and locations. It could be a harder way at the beginning, but it will last longer...Just my 2 cents...

Agreed. I did do a couple of dumb documentaries a while back, but I should try telling stories. My two goals when I retired were (a) to start vlogging and (b) to start making some 2-3 minute shorts for YT. And aside from a really short field test of Acros simulation with the X-T2, I haven't really shown the environment at all. So those are just a couple of the many things I have to work on.

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13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Agreed. I did do a couple of dumb documentaries a while back, but I should try telling stories. My two goals when I retired were (a) to start vlogging and (b) to start making some 2-3 minute shorts for YT. And aside from a really short field test of Acros simulation with the X-T2, I haven't really shown the environment at all. So those are just a couple of the many things I have to work on.

There are no "dumb" documentaries in my eyes...A documentary mostly tells a story...

It's quite hard to do 2-3 minutes shorts...It's an art to do a self-contained and explaining story in this short time...BTW: Don't believe the claim "films longer than 2-3 minutes are useless because people don't watch them". It's an ignorant lie - may be relevant for news, selfish corporate image films or commercials, but not for good stories...

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6 hours ago, Orangenz said:

Bloggers don't like it :O 

 

The world is not all lost, after all (well, only the 1st one is mine :-D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13rwplrhlfzztpyz04chxzyhqyfcfxhlkw0k

"To begin with, you'd use the brains to make a choice, same thing where you want the focus, then you'd lock it. Now seems simple, isn't it? ;-) This camera is not for people who don't understand a shit about it. But, apart the appearances (we all bet you don't speak all the time like that), when we go deep in your review, it's not hard to get you are not a moron, so what's up when you're unable to find a way? Did you test tap-to-focus by any chance? What will Matt Frazer think of you when you'll see each other next time?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z12yxly43ozispyw004ccziy2onatvfj2bw

"The GH5 is not made for VLOG and selfies... Get a Canon 70D at $800 for that and you'll be happy with the AF. People who spend $2k for the GH5 do it for the image quality and bit depth, they'll use manual focus (peaking) or lock AF anyway. (...)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z12yxly43ozispyw004ccziy2onatvfj2bw.1491808591358142

"V-Log works perfectly on mine. I dont like the stabilisation but the rest ist just wonderfull. even the AF is very good. its a prosumer camera so you have to choose settings. if you change the 225 focus modus to center you get better results as the rx100, i´m sure about that"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13bjzc4avn4ed3pn04cjbliwx3tjfzhiao

"I think its obvious you shot in the 225 mode and that the problem. the sony focuses whatever is in the center, you can do the same with the gh5 if you choose center focus"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13qfj1gjonqit2xo04ce1jyluqzyrl4ifc

"Just curious, you have a tablet on the table. Why dont you use the app to set the focus and have it set to a fixed point? I do that with the GH4 and works out great!"

 

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

He's both irritating and a little funny at the same time. Maybe a little obnoxious. But... when he's vlogging out on the street, if it were me, I'd just put the camera in manual focus and use the AF lock button to focus on my face, and there wouldn't be any hunting at all. I've done it - no need for AF-C there. Also, when he's sitting behind his desk, I'd use AF-S and tap my face on the iPad. No more drifting. I did that for a recent ten-minute video, and with a 12mm lens set at f/4-5.6, everything stayed sharp the entire time. Anyhow, he doesn't neglect to point out the hoops he has to go through to make the Sony work. I'm not sure about the stabilization issues he's having - I use a gimbal when I'm out on the street. As far as charging the battery through the USB port, that would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker for me. He says battery life dropped thirty percent or so after 20 minutes of just going through the menu, I don't find that so exceptionally terrible at all. As far as UHS II card readers, he says his laptop is slow and he had to buy a reader, but that's no fault of the camera. I'm still on the fence at the moment, I've been thinking of cancelling my preorder, but if I did, it wouldn't necessarily be because of the autofocus - it would have more to do with the fact that spending more money on a new camera isn't going to magically make my videos any more compelling.

Great post, Jon! Nice to read you :-)

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5 hours ago, jonpais said:

Agreed. I did do a couple of dumb documentaries a while back, but I should try telling stories. My two goals when I retired were (a) to start vlogging and (b) to start making some 2-3 minute shorts for YT. And aside from a really short field test of Acros simulation with the X-T2, I haven't really shown the environment at all. So those are just a couple of the many things I have to work on.

Quite sincerely, your eyes go beyond YT : ) The way you film the little Vietnam I've seen. Even sound design, as for instance. Recalls my imaginary on Vietnam history through the best of American cinema. Word. The care you put to shoot it too. Not only as director, but as DoP / operator. Without mention the way you post here. That is, your ideário in my native language, set of ideas, kinda ideology, in English. You can target your work for big screen IMHO. Your imagetic calls for it.

Just my two cents,

E :-) 

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1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

The world is not all lost, after all (well, only the 1st one is mine :-D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13rwplrhlfzztpyz04chxzyhqyfcfxhlkw0k

"To begin with, you'd use the brains to make a choice, same thing where you want the focus, then you'd lock it. Now seems simple, isn't it? ;-) This camera is not for people who don't understand a shit about it. But, apart the appearances (we all bet you don't speak all the time like that), when we go deep in your review, it's not hard to get you are not a moron, so what's up when you're unable to find a way? Did you test tap-to-focus by any chance? What will Matt Frazer think of you when you'll see each other next time?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z12yxly43ozispyw004ccziy2onatvfj2bw

"The GH5 is not made for VLOG and selfies... Get a Canon 70D at $800 for that and you'll be happy with the AF. People who spend $2k for the GH5 do it for the image quality and bit depth, they'll use manual focus (peaking) or lock AF anyway. (...)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z12yxly43ozispyw004ccziy2onatvfj2bw.1491808591358142

"V-Log works perfectly on mine. I dont like the stabilisation but the rest ist just wonderfull. even the AF is very good. its a prosumer camera so you have to choose settings. if you change the 225 focus modus to center you get better results as the rx100, i´m sure about that"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13bjzc4avn4ed3pn04cjbliwx3tjfzhiao

"I think its obvious you shot in the 225 mode and that the problem. the sony focuses whatever is in the center, you can do the same with the gh5 if you choose center focus"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU&lc=z13qfj1gjonqit2xo04ce1jyluqzyrl4ifc

"Just curious, you have a tablet on the table. Why dont you use the app to set the focus and have it set to a fixed point? I do that with the GH4 and works out great!"

 

Great post, Jon! Nice to read you :-)

I'd add

- When you have things at default, the sonys make afc look much better. Panasonic needs to center weight as the default!

- Try using 1-area af. Panasonic should probably label this as VIDEO FOCUS and have it as default or something for video shooting. That's if their AFC implementation of all the other settings are going to stay as flaky. 

- AFC is mostly flaky in most other settings. This will need firmware support. Why? Because the problem isn't with the hardware. Photos use AF and the GH5 is probably the fastest on the planet. AFC is the camera knowing when to make changes. Saying the AF is bad is missing the point about AFC. A lot of the discussions on youtube conflate afc into af inaccurately. 

- Matt is put down a bit by the commenters. But as I said above, the AF is extremely fast and matt was saying the truth. If you take photos you can see how fast it is. So the trouble is somewhere else in the afc process. At 3:29 iphondo says clearly that the AFS is extremely fast! It is faster for photos and videos. MUCH faster. But the AFC problems are not about speed. 

- A mistake is at 16:28 where the text of the instruction book is misunderstood. Granted the translation is not the best. It is actually just stating that with the two adjustments you can make to the af settings you can actually get them fighting each other if set to extremes in certain environments. It is not saying the AF is bad. iphondo makes this the reason for sending the camera back which is a bit silly. 

- Agree on the battery life, got myself a couple more batteries for 5 now. 

- And with regards to the stabilisation, 1) the x3000 uses the best floating lens-sensor on the market. Put ANY camera up against that please. 2) Weird looking sway for sure. I don't have the 12-35 but I'll try the same camera combo tomorrow. Fun! Hopefully I'll have the camera focussed correctly not at 30cm like in the video. Also going to compare the GX85 at some point. 

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14 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

I'd add

- When you have things at default, the sonys make afc look much better. Panasonic needs to center weight as the default!

- Try using 1-area af. Panasonic should probably label this as VIDEO FOCUS and have it as default or something for video shooting. That's if their AFC implementation of all the other settings are going to stay as flaky. 

- AFC is mostly flaky in most other settings. This will need firmware support. Why? Because the problem isn't with the hardware. Photos use AF and the GH5 is probably the fastest on the planet. AFC is the camera knowing when to make changes. Saying the AF is bad is missing the point about AFC. A lot of the discussions on youtube conflate afc into af inaccurately. 

- Matt is put down a bit by the commenters. But as I said above, the AF is extremely fast and matt was saying the truth. If you take photos you can see how fast it is. So the trouble is somewhere else in the afc process. At 3:29 iphondo says clearly that the AFS is extremely fast! It is faster for photos and videos. MUCH faster. But the AFC problems are not about speed. 

- A mistake is at 16:28 where the text of the instruction book is misunderstood. Granted the translation is not the best. It is actually just stating that with the two adjustments you can make to the af settings you can actually get them fighting each other if set to extremes in certain environments. It is not saying the AF is bad. iphondo makes this the reason for sending the camera back which is a bit silly. 

- Agree on the battery life, got myself a couple more batteries for 5 now. 

- And with regards to the stabilisation, 1) the x3000 uses the best floating lens-sensor on the market. Put ANY camera up against that please. 2) Weird looking sway for sure. I don't have the 12-35 but I'll try the same camera combo tomorrow. Fun! Hopefully I'll have the camera focussed correctly not at 30cm like in the video. Also going to compare the GX85 at some point. 

Thanks man! We'll follow it up...

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13 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

Actually I should say afc in photo mode is great. Daniel Cox just finishing a big test on it.

I still believe tap-to-focus is the key to settle down the remaining AF issues, even though, there will surely be a sweet spot for the settings to make it work out, if not always much more than the situations reported.

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8 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

The g85 had that weird jerky motion with ibis that they "fixed" with a firmware. It's rearing its head with the gh5? Af is dodgy and this reviewer says ibis is questionable as well. I wonder if it can do simple slow handheld pans or tilts with the ibis without that drag and then jump to catch up motion. I would like to see the movement from a static shot to the move and then back to a static shot. If all this new tech has kinks I hope the 10bit color in v-log and 4k 60p is worth it at this price and that sensor.

There is absolutely no issue with doing pans with the GH5's IBIS and there is no jerk as I saw in the early G85 pre-firmware update. Man, how one guy, who doesn't bother to learn his camera, can start this stuff, amazing. Now the GH5's IBIS, that everyone prior had loved, is crap. He's a funny guy, but trust me, that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Yikes!

Here's a very quick video I slapped together the other day at the new Nassau Colliseum. This is all hand-held and the first video clip shows a pan. There was no jerk at the beginning of the clip, but it was extremely windy. Normally I'd just edit over with music, but this wasn't to be a masterpiece or a saved work by any measure. The point was to see how the GH5 did in a real world, low light situation. ISOs went up to about 1600 or a bit more in spots within the arena and where the face painting was being done. And just as a point of confession (Jon, are you listening?;)), I did add a bit of sharpening in post for the one shot you see here. I thought it was a bit soft, since the 14-140 was at max aperture in low light (another no no, going full zoom in low light). In looking at this on my OLED, I added too much sharpening and probably didn't have to add any at all.

 

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18 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

There is absolutely no issue with doing pans with the GH5's IBIS and there is no jerk as I saw in the early G85 pre-firmware update. Man, how one guy, who doesn't bother to learn his camera, can start this stuff, amazing. Now the GH5's IBIS, that everyone prior had loved, is crap. He's a funny guy, but trust me, that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Yikes!

Here's a very quick video I slapped together the other day at the new Nassau Colliseum. This is all hand-held and the first video clip shows a pan. There was no jerk at the beginning of the clip, but it was extremely windy. Normally I'd just edit over with music, but this wasn't to be a masterpiece or a saved work by any measure. The point was to see how the GH5 did in a real world, low light situation. ISOs went up to about 1600 or a bit more in spots within the arena and where the face painting was being done. And just as a point of confession (Jon, are you listening?;)), I did add a bit of sharpening in post for the one shot you see here. I thought it was a bit soft, since the 14-140 was at max aperture in low light (another no no, going full zoom in low light). In looking at this on my OLED, I added too much sharpening and probably didn't have to add any at all.

 

Looks fine to me, especially with all that wind.The little boy at the end looks pretty worried. :) 

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2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Looks fine to me, especially with all that wind.The little boy at the end looks pretty worried. :) 

Thanks, Jon. I was laughing at that too, Jon! He wanted no part of the face painting and only submitted to hand painting. Pretty funny.

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And Jon, you're terrified of new cameras too! JK. 

Actually I just recalled when we had our son do the face painting thing. He was 5, but when he saw his face in the mirror, he got hysterical crying. My wife and I did our best to not show him we were laughing. 

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8 hours ago, Ken Ross said:

There is absolutely no issue with doing pans with the GH5's IBIS and there is no jerk as I saw in the early G85 pre-firmware update. Man, how one guy, who doesn't bother to learn his camera, can start this stuff, amazing. Now the GH5's IBIS, that everyone prior had loved, is crap. He's a funny guy, but trust me, that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Yikes!

Here's a very quick video I slapped together the other day at the new Nassau Colliseum. This is all hand-held and the first video clip shows a pan. There was no jerk at the beginning of the clip, but it was extremely windy. Normally I'd just edit over with music, but this wasn't to be a masterpiece or a saved work by any measure. The point was to see how the GH5 did in a real world, low light situation. ISOs went up to about 1600 or a bit more in spots within the arena and where the face painting was being done. And just as a point of confession (Jon, are you listening?;)), I did add a bit of sharpening in post for the one shot you see here. I thought it was a bit soft, since the 14-140 was at max aperture in low light (another no no, going full zoom in low light). In looking at this on my OLED, I added too much sharpening and probably didn't have to add any at all.

 

Appreciate you sharing this but I still see the jerky movement in the first slow wide pan. You say it's the wind, but I noticed this before on slower pans with ibis on, so until someone posts something with slow pan starting with a static shot and ending with one, I will hold off forming an opinion about this. I think the handheld steady shots is enough to consider the camera. Although I also remember people complaining about micro jitters with some of their lenses. It's hard to keep track of the state of old and new issues. I hope they sorted it out, because I would like to pick one up as we find out what the 10 bit offers in a color grade. Again, thanks for taking the time to share your footage.

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